Date   

Re: Thanks on all recent posts .

Tara Smith
 


-- Hi ,This gassy colic comes on transiently with her .Not with my other 3 .We are are on all tested first ,and second cut hay blend,there is a bit of fescue in some of the first cut .It comes from a horse blend and planted by crop production.I try and pi k it out but maybe that is an issue ,IDK!She eats hay every 3 hrs or so and has a slow feeder overnight with her brother .They need to be dewormed now they have a 15 load on strongyles bit vet said wait a week now.They are 24/7 turn out on dirt and pea stone uuugh so I  dnt know .Gonna add a little psyllium powder today ...just not sure !
Tara and Gavilon
Mass.  Nov 2017
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Tara%20and%20Gavilon

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=11449


Re: FREE FECAL WATER SYNDROME - also WAS: Dr. K Blog On Hay Belly - Could Relevante Have This?

DawnC
 

Thank you Dr. Kellon,
I just didn't know if here is something else I should be looking for. We are two days in to the start of the Uckele Absorb All and psyllium.

Thank you,
Dawn & Roma
Middletown, DE
August 2011


Re: FREE FECAL WATER SYNDROME - also WAS: Dr. K Blog On Hay Belly - Could Relevante Have This?

DawnC
 

Hi Alana,
She has mostly been on ProElite Grass Advantage and her weight dropped when she was still on it. I have had her for 17 years and have never seen her ribs or her hips & topline look like this. Maybe I should add it back in.

Thanks,
Dawn & Roma
Middletown, DE
August 2011


Re: Is Pergolide compound as good as Precend?

 

Nina, you may have picked up the idea about compounding into syringes from discussion here about giving it in a syringe when the horse is fussy about taking the capsule.  In that case, the caregiver would take the capsule, as supplied by the compounder, and dissolve either the capsule or its contents in water to administer by syringe.
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Re: How to Calculate ESC and WSC?

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Hi Suzanna, there is some information on crop management in the messages here and in Horsekeeping.  My take is that ensuring grasses are not stressed by drought or lack/excess of nutrients (ie, have been appropriately fertilized based on soil analysis) are critical.  As well as various factors when you cut the grass, detailed here:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/topic/75282855#251780

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History  
Shaku's Photo Album   


Re: Winter hay arrived and results are back.

Laura and Ero
 

Hi Dr. Kellon, 

I was about to buy these beet pulp shreds (https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/9c%20Analyses%20of%20Various%20Feeds/1.%20Beet%20Pulp/StandleeBeetPulpShreds-DryNoMolasses.pdf) as an interim option for increased calcium. However, my current hay has high iron and this beet pulp also appears to have very high iron (573 ppm). So while the calcium ratio may improve, I'm concerned that the combined iron would be too much. 

I am shaking/rinsing this hay (not soaking). Note- this hay will last 1-2 months and then will be gone so I'll have to switch it to a grassy/alfalfa mix at the barn (which I've sent out for testing and awaiting results.) Now I'm not sure if introducing beet pulp is a good idea for potentially short term, especially if high in iron. Are there better beet pulp options?

My plan is to get all hay samples back (hopefully any day now) and then work with you on picking the best option and balancing to that. 

Open to thoughts or alt direction. Thanks!

--
Laura and Ero

October 2020 | Colgate, WI USA 

Ero Case History

Ero Photo Album


Re: Whole Oats

Portagecreek
 

Thank you for that info. Dr. Kellon! I always welcome new information to take away.
--
Natalie

New Brunswick, Canada

2019

Case History: Tane's case history

Photos: Tane's photos


Re: Is Pergolide compound as good as Precend?

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Nina,

Many of our members use Pet Health Pharmacy in AZ or Wedgewood Pharmacy in NJ.  Compounded pergolide comes in multiple forms with liquid being the most unstable, although we've had some recent discussion on the differences of pergolide in oil stability vs. pergolide in water (definitely a no go).  One of the advantages of using compounded is that they can put whatever amount you need in a single capsule so you don't need to worry about multiple pills being used at a time. 

Because of the differences in the amount of active drug in the BI version you do need to make sure your vet sends the prescription in correctly.  As per Dr. Kellon (https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/256344):

To guarantee your tablets are equivalent to the dosage in a Prascend tablet the prescription should read:

                                   1 mg of pergolide from pergolide mesylate




Re: Hay confusion

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Donna,

This is a bit off topic, but if you need some alternate sources for hay in that area I have a number of friends not too far from you and may be able to get some supplier names. 



Re: Whole Oats

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Carlye,

Make sure you get the Timothy Balanced Cubes. They also have straight timothy cubes that may be too high in sugar/starch.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Gas colic remedies or preventstives

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Tracy's dose of 1 tablet of Gas-X per 100 lbs is what most vets recommend. It will work immediately for stomach gas but takes a while to reach the hind gut. In humans and dogs/cats it can be used 2 to 4 times a day. No known side effects but don't give with medications.

"Gas" colic is a bit of a catch-all term for a nonsurgical colic. Another term is spasmodic colic. Poor gut motility may allow gas to build up in a segment, causing pain. Light exercise like walking or lunging usually resolves it.

Diet changes, including in hay, can cause it probably through altered fermentation patterns. I've been suspicious of organic hay preservatives on several occasions. Parasites, especially tapeworms, may be to blame.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: How to Calculate ESC and WSC?

Suzanna
 

Thanks Bonnie! 
Yes, that was my question. I wasn't sure if I add the WSC and ESC together. It's ESC and starch.  
The new crop of hay has lower percentages, which puts it just under 10% thankfully. Soaking hay in sub zero temps wasn't something I looked forward to. On those days I know I can safely skip soaking.
We bale our own hay. I wonder if there is any info on crop management and how it affects sugar levels. 
Thanks again everyone for the help! 
--
-Suzanna
June 2020 Berlin, Massachusetts
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sierra%20Case%20History 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=249249&p=Created,,,20,2,0,0


It’s Giving Tuesday....Here’s how you can help the ECIR Group!

Nancy C
 

Dear ECIR Group Members

Today marks the beginning of our end-of-year fundraising campaign. Truthfully, I hate fundraising, but it’s necessary to keep our small-but-mighty non-profit going. So thanks to all of you who’ve donated to the ECIR Group this year.

Because of you we’ve been able to guide owners from 33 countries to help their horses, ponies, donkeys, and mules. Our amazing group of outreach volunteers has handled an average of 1,170 messages per month this year. We’re so lucky to have such dedicated volunteers! The truth is, despite the fact that the ECIR Group is run entirely by volunteers, we still have costs associated with what we do, so we have to raise funds.

Let me get down to business, and then I’ll give you a bit more information about the cool projects we’ve been working on this past year. To begin with, we are grateful for all donations! Some of you make one-time donations, either end-of-year gifts, in honor of a beloved equine, or because you feel moved to help. Some of you are donating to the ECIR Group monthly. Whether it’s $5/month or $50/month, this is the only monthly income we can count on and we’re very thankful for these recurring donations.

However, we’ve lost more than half of the monthly donors that we had at the beginning of 2020. Some of this is due to natural attrition and some, we know, is a result of the pandemic. We get it. And we know a lot of people are suffering right now. It’s a tough climate in which to raise funds. But -- if you’re in a position to help and willing to make a donation to the ECIR Group, please go here and choose how you’d like to support our work. https://bit.ly/2J5xhKo. And remember: Even $5/month is super helpful! Those small, but steady, contributions are our bread-and-butter income.

Now, onto the cool stuff: Aside from the 24/7 help we offer on our outreach group, we’ve been focusing on several projects this year, including some new research projects; overhauling much of our website; and an increased presence through Facebook, podcasts, equine publications, and traffic to our website. Look for letters from Dr. Kellon and from our Research Director, Dr. Kathleen Gustafson, in the next couple of weeks with more detail on our accomplishments in 2020 and our plans for 2021.

One HUGE project nearing completion (thank you, Nancy Collins) is the Case History project. We know that many owners get stuck when using this form and we can’t provide the necessary guidance to help their equines without this critical information. A better, more user-friendly form is key. This new form will be easier to use and will be available directly on our website, ecirhorse.org. The complexity of this project has required many more months of work (and expense) than anticipated, but we are now in the testing phase which means we’re almost there!

Despite 2020 being a tough year for everyone, the ECIR Group does have a lot of good news to report. Our eye is on the future and our goal is NO Laminitis!

We can do this. Giving Tuesday is today (but we’ll happily take your donation anytime!). Will you help?

With gratitude,

Fran Metzger in Texas July, 2005
Marketing Director, Fundraising
---
---
 
Nancy C in NH 2003
ECIR Group Mod
for Fran M


Re: Thanks on all recent posts .

Tracy
 

Hi Tara!  I replied on your gas colic post about Gas-X.
Hopefully Dr Kellon sees your question here about using Gas-X daily....I would think if you're contemplating daily use of it - a much harder look needs to be taken to try and 'root cause' why your horse is having such frequent bouts of it ....is it feed, something about management that you could adjust, a medical issue....was the horse ok and then at some point gas colic/symptoms started being a problem - if so- what details (any and all details) can you remember about that.
I think gas colic is tough because it seems to be a 'catch all' type diagnosis for some mystery belly pain.  Frustrating for sure.
Has your vet had any thoughts about what might be causing it?

--
Tracy and Salsa (1999 model year Paso Fino)
Middle TN USA, September 2019
Case History  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Tracy%20and%20Salsa
Photos https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=95827


Re: Feeding Turmeric to IR & PPID horses

Maxine McArthur
 

Tori, why are you wanting to feed turmeric? 
--
Maxine and Indy (PPID) and Dangles (PPID)

Canberra, Australia 2010
ECIR Primary Response

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Maxine%20and%20Indy%20and%20Dangles 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=933

 


Feeding Turmeric to IR & PPID horses

Tori & Floss
 


There seems to be a lot of conflicting information out here in regards to feeding Turmeric to IR and PPID horses?
I have read Dr Kellon's links to scientific studies done back in 2010 and 2011 which indicates feeding it increases Insulin Secretion. Is this still the case?
Is it safe to feed Turmeric to an IR or PPID horse. Help!?
Tori

 

December, 2016

Adelaide Australia

Case History  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Tori%20and%20Floss 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=3347

 

 

 


Re: Sourcing Tested Timothy Hay in So Cal

LJ Friedman
 

My barn received  the Timothy hay today. I will send out samples to test for 603 and nitrates. The hay dealer, Jason from SoCal Hay,says he has other Timothy hay lower in sugar starch. He says he can send some test results to you, though they are not as detailed as we like, and he also says he could send you samples that he cores  from 10 bales approximately. I think you might want to contact him.  559-281-7527  ($24.50 when 272 bales were purchased)
--
LJ Friedman  Nov 2014 Vista,   Northern  San Diego, CA

Jesse and majestic ‘s Case History 
Jesse's Photos

 


Re: Is Pergolide compound as good as Precend?

NinaJW
 

Thanks Martha! Is this a product I can buy from a reputable lab anywhere to come to me?
i thought it was compounded into syringes, am I mistaken?
--
Nina and Jadon
Kentucky 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nina%20and%20Jadon

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=244202


Re: Is Pergolide compound as good as Precend?

 


 Hi Nina,
Prascend is a brand of pergolide which is packaged uniquely.  The powder is pressed into a tablet, which is packaged in a sealed foil packet containing nitrogen.  Pergolide has limited stability in water or moisture so the packaging prolongs the shelf life considerably.  Due to the way it is calculated, there is 1.3 times as much active component in a 1 mg Prascend tablet than a 1 mg pergolide capsule so the equivalent amount of pergolide you need for 1 1/2 Prascend would be 2 mg.

There should not be a variance in dose if the pergolide is bought from a reliable compounder.  I would look for a compounder who sells a lot of pergolide so that it’s more likely to be fresh.  Compounded pergolide needs to be purchased much more frequently than Prascend.  There are pros and cons for each but the active drug is the same.
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Is Pergolide compound as good as Precend?

NinaJW
 

Jadon is on 1 1/2 tablets per day. No symptoms. Some obvious visual signs(to me). This stuff is PRICEY! Make no mistake I’ll buy it some how some way regardless. However, Pergolide is substantially less expensive. My vet will compound it if I insist but does not want me to switch because of variance in dosage with the compound and Jadon takes the pills easy peasy. So, to switch or not to switch is the question?? And are there different side effects? Thanks 
--
Nina and Jadon
Kentucky 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nina%20and%20Jadon

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=244202

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