Date   

Re: Prascend and coat growth

Tracy
 

This is all interesting.  Salsa has been on Prascend now for a year.
I have pix of him darn close to one year to the date in my photo link below.  He looks better this year in September - but I think not 'optimal'.
He has always started a winter coat very early (had him since he was 8).  I posted about symptoms vs bloodwork recently b/c even though ACTH early this month from Cornell was at an acceptable level (especially for around the height of the rise) - I've noticed certain symptoms at predictable times last year and this year (July and September to be exact).
Next year I'm going to increase the Prascend before mid July for the rise and see if he is less "footy" in July and then in September avoids a week or so of increased thirst/urination and a delay of that winter coat coming in.

Salsa may fit in "lab range normal" - but I don't think he is "optimal".  Those are two different things.

--
Tracy and Salsa (1999 model year Paso Fino)
Middle TN USA, September 2019
Case History  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Tracy%20and%20Salsa
Photos https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=95827


Re: Insulin Testing - Important Update

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

I asked Dr. Barbara Schanbacher from Cornell about sample type interference in assays and her reply is below:

"The assay used for this paper was the Immulite 1000 chemiluminescent insulin assay. This assay states it does not work on EDTA samples in the package insert. We do not use it because the assay curve has very poor sensitivity and about 15% of equine samples tested have wildly discordant results compared to the RIA we use. They are unfortunately stuck with this assay over in Australia and New Zealand as one of the better options because they can't get many of the assays available in the US.
 
Insulin is stable in serum and EDTA and heparin plasma in the RIA we use for 1 week on cells, 2 weeks in the fridge and > 5 years in the freezer and the results are comparable for all 3 sample types. "

So, unless the lab is using a CIA assay (Immulite most often mentioned in equine papers), there shouldn't be a problem at least with the Millipore brand assays used by Cornell, Guelph, Michigan State, BET Labs.  For other labs you will need to find out the type of assay being used.

--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Initial Markup Request Please!

Philippa
 

I have added updated photos of Abraham's front hooves to my photo album for mark ups please. The green & pink on the hooves is from thrush treatment. He is still a bit tender on the left front hoof. I haven't added updated photos of his hind hooves as they haven't really changed from August. Thanks.
--
Philippa New Zealand 2020
Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Philippa%20&%20Abraham  ;
Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=253721 ;


Re: Acorns

 

When I had domestic turkeys, I would have taken your leftovers.  They live acorns.  And have incredible personalities.

--
Gail Russell 8/30/2008

 

 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Gail%20and%20Brother%20-%20Odin%20-%20Decaffe%20%20-Gunthar .


Re: organic iron and low sugar

Eva
 

Dr K 

yes exactly!  Sometimes when I hear these crazy things and still feel less than 100% confident I need to be reassured. Glad to know my logical mind is functioning!!  Also disappointing that there is a platform for misinformation!! 

--
Eva and Anske
October 2017 Corvallis OR
Case History Anske 2009 Friesian Mare https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Eva%20and%20Anske


Re: Acorns

Frances C.
 

Oh! the acorns are fallin' on me head
I feel my face is gettin' red
Spending hours every day
Pickin' up the little buggers
Buckets an' buckets o' the little buggers
Horses all penned up
Beggin me to turn em loose
So they can gobble gobble up
All the little buggers that I missed.
ANYONE INTERESTED IN BUYING A CUTE LITTLE FARM - WILL SELL CHEAP
--
- Frances C.
December 2017, Washington & California
Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Frances%20and%20Phoenix
Phoenix's Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=12382


Re: Acorns

Candice Piraino
 

HI Angie!

Would like to just expand on this topic since I had JUST asked Dr. K this last week. I live in central Florida and my farm has LOTS of live oak trees and water oaks. Too many to count actually. 

Well, my PPID & IR gelding came up lame one day last week all of the sudden. I changed NOTHING! And he is on a tightly balanced diet and a track system that consists of sand and dirt, with no access to grass. 

The only change was the acorns were falling!!!!!! And I was watching my herd (3 equines) and of course they were going around the track eating ALL the acorns they access to!!!!!! URGHHHHHH!!!!!!!

Take care to mark off access to the acorns as best you can. My gelding is finally no longer lame/footsore since I rearranged some of my track and blocked off access to areas.

Others have mentioned to use a backpack blower and blow the acorns away and to use a wire muzzle.
--

Candice 

Primary Response Team

September 2018, Summerfield, FL

Shark's Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Candice%20and%20Shark

Shark's Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=71507 

PHCP Barefoot Trimmer @ www.arkhavenfarm.com

 


Re: Willow test results, x-rays and exercise recommendation

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

My husband's (non-horseman) opinion is that Shaku "looks like a horse now"!  That's a pretty good testament to how the changes we've made have benefited Shaku.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History  
Shaku's Photo Album   


Re: Appetite veil? Lameness #Thyro-L

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

I'll just add that as long as she is eating at least 1.5% of her body weight in hay, I would not worry about the supressed appetite just yet.  If it's due to the pergolide, it will pass on its own once she gets used to it, and the dose is adequate.  If she goes off hay, too, then I would stop pergolide, order APF, and try again after a few days of APF administration. 

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History  
Shaku's Photo Album   


Re: Appetite veil? Lameness #Thyro-L

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Renee,

APF is Advanced Protection Formula, created by Auburn Labs:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/APF/APF%20Sources.pdf

It is useful when starting a horse on pergolide, or increasing the dose, if the horse has exagerated signs of the pergolide veil like reduced appetite.  Not all horses need it but it really makes a difference in those that do.   Lots of recent discussions on what type of APF to give and how much so if you can search "APF" and look at the recent posts that will get you started.

Thyro-L boosts weight loss initially because it initially creates a hyperthyroid state, but that effect wears off as the horse's thyroid ramps down in response.  Then, the Thyro-L has to be weaned off gradually to give the thyroid time to adjust and ramp back up.  Long-term weight control is about diet, and exercise if they are sound.

It is really hard for us to offer any good advise without a case history.  We cannot keep your horses, their diets, diagnoses and medications straight just from reading your posts, which means you won't get good advice because the time required to try and understand their management is just too much for a volunteer.  Can you borrow a computer for a while to get the case histories done?   Not sure if you have access to computers at a local library, but usually that's an option.

Good luck with the Case Histories! 

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History  
Shaku's Photo Album   


Re: Insulin Testing

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Aunna,

CLIA is an immunoassay just like RIA but with a different indicator (light emission vs radioactivity).  CLIA is reported to give lower results than RIA https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28124389/ . I don't know what assay Idexx uses (have asked but didn't get an answer). That paper is less than a year old so  maybe Cornell hasn't been investigated further yet; don't know but  I'll ask! They use a Millipore human RIA.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Appetite veil? Lameness #Thyro-L

renee lefthand
 


-- I don't know what APF is must of missed it on this page there alot going.on ....on this site apologies hard to navigate till one gets used to it esp with a phone I have no computer at home ....i also got her devils claw that joint hemp stuff she won't eat it either recommend from Dr kellon 
Renee SD 2020


Re: Appetite veil? Lameness #Thyro-L

renee lefthand
 


-- yes i have changes her diet she is too sore to exercise i figured it was not a miracle drug i has a hirae on it for years from an old school vet and before much was known i decided to take him off of it after years and he is fine but has since been diagnosed with cushings but is doing quite well compared to.my mare whi was recently diagnosed and quite lame took off grain gets maybe 12 ounce of stabul one per day for some butte or her pill or bite less pellets ....otherwise hay that was tested i do not know her weight the vet she could.loose some weight she was being kind ....had xrays done blood work done cushinhs and IR September....was getring better and now lame again and does not eat any grain couple bites ....i just was wondering if some.thyroid L would help her loose little weight nkt long term or as a dietary only answer thank u 
Renee SD 2020


Re: organic iron and low sugar

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Eva,

On the iron claim - pure nonsense.  Science fiction.  Organic iron is simply iron delivered in an organic framework, like hemoglobin or iron gluconate. It's absorbed by different mechanisms so doesn't compete in the intestinal tract. The iron itself is the same whether in an organic or inorganic compound.  The iron will be stripped away from the organic carrier to become elemental iron - just like the iron from inorganic compounds. No difference. No displacement.

Ditto for the sugar statement. No organism has a nutritional requirement for sugar or any other carbohydrate. Not frogs, not people, not horses. We can all synthesize all the glucose we need from other substances. The horse's  major source of calories is fermentation of fiber and any other form of carbohydrate in the large intestine. Starvation = insufficient calories (and protein).  DE of hay is from both simple and complex carbohydrates. Both are sources of calories.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Insulin Testing

Eva
 

LJ - as a former IDEXX manager I would recommend sending both the RTT and GTT with the date, time, name on each tube.  The lab will select the most appropriate sample.  They could even run both if needed.
--
Eva and Anske
October 2017 Corvallis OR
Case History Anske 2009 Friesian Mare https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Eva%20and%20Anske


organic iron and low sugar

Eva
 

I was listening to a posdcast featuring the daughter of RIva's Remedies - Elisha Edwards.  Elisha is a EMS/IR nutritionist per her website.  She said in the podcast that she is using organic iron to displace inorganic iron in overload horses.  This makes no sense to my pharmacist mind - does anyone have any other feelings about this or any direct experience with what shes offering?

On a separate note - on another podcast the vet host said "low sugar hay starves horses" - totally not true right?  I was disappointed in her PPID review.... 

happy to post the links if anyone wants them
--
Eva and Anske - IR
October 2017 Corvallis OR
Case History Anske 2009 Friesian Mare https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Eva%20and%20Anske


Re: Willow test results, x-rays and exercise recommendation

Lorna Cane
 

It's a neverending story,Pat.
But  lovely when, down the line, people look at Willow, and ask you what you've been doing, she's  looking so good . So happy.


--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


Re: Acorns

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Dr Kellon's exact words were "Acorns are also very, very high starch and can cause laminitis in a susceptible horse."

It has also been discussed in the group, if you do a search for "acorn", for example this comes up: 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/243076

-- 
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History  
Shaku's Photo Album   


Re: Willow test results, x-rays and exercise recommendation

Pat
 

Thanks for the support. I will remember your words the next time someone questions me. And the next time... and the next time....  (-:
--
Pat
August 2020
Metro Vancouver BC Canada
Case: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Pat%20and%20Willow
Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=253325


Re: Willow test results, x-rays and exercise recommendation

Pat
 

I see - I named it wrong. the 09-26 is meant to be 10-26. Will rename or upload.
--
Pat
August 2020
Metro Vancouver BC Canada
Case: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Pat%20and%20Willow
Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=253325

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