Hi Suzanna,

ESC, WSC and starch should be listed right on the analysis if it was done by Equi-Analytical/Dairy One.You want to use the As Fed numbers.

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Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR

Hello,
I'm sure it's posted somewhere, but what is the formula for calculating ESC and WSC? For some reason I remember seeing that you can't use the number straight from the hay analysis. Thank you for your patience! 
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-Suzanna
June 2020 Berlin, Massachusetts
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sierra%20Case%20History 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=249249&p=Created,,,20,2,0,0

I should add...the reason I'm concerned about supplementation is for the purposes of supporting optimal hoof health, since we are fighting lameness.
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Allison in Ontario 2020

Sonseeahray Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Allison%20and%20Sonseeahray
Keegan Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Allison%20and%20Keegan
Keegan XRays and Hooves Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=255699&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0

Thank you for the input.  I agree that he doesn't have loss of muscle along his topline.  But it's good to hear this is fairly normal for Paso Finos and that you think he looks good for his age.  He's definitely looking the best I have ever seen him right now.

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Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
Shaku's Case History  
Shaku's Photo Album   

Hi Dr. Kellon, 
Is there a link to the Blog On Hay Belly? My IR broodmare looks pregnant year round and gets wormed, teeth etc. regularly. After her 2nd foal I asked my repro vet about the look of her belly and he said "she is a broodmare" end of conversation. Her hay has always been weighed - it is mature hay which is a little stemy and also tolerates morning pasture with a muzzle, Triple Crown Timothy Balancer cubes with Triple Crown Lite, Vit E, mag ox from Uckele, kelp with iodine, flax & salt. This year she lost a lot of weight after foaling. She usually loses some but I have NEVER been able to see her ribs like I do now and her hip bones & spine are very noticeable. I can always tell when she has eaten something or is off in her diet as she immediately gets fat pads or her eye sockets fill. I have added beet pulp to her diet, doubled her flax, let her eat unlimited hay and have pasture without the muzzle and she did not gain any weight. She still has a "pregnant" look belly. The foal just turned 5 months old and while I usually weight to 6 to wean, I may do her sooner. I have not posted in a long time or even had her tested for anything as things have been going smoothly with her current diet. She is 19. I also just saw your article on Free Fecal Water on the UCKELE sight. I think this is something she has!!!! She is a grey horse and our daily routine is to wash her backside, in between and all the way down her legs. She has a huge scar by her vulva which happened when she was young so I always thought she just stood funny when she went causing her to soil herself. What should I be doing? Should I try Psyllium? Her foal also has loose stools but I had been thinking it was because she has been eating a lot of leaves or anything that blows in the pasture. My other vet is coming next week should I have any testing done?

Thank you!
Dawn & Roma
Middletown, DE
August 2011

Thanks for that update, Aunna.

I'll have those mark-ups for you in time for that appointment.

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Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR

Jeanne,

Did you try the PEA? There is an equine report in horses with arthritis https://www.mdpi.com/2076-2615/10/9/1469/htm .
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Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001

Hi Ronda,

Kruse Feed in La Habra carries a very nice Timothy.  Have you spoken to anyone there?  They do deliver to all of Southern CA.  I don't know if they test or not, but you might be able to get a few bales and test them?

Good luck, if anything else comes to mind, I'll let you know.


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Joy and Willie (PPID/IR)
Nevada County, CA - 2019

Case history:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Joy%20and%20Willie
Willie's photo album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=242526

Thanks Dr Kellon.
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Nancy and Vinnie and Summer
Oakley, Ca
Joined Nov 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245855

Summer
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie/Summer 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=249104

Neither one of these is "very low" sugar/starch. I wouldn't feed them for that reason and because most of that number is coming  from starch. Iron also very high.  For a "best guess" supplement try Amino Trace + from Mad Barn with a safe carrier like beet pulp, soy hulls or ODTB cubes.
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Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001

The breed's high head carriage and prominent withers does tend to exaggerate the dip in their topline which is coming from the shape of the spine, not muscle loss. These aren't the best views to evaluate muscle but it looks like his muscle bulk along the topline is good. He does have a bit of a drop to his abdomen and a little prominence from the front but considering his age he really looks pretty good to me.
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Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001

According to the feed calculator on MadBarn Feeds, Keegan is currently receiving the following amino acids daily:

Lysine 37.298766 g/d
Methionine 6.729843 g/d
Threonine 33.141708 g/d

Keegan was on MadBarn Amino Trace Plus from March to August. We discontinued because we needed a custom vit/min blend to balance the iron in our hay. The AT+ balanced last year's hay, but this year our iron was double. 

I am wondering if I should purchase Lys, Met, and/or Thre separately and supplement one, two, or all three to his current regimen, or if he's currently getting enough. Would appreciate some input on that!
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Allison in Ontario 2020

Sonseeahray Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Allison%20and%20Sonseeahray
Keegan Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Allison%20and%20Keegan
Keegan XRays and Hooves Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=255699&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0

You certainly should consider that it's that high but only your horse's response will tell you if it's too high.
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Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001

You should either provide enough hay that they don't run out overnight or make the first meal of the day at least 4 hours out from the blood draw.

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/256813?p=,,,20,0,0,0::Created,,fasting+%2B+eleanor,20,2,0,77780938

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Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001

I found Uckele's Absorb All finally did the trick for my mare. We tried two other products previously with no change. My question is once this situation is gone, do we still supplement for it or is the gut now balanced again? I believe it started when I switched to blue grass straw hay a year ago (not still using that) and it was very hard to get control of.
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Shera Felde, Central Oregon, 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Story%20and%20Shera
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=253720

I would suggest doing NRC Plus and for arthritis go with the short course which focuses on arthritis only.
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Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001