Date   

Re: Question About Pergolide In A Treat

Cindy M
 

Lynn, 
I've got 2 horses getting Prascend. We've been through all kinds of tactics. They work for a while, then they do not.

A friend confided in me that she "tasted" the pills and found them very bitter.

Most recently, I was tucking their tablets into empty gelatin capsules. You can buy those online, or in health food stores/markets.  (Before Prascend, compounded pergolide came in those capsules. I never had a problem administering it that way....) 

When they began to refuse the gelatin caps, I sprinkled a little Stevia into the capsule with the tablets, hoping that might offset any bitterness they experienced if they chewed the capsule rather than swallowing it.

Two months later, they refused the capsules + stevia.

NOW, I am dissolving the capsules in a little water (10 ml) inside a dose syringe and squirting liquid Stevia (available in the baking section of most supermarkets) and syringing the liquid directly in their mouths. Let's hope this method works for a while!!

--
Cindy Martin
Nov 2009
Lincoln, AR
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Cindy%20M%20and%20Grace%20-%20Burley%20-%20Reuban%20-%20Scout


Re: How to Calculate ESC and WSC?

 

Suzanna,
Are you wanting to know if your hay is safe for your horse to eat? What is important is ESC (ethanol soluble sugars) and Starch. Combine the % numbers of the two and they should be below 10% or ideally even lower. I took a look at the hay test you have in your case history. The ESC= 10.2 and the starch = 2.8. The combination is 13, too high for it to be safe to feed without soaking to an IR horse.

Perhaps you are looking for a new hay? As long as you have the numbers for ESC and Starch you can ignore NSC and WSC. 
Bonnie Snodgrass 07-2016

ECIR Group Primary Response 

White Cloud, Michigan, USA

Mouse Case History, Photo Album


Re: CFS Elevate or Select

Denise
 

Sherry , This is from the company, per kg, My boy was getting .40Kg a day



NSC on these products is a moot point due to feed rate.

Elevate is the same as before 10 +/- 2 and you feed just cups of these.

Select 9 +/- 2


--






Denise & Ben , NB Canada Joined 2020 !!!!
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/filessearch?q=denise+and+ben


Re: New member in New Mexico ..... basic help/questions - thank you!

Sharon Bice
 

Eleanor in PA - Thank you for your review and quick feedback. I have pulled her off Prascend, because I think it was affecting her appetite as she only appears to be eating about 10 lbs of hay/day and seems a bit frantically hungry or something. (Maybe this is a mistake, will talk w/ my normal vet, unless you have any thoughts on this.)I will also mainly feed out of her porta-grazer as she appears not to like the hay nets, despite the fact that I've been using them for several months and have recently transitioned to larger holes. I am working on new photos of feet and body and will upload to the group/her file tonight. I am in the process of uploading more information but am not techy so my husband will help me tonight as he is :) 
I will ask my normal regular vet (I went to more of a specialist, I thought...) to do a repeat test and send to Cornell.

Thanks so much again, you don't know how much I appreciate your help! I wish I could thank you with a pie or something!!! 
--
Sharon Bice & Tailight, New Mexico,  2020


Re: FREE FECAL WATER SYNDROME - also WAS: Dr. K Blog On Hay Belly - Could Relevante Have This?

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

These are the two blogs

https://wp.me/p2WBdh-Z8

https://wp.me/p2WBdh-Xt

 If you use a probiotic, try Uckele Absorb All.  They also sell psyllium.  5% discount with code ECIR for all ECIR members.

--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Trimmer coming on Wednesday

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Judy,

I've added the latest mark-ups to Bugsy's album:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=243358&p=Created,,,20,2,0,0

Lots of good things have happened and Bugsy is a much happier camper thanks to all of your hard work. So happy for both of you 🙂
 
Keep an eye on the collateral groove depth in each foot to monitor medio-lateral balance. Heels are starting to respond but still have a ways to go. Hinds are looking a lot better, more quickly than the fronts, but they weren't as badly damaged overall. He's really developing concavity now, which is helping to give you a bit more flexibility in getting corrections in place. Continue to blend the remaining flaring into the angles of the healthier wall from above. Continue creeping the heels back while keeping the toes from taking off ahead of him.

https://www.hoofrehab.com/Balance.html

https://www.hoofrehab.com/HorsesSole.html

https://www.hoofrehab.com/HeelHeight.html

RF dorsal: The blue area is that ridge of flaky sole material around the perimeter in the front. Lower that a bit to get the foot more level to the ground and to allow for lowering/backing up the heels some.
 
RF lateral: Blue area is where to back up the toe more. Blue line under the heel is where to lower/back the heels up some.
 
RF lateral sole plane: Blue area corresponds to the blue area on the dorsal view. The blue hashed areas are along the excess bar height , heel height and some dried up frog tags that can all be removed. Green line is the visual of where the dorsal wall eventually will line up.
 
RF sole: Solid blue lie is where the perimeter should be. Blue hashed areas are what needs to be removed. There is some dried up frog material at the back of the frog, along with some peeling periople, that can be removed. Yellow hashes are along those leading edges of the bars that appear to be detaching, so can be removed. Orange circles are where to establish the new heel buttresses.
 
LF lateral: Green line follows the pastern angle down to the ground to highlight how we're trying to align the entire foot. Blue area is again the toe height and length that can be removed. Orange line is where the heels will eventually be. Yellow line follows the coronary band and is relatively even now, except for the dip at the heels where it dragged down and forward. As the heels come back, that dip will also relax back up so that eventually it will flow smoothly into the rest of the coronary band angle.
 
LF lateral sole plane: All the blue areas correspond to the blue on the lateral view: lower the ridge in the front a bit;  back up the toe and bevel it; level the hooks on the heels; remove the raggedy tags of frog/periople.
 
LF sole: Same general idea as the RF. The frog is narrower, more elongated, suggesting he isn't landing heel first here with any regularity. If that's the case, need to figure out how to pad and boot so that he will engage that foot more.
 
RH dorsal: Blue area is some sole ridge that can be lowered a bit to help get the HPA in better alignment.
 
RH lateral: Blue areas are where to bring the toe back and move the heel back some more.
 
RH lateral sole plane: Solid blue area corresponds to the blue area on the dorsal view. Blue lines are where to lower the heels slightly, which will also move them back.
 
RH sole: Same general discussion as the fronts. There appears to be some excess frog covering the collateral groove on the medial side, which can be trimmed away. Ditto for the ragged bits along the back of the frog.
 
LH lateral: Green and orange lines are again the visuals for where the hoof capsule will eventually align. Blue area is where the toe needs to be brought back.
 
LH lateral sole plane: Same idea as the other three.
 
LH sole: Clean up the back of the frog where the rolled under heel bulbs are starting to wear away. Get that medial heel that's jutting out into better alignment with the rest of the hoof capsule so that the heel itself can start to stand up straighter. Clean up the leading edges of the bars lightly along the yellow hashes. Create the new heel buttresses in the areas of the orange circles.
 
Prioritize getting heel-first landings for him. If needed, experiment with various types of padding in his boots until you find what he needs at this point in time. Then be ready to experiment again when he tells you that isn't working anymore.
 
--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


Re: Use of Palmitoylethanolamide(PEA) for pain management

Frances C.
 

Thanks Dr. K. for the very interesting report on PEA
--
- Frances C.
December 2017, Washington & California
Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Frances%20and%20Phoenix
Phoenix's Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=12382


Re: Sourcing Tested Timothy Hay in So Cal

Shevawn Romine
 

I am in Texas, but used a tested Timothy for years (imported from Oregon) - yet it wasn't until I switched to tested (a bit lower than the Timothy but both still be below recommended levels) California Giant Bermuda that I got control of my horses weight . Of course this is still imported for me, from California, so might be something you would want to look into since it is coming from your state. Not sure what the difference was since both were tested low. The California Giant Bermuda also had the benefit of not having the runners that our Texas Coastal Bermuda has that was no good for my guy with stomach issues.


--
Cassie and Shevawn
03/2015   Gordon, TX
CH folder: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Shevawn%20and%20Cassie
Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=76832


Re: How to Calculate ESC and WSC?

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Suzanna,

Both of these measurements are included in most hay analysis and that includes yours - in the section under carbohydrates the 2nd line is ethanol soluble CHO (ESC- sugar) and the 3rd line is Water Soluble CHO (WSC - Sugar). 




Re: How to Calculate ESC and WSC?

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Suzanna,

ESC, WSC and starch should be listed right on the analysis if it was done by Equi-Analytical/Dairy One.You want to use the As Fed numbers.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


How to Calculate ESC and WSC?

Suzanna
 

Hello,
I'm sure it's posted somewhere, but what is the formula for calculating ESC and WSC? For some reason I remember seeing that you can't use the number straight from the hay analysis. Thank you for your patience! 
--
-Suzanna
June 2020 Berlin, Massachusetts
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sierra%20Case%20History 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=249249&p=Created,,,20,2,0,0


Re: Question Regarding Amino Acid requirements

Allison
 

I should add...the reason I'm concerned about supplementation is for the purposes of supporting optimal hoof health, since we are fighting lameness.
--
Allison in Ontario 2020

Sonseeahray Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Allison%20and%20Sonseeahray
Keegan Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Allison%20and%20Keegan
Keegan XRays and Hooves Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=255699&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0


Re: Dr. K Blog On Hay Belly - Could Relevante Have This?

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Thank you for the input.  I agree that he doesn't have loss of muscle along his topline.  But it's good to hear this is fairly normal for Paso Finos and that you think he looks good for his age.  He's definitely looking the best I have ever seen him right now.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History  
Shaku's Photo Album   


FREE FECAL WATER SYNDROME - also WAS: Dr. K Blog On Hay Belly - Could Relevante Have This?

DawnC
 

Hi Dr. Kellon, 
Is there a link to the Blog On Hay Belly? My IR broodmare looks pregnant year round and gets wormed, teeth etc. regularly. After her 2nd foal I asked my repro vet about the look of her belly and he said "she is a broodmare" end of conversation. Her hay has always been weighed - it is mature hay which is a little stemy and also tolerates morning pasture with a muzzle, Triple Crown Timothy Balancer cubes with Triple Crown Lite, Vit E, mag ox from Uckele, kelp with iodine, flax & salt. This year she lost a lot of weight after foaling. She usually loses some but I have NEVER been able to see her ribs like I do now and her hip bones & spine are very noticeable. I can always tell when she has eaten something or is off in her diet as she immediately gets fat pads or her eye sockets fill. I have added beet pulp to her diet, doubled her flax, let her eat unlimited hay and have pasture without the muzzle and she did not gain any weight. She still has a "pregnant" look belly. The foal just turned 5 months old and while I usually weight to 6 to wean, I may do her sooner. I have not posted in a long time or even had her tested for anything as things have been going smoothly with her current diet. She is 19. I also just saw your article on Free Fecal Water on the UCKELE sight. I think this is something she has!!!! She is a grey horse and our daily routine is to wash her backside, in between and all the way down her legs. She has a huge scar by her vulva which happened when she was young so I always thought she just stood funny when she went causing her to soil herself. What should I be doing? Should I try Psyllium? Her foal also has loose stools but I had been thinking it was because she has been eating a lot of leaves or anything that blows in the pasture. My other vet is coming next week should I have any testing done?

Thank you!
Dawn & Roma
Middletown, DE
August 2011


Re: Request for hoof evaluation for Cadet

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Thanks for that update, Aunna.

I'll have those mark-ups for you in time for that appointment.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


Re: Use of Palmitoylethanolamide(PEA) for pain management

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Jeanne,

Did you try the PEA? There is an equine report in horses with arthritis https://www.mdpi.com/2076-2615/10/9/1469/htm .
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Sourcing Tested Timothy Hay in So Cal

Joy V
 

Hi Ronda,

Kruse Feed in La Habra carries a very nice Timothy.  Have you spoken to anyone there?  They do deliver to all of Southern CA.  I don't know if they test or not, but you might be able to get a few bales and test them?

Good luck, if anything else comes to mind, I'll let you know.


--
Joy and Willie (PPID/IR)
Nevada County, CA - 2019

Case history:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Joy%20and%20Willie
Willie's photo album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=242526


Re: Question about two hay options

Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 


Re: CFS Elevate or Select

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Neither one of these is "very low" sugar/starch. I wouldn't feed them for that reason and because most of that number is coming  from starch. Iron also very high.  For a "best guess" supplement try Amino Trace + from Mad Barn with a safe carrier like beet pulp, soy hulls or ODTB cubes.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: CFS Elevate or Select

Sherry Morse
 

Denise,

A bit more housekeeping - can you please create a folder in the CH files: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files and name it "Denise and Ben" and then do a search for Ben's CH and move it to the folder?

The link you need in your signature will be that main folder as that way you will not need to update your CH link every time you update your CH.

Can't comment about either feed as neither contains an ingredient list nor any values for ESC or starch.  Can you contact the company to get that information?



23521 - 23540 of 277958