Date   

Re: Too low ACTH?

Maria Duran
 

Yes that was the case.

Thank you Sherry!
--
María Durán Navarro 
Dec 2017
Madrid (Spain)

Plutón´s Case History
Plutón´s Photo Album
_._,_._,_


Re: Solaro; IR/EMS help

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Even so, when I couldn't feel ribs for the life of me on my 15.1 guy, the weight tape was giving me ~1100lbs and the Carroll-Huntington estimate was about 1060 lbs.  Not saying they are the same (my boy has a very large rib cage that distorts the weight tape compared to a smaller boned horse), but that's just my main point of reference and when I look at your photo I just don't see the obese signs all that strongly (it is only one photo though, and probably a lot easier for you to see in person...could you post front and rear views as well?). 

Also keep in mind if he is IR, the fat pads cannot be used to judge body score, so make sure you are using other parts of the body to make that determination (ribs and topline for example), especially as he starts to lose weight.  My horse is finally down to a BCS of 4.5 (ribs visible when moving/flexing and easily felt) and a weight-tape estimate of 910 lbs, but he STILL has fat pads in a couple places (behind shoulder and on either side of the tail head) that are a bit deceiving.  Its seeing his ribs that gives the best estimate for him.  The fat pads are smaller than before but they are still there.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History  
Shaku's Photo Album   


Re: suggestions in getting insulin down

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Vicky,

The first thing that jumps out at me is that he's being more hay than he should be for his weight.  For an ideal weight of 975 you should be feeding 19.5 pounds per day total including hay and Stabul 1.  So it may not seem like much, but that .5 to 5.5 pound over what he needs per day could be effecting him.  He might also benefit from a trial of metformin if you haven't tried it before (given how detailed your case history is I would think you have not).  Having said that I'm not sure if there's a relation between the EPM and a rise in insulin but I could see that happening.  Hopefully Dr. Kellon will be able to speak more to that.




Re: Compounded Pergolide instead of Prascend

ferne fedeli
 

Kirsten, don't you mean to say to get the Pergolide in CAPSULE form, not tablet.  I don't even think Compounded comes in tablet form...
--

Ferne Fedeli  Magic & Jack   2007

No. California
Case History

 

 


Re: Need help for my Haflinger mare with Laminitis

Lorna Cane
 

Hi Kathy,

It is overwhelming,for sure.
But lots of people have had success attacking the situation in small time bites,as they arise.....half an hour here,half an hour there. Choose  most important things first.
Pretty soon the picture begins to take shape, and you haven't had to put it off until you can find several hours together. Can be less daunting.
The case history isn't an all or nothing deal, so you can add information as time allows.This gives the volunteers a chance to read at least some of your details,in order to give you a leg up.
Just a thought.

--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


Re: Excessive drinking and urination

Cindy Giovanetti
 

Dr. Kellon,
 
Is there any blood or urine test I should request to help me understand why Oden is drinking, eating salt, and urinating excessively?  Obviously ACTH, but anything else?

Could this possibly be related to the toe dragging?


suggestions in getting insulin down

vicky monen
 

Hi there,
I just uploaded my updated H/P, and have uploaded hoof xrays.  I got some great suggestions for trimming by Dr. Kellon under the hoof page. 

I Just got back Samsons insulin results today.  We only ran insulin to see if it was changing since the last time after the hay change, I did not do a full blood panel with ACTH this time. 

His insulin is not dropping as I thought it would with the hay changes. He was at 80 and now is at 74.

I feel at a loss about what more to do with the insulin being high.  I feel like for years it has been somewhat maintained.  I am not sure what more to do to get the insulin down.  He gets hay in slow feed nets and no grass whatsoever.  He doesnt get much Stabul 1 grain, enough to make him eat his supplements. He is exercised 3-4 days a week depending on weather. 

Should I add more prascend?  He is at 3/4 of a pill a day.  

He is once again being treated for EPM with 3 months of decoqinate powder and a 14 day supply of levamisole. 

He is lame on the right front at the trot, which hopefully with the trim suggestions that will get better.  He is still off on the hind end but that has been suspected to be from the EPM.  

Please let me know if you have any suggestions about getting the insulin back down. 

Thanks, 
--
Vicky Monen and Samson

Aug 2015, Alpharetta Ga.

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=1226

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Vicky%20and%20Samson


APF Pro 1x or 2x per day?

Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 

Hi all, I have been reading lots about APF lately and having both horses on the original formula and then canged last week to the pro formula and now have it on autoship because the veil is still present to some.extent in both horses and increasing doses to 6ml 2x per day for about 10 days now. I am wondering if I should be trying 10 ml one time per day to see better effect? What are others experiences? 

Thanks Nanxy
--
Nancy and Vinnie and Summer
Oakley, Ca
Joined Nov 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245855

Summer
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie/Summer 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=249104


Re: Solaro; IR/EMS help

Jill Winans
 

Kristen,

I'll definitely follow the alternate method, thank you. (He's right at the outer-limit of the weight tape, which is over 1300 lbs.)  Unfortunately, the pic doesn't adequately show the fat pads behind the shoulder, over the loin and back, at the dock, and good luck finding a rib!  I'm less concerned about the number than I am about what I see on the body.
--
Jill
New Mexico
2017
Solaro case history:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jill%20and%20Solaro
Solaro photo album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=255403

 

 


Re: Solaro; IR/EMS help

Jill Winans
 

Dr Kellon:

  • Could you please walk us through a typical day? How many feedings?  Fed 3x/day (below), all horses out together after feeding morning and noon; Solaro out alone on ~3/4 ac dry lot overnight, ride early evenings.  He lives on our property and we're the only ones feeding.  
  • Times? Hay per feeding? How long to finish each feeding?
    • 6:30 a.m.:  5 lbs hay & 1 lb beet pulp/supps, finished w/i ~1hr+
    • 12:30:  5 lbs hay, finished w/i ~1hr+
    • 6:30 p.m.:  10 lbs hay and 1 lb beet pulp/supps; finished w/i ~2 hrs
  • Could someone else be feeding him? No.
--
Jill
New Mexico
2017
Solaro case history:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jill%20and%20Solaro
Solaro photo album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=255403

 

 


Re: APF Primer for Newbies

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Diann,

Glad you found your way here.  The thing about APF is that the amount needed can vary.  If you do a search on "APF+dosage" in the messages at https://ecir.groups.io there are 405 messages and not all of them are going to be relevant, but a quick glance through shows most people start APF and see a difference within 2 - 3 days.

Some of the more relevant messages that may help you:




Re: Length of laminitis

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Shera,

Have you had her bloodwork updated since the last entry in her CH?  At those levels I'd think she'd be a candidate for Metformin as a trial.  Any idea on her current weight?  Is she still in the backwards shoes?   Given that the hay is 9% ESC + starch I would definitely be soaking it as even though it's below 10% it may be too rich for her.  Also not sure what kind of pellets you're using as a carrier but I'd see if you could find something without any alfalfa or rice bran in it for the same reason.  That includes the Platinum GI as that has rice bran in it, as well as the alfalfa treats if she's still getting those.  If you can get the ODTBC (sold in the US as Triple Crown naturals) or Stabul 1 to use as a carrier that would probably be better for her.

If you could get a full set of hoof pictures posted Lavinia may have some directions for the trim, but to me she looks like her toes are run forward, she has some flare and her heels are a bit underrun - all of which could be contributing to her not being as comfortable as she might be with a tighter trim.





Re: Need help for my Haflinger mare with Laminitis

Kathi.duvall@...
 

Thank you! I am working through all the recommendations here and want to get my horse’s profile done. It’s kind of overwhelming with all the information in this group so I need a large block of time to work on that but I plan on doing that this weekend. Having a full time job is rough when you want to be a full time care giver to your ailing four legged baby!
--
Kathi Duvall in MD 2019


Re: Need help for my Haflinger mare with Laminitis

Bev
 

Hi Kathi,
My Haflinger gelding came down with laminitis about 2.5 years ago. I found this group at that time and I swear this is what saved him. I followed the emergency diet immediately and have stayed on top of it to this day. He has not had any bouts of laminitis since there and is doing great today! So don't give up! Stick with this group and the recommended diets and protocol and hopefully your mare will stay as healthy as my Haffie is today.
--
- Bev and Majestic
May, 2017
Prescott, Arizona
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Bev%20and%20Majesttic 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6597


Re: Compounded Pergolide instead of Prascend

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Renee, you need to chose a compounding pharmacy (ideally one that other members recommend here) or ask your vet to chose one, and have a prescription sent to that pharmacy written out as detailed above.  Although your vet cannot legally prescribe compounded pergolide because Prascend is getting too expensive for you, you can tell your vet that your horses are difficult to get pills in to and it would be easier for you or barn staff to dose them reliably if you only had to give 1 higher strength (compounded) pill instead of multiple Prascend pills.  Make sure you get the pergolide in tablet form.  The liquid or chewable forms are not as stable and we do not recommend them.  It's also handy to keep some unexpired Prascend pills on hand for small dose increases, like prior to the seasonal rise or if you see worsening symptoms or elevated ACTH.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History  
Shaku's Photo Album   


Re: Solaro; IR/EMS help

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Hi Jill,

Has he actually been weighed?  I've been wondering where the 1300+ lb estimate came from.  At 15.2 and looking at the photo you posted I'm not sure why you're saying he's 1300+ because he doesn't look that heavy to me.

We do have instructions on estimating weight that is more accurate than a weight tape.   Its called the Cartoll-Huntington method and although it takes 2 people to measure the body length it might be worth trying it to see what number you get.

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/Case%20History%20Tools/Tools%20and%20How-To%20Help/Horse%20Weight%20Calculator.xlsx

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History  
Shaku's Photo Album   


Re: APF Primer for Newbies

HL's Mom
 

Hi-
My mare's been on Prascend for 3 years. I'm about to start giving her APF(didn't know about it until recently). My vet just had me increase her Prascend to 1.5 tablets. The mare's been on this dosage for about 3 weeks now & I thought her lethargy & depression was improving, but last night she seemed not herself. The weather's going up & down, so maybe this is all part of the "veil". This is all new to me.
I am confused about how much to give her. I've read anything from 6ml to 14 ml/day. She's about 1400 lbs (a Percheron cross). This will get very expensive very quickly! How long do they stay on APF, and can the dosage be changed as she improves? I can't find a simple explanation of all this.
I want her to be happy & healthy so I can continue to do lower level Dressage with her. She's 17 & otherwise fine, and I hope to be able to enjoy riding her for many years. Also, when should I get her retested? I've heard not until the end of November/ December.
Thanks all.

Diann
--
Diann  in VA 2020


Re: Star received her wings

Bendhorsetalk@...
 

Your story brings tears because I understand so completely your love for Star. The stakes are high when we have a fragile horse and love them so much. This group helps a lot, since we're clearly not alone with our special equine loves. Heal well...
--
Shera Felde, Central Oregon, 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Story%20and%20Shera
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=253720


Length of laminitis

Bendhorsetalk@...
 

Story went into laminitis the end of June, and its been her worst episode (4th). I am following vet, farrier, and Dr. Kellon's directions while also soaking hay. Sometimes I  see her trotting for a bit, but overall she still looks pained and moves in a stilted way. She's on Equioxx and her Gabapentin is about to run out. Is this length of pain normal or is there something else I need to try?

Her 3 bouts in the past never took so long to heal and I am very worried. Still not forcing exercise because I am never sure how comfortable she is. She is definitely walking more around the paradise track.

Thank you.
--
Shera Felde, Central Oregon, 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Story%20and%20Shera
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=253720


Re: Star received her wings

 

Dr. Kellon - Thank you for the article on Vestibular Disease.  This is exactly what happened to my mare.  Now I have an answer as to what happened to her.  

--
Jean and Amber (over the bridge)

Buster and Nikki

South Carolina

August 2004

NRCPlus 0412; CIR 0813, 1211; NAT 0612

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Gloria%20and%20Amber

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