Date   

Re: Off Feed Again

 

Hi Marsha,
I’m puzzling about the continuing increases in APF you are giving Dame to manage her veil .  I’m not familiar with this approach.  Could you fill me in a bit on how you got there, please, so I can learn from it too?  It may not be the veil that she is experiencing but instead a need for more pergolide.  According to her Case History, it’s been a month since you last increased her pergolide – the veil should have passed by now and definitely would not be coming and going.  When do you plan to do your next ACTH test?  Your post says you increased Prascend ten days ago so I’m not sure what happened in the meantime.  

if there’s a time of day when the others are all in, I would focus on feeding her then when she‘s not as distracted.  If you increase the amount of soaked ODTBC cubes you give her, does she eat them, given plenty of time?   Posting photos would be good.  1100# does not suggest skinny 15.2 h TB to me but maybe.


My gut feeling is that increasing the amount APF will not help.  I would probably continue giving her an amount you feel comfortable giving until the rise has completely passed, you’ve retested and made any appropriate changes in pergolide dosage.  As pergolide dose increases made during the rise don’t seem to be as effective as at other times of year, as the rise disappears, it may be more likely that she will begin feeling the effects of the pergolide you are giving her and might need the APF.  However, she would have to be very sensitive indeed as that increase in pergolide effectiveness would be extremely gradual as we head into December.

--

Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Changed to Chasteberry decrease pergolide effects?

Joy V
 

"I would stop the Chastetree berry because there is always the potential for it to decrease pergolide effects."



Dr. Kellon, is this only a possibility or is it inevitable?  I ask because I recently added chasteberry to my horse's supplements (with a lovely, positive effect) but I don't want to screw up the effects of the Prascend.  His ACTH is very well controlled with one pill at this point (tested).  Thanks in advance for any info.




--
Joy and Willie (PPID/IR)
Nevada County, CA - 2019

Case history:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Joy%20and%20Willie
Willie's photo album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=242526


Re: Off Feed Again

Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 

Marsha, I was struggling with the veil with both of mine too but a suggestion I tried is splitting up when I gave APF Pro and prascend.  I was giving them both midday with a second dose of apf pro at night.

I changed to give 10 ml of apf pro one time per day at about 11am ad then they get prascend at 7pm at night with their nighttime hay and mash and this is what finally worked for my mare.

I managed to get my gelding on the full dose of praacend this way as well..still working on the right dose of Apf for him 10 ml one time per day may not be quite enough. He is on day 5 of his full dose of prascend and he was a little slower eating his mash today than he had been si I may go up with 12ml of apf pro and then titrate down.

Hope this helps:)
--
Nancy and Vinnie and Summer
Oakley, Ca
Joined Nov 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245855

Summer
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie/Summer 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=249104


Re: Appetite veil? Lameness #Thyro-L

Bobbie Day
 

Renee
I have fed those supplements for quite some time and I can tell you my mare probably wouldn’t be here without them.
I would suggest you start out slow, maybe a touch of them to start. I actually soak the Phyto-quench pellets and add that to her BP and Stabul one pellets, the CBD pellets she will now eat in another handful of SO. I feed her twice a day , she gets PQ and extra DC in the am then the CBD in the pm to help her at night. I think if you start out with small amounts they will start accepting them. There’s also a file called “ picky eaters “ that has some good ideas.


--
Bobbie and Desi
NRC March 2020
Utah, Nov 2018

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Bobbie%20and%20Desi

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78821


Re: Thoughts on Seasonal PPID and What about CBD?

Anna Dolly
 

Thank you, Dr. Kellon,
I didn't realize that when people say 'seasonal' that it meant anything other than seasonal. 

--
Anna Dolly
Keyser, WV
Sept. 2020
Babe's Case History
Babe's Photo Album


Re: Insulin Testing - Important Update

riggslippert@...
 

Idexx says they use an RIA for equine insulin.  They couldn't tell me the brand without further investigation, but I can pursue if needed.
--
Aunna
October 2018
Oakland County, Michigan, USA
Cadet Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Aunna%20and%20Cadet
Ruger Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Aunna%20and%20Ruger

Cadet Photo Album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=84102




Re: organic iron and low sugar

Cindy Giovanetti
 

I listened to it too.  I’m always hopeful that someone will discover a magic bullet for us.  (LOL).  Unfortunately, she hasn’t.

 

Cindy


--
Cindy, Oden, and Eeyore, North Texas
On ECIR protocol since 2/19
https://www.facebook.com/LifeWithOden/
History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Cindy%20and%20Oden
Photos:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=91125


decreased water intake and invokana

LJ Friedman
 

Jesse has been switching around his water intake. Typically he drinks a ton especially after invokana tablet in the early evening. Today he drank almost nothing overnight. I’m watching to see how today goes. My question is, until I can figure this out ,would it make sense to stop the invokana for a few days if I know he’s not drinking enough water?
--
LJ Friedman  Nov 2014 Vista,   Northern  San Diego, CA

Jesse and majestic ‘s Case History 
Jesse's Photos

 


Off Feed Again

Buzz
 

We are still struggling with Dame. I finally have her up to 1mg prascend and 10ml APF PRO. Just been on that for 10 days. The past few days she has shown signs of the vail and off her feed again and dropping wt. Such a delicate balance! Should I just keep increasing the APF? She is more interested in the other horses out in the field than she is eating. My vet wanted her on TC Sr, beet pulp and ODTB cubes. She felt the molasses in the TC Sr was not as important as getting wt on her. I make a slurry out of the TC Sr and that gets her to eat some, but still off. She cannot eat hay. I have to soak everything, very poor teeth issues that have been addressed with equine dentist.  She also gets 2000iu Vit E, absorb all, 8 oz TC flax seed, J herb and Uckele Gut. I know I need to update her CH and will do that asap. Thank you for your help in advance. Without this groups help I would be lost!!

--
Marsha and Dame - Buzzy TN 2019

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Marsha%20and%20Dame%20-%20Buzzy


Re: Initial Markup Request Please!

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Philippa,

Nice start on getting the toes backed up but there is more that can be removed. Looks like you were also able to lower the heels and he appears to be standing on them, so another win.

Can you get a measurement of how deep his collateral grooves are? That will help gide how much more vertical depth there is to work with.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


Re: Thoughts on Seasonal PPID and What about CBD?

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

It's not that the PPID is seasonal - just exaggerated in the fall. If you want to know if your horse tests normal at other times of the year you will have to stop the pergolide and retest in 3 to 4 weeks.

 There is virtually no equine research on CBD, just individual reports at this time. However, there is no reason to think it would have metabolic effects in PPID or EMS.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Acorns

Angie
 

The wild turkeys and deer are busy eating the acorns and I rake them up twice a day to donate to local groups that rehabilitate wildlife and re-plant oak trees after the fires.

But there are still tons of them! They bounce off the barn roof and right into the paddock and my horses are like vacuum cleaners.  I’ll be glad when this is over.

--
Angie
October 2020, Mendocino County, CA

Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Angie%20and%20Jacob
Jacob's Photo Album:

 


Re: Insulin Testing - Important Update

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Those are different types of assays so I don't know the answer to your question. Also not sure if that assay has been validated for equine. It won't be affected by biotin though.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Thoughts on Seasonal PPID and What about CBD?

Anna Dolly
 

hi y'all,
Vet was out this morning to draw blood for Babe's first recheck- he's been on a half tab of Prascend for several weeks now. I told her about the AFP and I think she took a picture of the bottle to take with her. 
I asked this and didn't get an answer I could sink my teeth into, and maybe there isn't one yet- after all, we just did the blood draw, but how do we know if PPID is seasonal in a horse? Is it solely about the numbers?
She was happy with how much better he looks and seems to feel. She saw him at his worst, too.

Also, what about CBD for a horse? I have used CBD for several years for myself and know what it has done for me, and I'm not one to just buy into hype- but is it possible that this could assist him with relief of symptoms and/or boost metabolic function?
--
Anna Dolly
Keyser, WV
Sept. 2020
Babe's Case History
Babe's Photo Album


Re: Insulin Testing - Important Update

Rebecca and Joe
 

What about a Tosoh 360 AIA, test methodology is Fluorescence Enzyme Immunoassay. Is that a type of CIA? And if so if I'm understanding right are insulin results on that reliable as long as they are red or green top? Or would all results be innacurate?


--
Rebecca and Joe,  Lexington KY, 2020

Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Rebecca%20and%20Joe


Re: organic iron and low sugar

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Unfortunately, misinformation isn't hard to find - especially (but not exclusively) on "alternative" sites.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Prascend and coat growth

Tracy
 

This is all interesting.  Salsa has been on Prascend now for a year.
I have pix of him darn close to one year to the date in my photo link below.  He looks better this year in September - but I think not 'optimal'.
He has always started a winter coat very early (had him since he was 8).  I posted about symptoms vs bloodwork recently b/c even though ACTH early this month from Cornell was at an acceptable level (especially for around the height of the rise) - I've noticed certain symptoms at predictable times last year and this year (July and September to be exact).
Next year I'm going to increase the Prascend before mid July for the rise and see if he is less "footy" in July and then in September avoids a week or so of increased thirst/urination and a delay of that winter coat coming in.

Salsa may fit in "lab range normal" - but I don't think he is "optimal".  Those are two different things.

--
Tracy and Salsa (1999 model year Paso Fino)
Middle TN USA, September 2019
Case History  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Tracy%20and%20Salsa
Photos https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=95827


Re: Insulin Testing - Important Update

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

I asked Dr. Barbara Schanbacher from Cornell about sample type interference in assays and her reply is below:

"The assay used for this paper was the Immulite 1000 chemiluminescent insulin assay. This assay states it does not work on EDTA samples in the package insert. We do not use it because the assay curve has very poor sensitivity and about 15% of equine samples tested have wildly discordant results compared to the RIA we use. They are unfortunately stuck with this assay over in Australia and New Zealand as one of the better options because they can't get many of the assays available in the US.
 
Insulin is stable in serum and EDTA and heparin plasma in the RIA we use for 1 week on cells, 2 weeks in the fridge and > 5 years in the freezer and the results are comparable for all 3 sample types. "

So, unless the lab is using a CIA assay (Immulite most often mentioned in equine papers), there shouldn't be a problem at least with the Millipore brand assays used by Cornell, Guelph, Michigan State, BET Labs.  For other labs you will need to find out the type of assay being used.

--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Initial Markup Request Please!

Philippa
 

I have added updated photos of Abraham's front hooves to my photo album for mark ups please. The green & pink on the hooves is from thrush treatment. He is still a bit tender on the left front hoof. I haven't added updated photos of his hind hooves as they haven't really changed from August. Thanks.
--
Philippa New Zealand 2020
Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Philippa%20&%20Abraham  ;
Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=253721 ;


Re: Acorns

 

When I had domestic turkeys, I would have taken your leftovers.  They live acorns.  And have incredible personalities.

--
Gail Russell 8/30/2008

 

 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Gail%20and%20Brother%20-%20Odin%20-%20Decaffe%20%20-Gunthar .

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