Date   

Re: Request for help for Storm

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Heather,

The fact that you noted she was slow to shed, pot bellied and ribby make me wonder if she's one of those horses that doesn't test as PPID but responds to pergolide.  As far as the lameness there are a lot of factors at play for her - it could have nothing to do with PPID/IR or that could be just one element of what's going on with her.




Re: 2 months after initial laminitis episode

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Phyllis,

If she's not any worse after being out I'd be inclined to continue allowing her out to move around.  It sounds like she's self regulating at this point which is a good thing. 




Prascend Dosage during Fall Rise

Angie
 

My horse Jacob was diagnosed with PPID in August 2020.  His symptoms were lethargy, excessive drinking of water and peeing, and a bit of a pot belly. He started Prascend September 7 at .5 mg for two weeks, then 1 mg. He adjusted fine to the meds. I have adjusted his diet per the ecir recommendations although it wasn't much of a change from what he was eating. I noticed a very slight improvement on the water/peeing issue and he seemed a bit brighter early October but it was brief. He's back to lethargy and peeing a lot. I'm guessing this is due to the Fall rise and the 1 mg may not be quite enough during this season. My vet didn't want to recheck ACTH until late Fall or in the Spring.  Should I increase the Prascend for the next month or so to see if that helps? Or will it be too hard to tell if its working if the Fall rise will be declining soon? 
--
Angie
October 2020, Mendocino County, CA

Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Angie%20and%20Jacob
Jacob's Photo Album:

 


Re: Biotin Interference With Hormonal Assay

LJ Friedman
 

i Read the study on bio tin interference. I noticed the  ladies on biotin,and we’re taking a very high doses. Is 20 mg for a horse a high enough dose to cause interference?  thanks 
--
LJ Friedman  Nov 2014 Vista,   Northern  San Diego, CA

Jesse and majestic ‘s Case History 
Jesse's Photos

 


Symptoms vs blood work

Tracy
 

I have a question.  This year mid July I noticed Salsa was a little tender footed.  This matched with what I picked up during similar time in 2019 - but he'd been out on the pasture some since we were building our barn in 2019.  Then in mid-late September I noticed he was drinking more (lasted about two weeks).  He is also a little too woolly-coated for this time of year already (he has always, always got his winter coat super early since I have had him when he was 8 years old). That winter coat started coming in around his shoulders/neck early September.

I think next year he may need extra Prascend for the seasonal rise based on symptoms.  His last blood work - from earlier this month was at 29.2 (from Cornell).  Not bad for the rise - but given what I'm observing - is increasing his Prascend next year maybe early July to get ahead of the rise - a good idea/plan?
Thanks!

--
Tracy and Salsa (1999 model year Paso Fino)
Middle TN USA, September 2019
Case History  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Tracy%20and%20Salsa
Photos https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=95827


Re: Update on Vinnie

Buzz
 


You and Vinnie are an inspiration! This group is awesome with knowledge, support and compassion!!  What a gift!!! So happy for you as it's a huge journey!
Marsha and Dame - Buzzy TN 2019

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Marsha%20and%20Dame%20-%20Buzzy


Re: Request for help for Storm

hdavis
 

Hi Kirsten,

Thanks for replying.  As for physical differences in Storm’s appearance I would say her pot bellied and somewhat ribby appearance got better. She never has had any IR fat pads or filled with eye orbits and if anything her eye orbitals have always been very sunken in.  She also seemed to have less periods of loose manure.

She is off grass and has been on tested low sugar and starch hay for almost 2 years.  I can’t soak hay where I live and not possible in these temps with no heater area to do so.  So unfortunately not an option.  I have tried this in the past with her when it was not as cold and it didn’t seem to make any difference to her lameness. Perhaps she is dealing with other issues such as poor healing or scar tissues in her DDFT too? Not sure.

If I was to take her of prascend do u slowly wean her off? Just seems weird as I me that her insulin has not changed that much since the spring to the summer so thought maybe something else was driving it up.



From: main@ECIR.groups.io <main@ECIR.groups.io> on behalf of Kirsten Rasmussen <kirstenrasmussen3@...>
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2020 8:27:15 AM
To: main@ECIR.groups.io <main@ECIR.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ECIR] Request for help for Storm
 
Hi Heather,

Your Case History states that Storm's body conditiom improved when you started Prascend.  What kind of improvements did you see?  Are any of them improvements to signs of PPID, or just to EMS/IR?  If not, and given that her insulin isn't lower on it, I personally don't think it's worth continuing.

You have removed her from grass completely but have you been soaking her hay?  I know my horse gets sore in the spring (not the fall thankfully) and his hooves generally lose all the improvements we will have made over the winter.  Now that this has happened 3 years in a row I've learned it's not enough to feed him 1.5% ideal BW in low sugar hay, and that his hay really must be soaked at that time of year, too.  (He actually does best if I soak it all summer, too).  His hoof pain coincides with things greening up, usually mid-April here, even though he is on a truly dry lot and does not get any grass other than maybe the odd blade or two that pops up before I see them.   I think there is a hormonal component that increases his insulin in mid-April, although I've yet to see anything officially mentioned here (other than the finding that the spring equinox can also affect ACTH in PPID horses, which Shaku is not). 

Beyond that, maybe trying her on invocana?

If she can manage regular exercise before the spring and fall episodes, then maybe that could help prevent them.

I'm not sure what else to suggest for Storm.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History  
Shaku's Photo Album   


--
Heather
August 5, 2017, Brandon, Manitoba, Canada

Riosa 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Heather%20and%20Riosa

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=8819 


Storm

Case History


 




Re: 2 months after initial laminitis episode

W.phyllis60@...
 

Hi Sherry,
Using the weight calculator I came up with 1251 as her weight. Currently I suspect her body score is somewhere between 5 and 6, probably closer to 6.
i have been putting her out on the sand arena for the last couple days. She is out for about 3 hours a day while my horse is on pasture. She seems fine when walking in a straight line but occasionally (not always) seems to favor the right front when she turns. And you were right, she does a little bucking and then mostly walks around. Do you think it’s ok for me to continue letting her out?
Thanks!
--
Phyllis W in OH 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Phyllis%20and%20Patches
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=255382&p=Created,,,20,2,0,0


Re: Excessive drinking and urination

Cindy Giovanetti
 

If ever there was a horse who would eat a salt block out of boredom and oral fixation, it would be Oden. He is unbelievably mouthy. He needs something in his mouth all the time. The limited diet has been very hard on him.

I’m trying the limited salt.

Cindy

--
Cindy, Oden, and Eeyore, North Texas
On ECIR protocol since 2/19
https://www.facebook.com/LifeWithOden/
History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Cindy%20and%20Oden
Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=91125


Re: Excessive drinking and urination

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Cindy,

Shaku was eating excessive salt, too.  He was licking it then running his teeth and lips over a metal gate in the pole barn.  After the gate started to rust from the salt and saliva I realized this could be a source of metals in his diet.  So I moved his free salt to the back of the paddock on a wood post; it is lasting much longer.  He was doing it out of boredom.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History  
Shaku's Photo Album   


Re: Compounded Pergolide instead of Prascend

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Yes, thank you Ferne!!

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History  
Shaku's Photo Album   


Re: need to place a uckele order/ dr kellon

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

With exercise the muscle becomes less reliant on insulin for glucose uptake. This persists for about 24 hours after exercise but starts to sharply decline after the first hour. In that golden period the muscle and liver will soak up glucose to replenish glycogen. Low glycogen stores are a common cause of low energy and reduced exercise tolerance when feeding a low S/S diet.  Just make sure you only feed it in that time interval.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: High ACTH for two mini horses, asking input on Vet's rec to start on Prascend

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Hi Lynn, I would get them titrated up to the prescribed dose then retest after 3-4 weeks.  If their ACTH is still unusually elevated you'll have good justification for asking your vet to increase the prescription.  As Sherry said, it's true that it's not the size of the horse that determines an equine's response to pergolide, so often higher doses are needed.  But the instructions on the Prascend packet do say to dose by body weight, so it seems like most vets recommend starting off minis with half the standard starting dose.  It might be enough but you won't be sure without follow-up bloodwork.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History  
Shaku's Photo Album   


Re: Update on Vinnie

Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 

Thank you so much Bobbie!! Yes there were days when at my wits end I would just come to this site and read, read, read.  It inspired me to keep trying and then when I got stuck I reached out for help. And everyone's help and stories inspired me even more.  And the knowledge imparted to me here is what lead me to finally make a needed change. In our case the trim was holding back the healing process. So I made a tough decision but necessary change,  and once the trim was right all.the other work we had done wirh diagnosis and.diet fell into place.

Xoxo to all!!

I cant wait to find what adventurs the rest of our journey holds.

--
Nancy and Vinnie and Summer
Oakley, Ca
Joined Nov 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245855

Summer
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie/Summer 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=249104


Re: Update on Vinnie

Bobbie Day
 

Well that didn’t go as planned 🤔
What I said was basically whoo, hoo ! That’s amazing and he just looks so proud of himself! This should be a real inspiration to those struggling. It’s one thing to ask for help (as all of us have) but another to actually spend not only our hard earned money but countless hours, days, months of hard work, reading, trimming, etc. to get this result.
IT CAN BE DONE ❤️ And our furry family members and friends deserve nothing less.
Good Job Nancy and Vinnie 👍


--
Bobbie and Desi
NRC March 2020
Utah, Nov 2018

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Bobbie%20and%20Desi

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78821


Re: Requesting assistance interpreting insulin/glucose results

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

The only thing you can assume is your current management is keeping Amika in normal ranges for insulin and glucose. That's a good thing but doesn't mean she would continue to have normal levels if you changed things.

There's also always a small but real possibility of lab error but for now just stay the course. You could double check her insulin next time you test her brother.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Requesting assistance interpreting insulin/glucose results

Hilary McGregor
 

Thank you so much for your responses, Dr. Kellon! I really appreciate this. We have been assuming both horses are EMS/IR since summer 2019. Been managing them almost the same since, although Amika has had several illness/injuries that resulted in different management for short periods of time.

Mare is 7 years, gelding is 9 years. They are full siblings. I'm quite surprised to learn that one is IR and the other is not. Both have similar body condition, cresty necks, fat pads on shoulders, puffy eye pockets.

I'm wondering if it is safe for me to feel relieved that Amika is not IR! Could it be a mistake? I think I'm just so surprised.
  
--
Hilary and Amika
Prince George, BC, Canada
Joined July 2019
Amika's Case History Folder
Amika's Photos Folder


Re: Biotin Interference With Hormonal Assay

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

ACTH, insulin and T4 are hormones.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Requesting assistance interpreting insulin/glucose results

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Yes and yes!

Management can't cause EMS. The risk/tendency is genetic.  However, proper management can keep insulin down - and vice versa.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Biotin Interference With Hormonal Assay

Ronelle
 

This might be a dumb question, but are we checking hormone levels when we test for PPID/IR?  I never thought about it before I saw Dr Kellon's post.
--
Ronelle and Yoyo
2015 Bend, Or, US

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