Date   

Re: Latest Update on Vinnie and the Veil

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Have you tried Anise oil? Few horses can resist it. Try just 2 or 3 drops mixed in well.  Agree with stopping CTB.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: help needed; russian olive trees and berries and ir horse

Joy V
 

Hi Daisy,

You might look into electric fencing.  If it's a small area, you could put some up pretty inexpensively.  They run on solar and you can also use backup batteries.  It's a very temporary fix, and won't make any impact on the environment of the area you use it.

Good luck!

Joy
--
Joy and Willie (PPID/IR)
Nevada County, CA - 2019

Case history:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Joy%20and%20Willie
Willie's photo album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=242526


Latest Update on Vinnie and the Veil

Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 

Hi all,

Just wanted to send another update. Vinnie is doing fantastic health wise. We are walking 15 mins per day and start 20 mins next week..

We are still dealing with the pergolide veil as he is still not eating his supplement bucket as he did in the past and I am bot giving him all the supplements he used to get because refuses some.   He is still on 10ml of APF pro per day. 

Based on how well his body responded to pergolide, I had this epiphany the other day that maybe he has been PPID this whole time since 2018  even though his bloodwork has consistent been negative.  He has just done too well body condition wise.  In fact, I feel like this week he got ever slightly cresty again and I attributed that to trying a small amt. Timothy hay that had more sugar, but now I am wondering if it is just more symptomatically uncontrolled ppid.  I was planning on stopping pergolide after seasonal rise, but now I am thinking I should keep him on his dose or maybe raise it slightly?  He is also getting CTB and since he falls into the majorly sensitive category I wonder if I should stop CTB because of the possibility of interference with pergolide?

I am also looking for new hay, while my current blue grass is low in s/s I am not happy with the iron and my gut tells me I need to mitigate all things that can be causing Insulin response so we don't have any set backs caused by "me".

I would like to get him in the uckele muscle eq to help with topline loss but, he won't eat it if it is in his mash.  I am already syringing, APF, vit e and HA because he won't eat them in his mashy any more.  So trying to think of a way to entice him to eat his mash better w/o introducing things that are bad for him.  His mash consists of a big cup of tc timothy balance cubes and a small cup of lmf low starch complete with his balancer, flax, salt ctb, chondroitin, wellpride fish oil made with a good amt if water so it is about oatmeal consistency. 

All feedback welcome.. thanks in advance
Nan
--
Nancy and Vinnie and Summer
Oakley, Ca
Joined Nov 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245855

Summer
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie/Summer 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=249104


Re: Safe Feeding of Beet Pulp

Bobbie Day
 

Gail, 
I have introduced BP to many horses and personally have never had any Gi issues, maybe Dr.K will chime in but I think in my case it’s done the opposite and helped things move along. We have a lot of sand here so although desi gets it daily for mostly a carrier for her supplements  I feed to my others for that reason only.

--
Bobbie and Desi
NRC March 2020
Utah, Nov 2018

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Bobbie%20and%20Desi 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78821


Re: Magnesium supplementing

Allison
 


I send my hay away for sampling each year. Once I get the report back, I send it to madbarn and they plug the numbers in to my online profile. The profile is kind of like feed xl. Its a spreadsheet based program that has basic equine nutrition parameters built in. Its not detailed enough to tell you what your iron/zinc/copper ratios SHOULD be for example,  but most of us know by now where our feed program should fall. It does comprehensively tell you the breakdown of your feed, including carbohydrates and amino acids.

So my hay this year was double in iron from last year. Last year I could supplement with the Amino Trace plus and it brought my numbers in nice and tight. This year, not so much. I tried adding other pre-made supps to the feed plan to see if anything else would work. Madbarn has hundreds of feeds and supplements nutritional info saved in their online database so you just choose one, pick a daily amount to feed and see where your numbers come out. Unfortunatlely since im in Canada and our selection stinks here, nothing was working.

So I messaged Scott for a custom. He asked me what do I want in my custom, and what else do I feed besides hay (which i already had plugged in to my profile) so I said...iron/copper/zinc fixed, a probiotic, and extra magnesium sulfate. He discussed this with me a bit and cautioned me on a few things and we came to an agreement. I decided to ditch the magnesium in the custom because I can buy it waaaay cheaper at my local feed store. Doing it this way was cheaper for me than buying a general vit/min and then adding copper and zinc on top of that. Plus a heck of a lot easier.

Hay sampling each year is way more cost effective in the long run as opposed to just guessing. It costs me $50 but then I'm not wasting money shooting in the dark when it comes to my horses nutrition. Also if I had guessed based on last years numbers, I would have been way off on my iron values, and we all know how destructive that can be.
--
Allison in Ontario 2020

Sonseeahray Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Allison%20and%20Sonseeahray
Keegan Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Allison%20and%20Keegan
Keegan XRays and Hooves Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=255699&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0


Re: Use of Palmitoylethanolamide(PEA) for pain management

Rose Miller <Rosemiller@...>
 


-- sorry, found it! 
Rose Miller in Arizona 2020


Re: Use of Palmitoylethanolamide(PEA) for pain management

Rose Miller <Rosemiller@...>
 


-- Please, where are you purchasing the PEA?, THANKS 
Rose Miller in Arizona 2020


Re: Magnesium supplementing

Cheryl Oickle
 

Re Hay balancer
Here in Port Alberni on the Island we have a great lady who mineral balances once the hay analysis is complete.  Her name is Sally Hill and her contact is Cracking Yolks Farm.
Either name through facebook should enable folks to connect.


--
Cheryl and Jewel
Oct 2018
Port Alberni BC Canada
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Cheryl%20and%20Jewel
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=81063


Re: help needed; russian olive trees and berries and ir horse

Sherry Morse
 

Daisy,

Maybe ask if they'd install wire fencing just around the 12 trees.  It won't help with windswept branches or fruit, but would keep Tiko away from the trees themselves.  We've done that to keep horses from chewing on the trees and it doesn't take very long - you just need 3 - 4 t-posts per tree and some 6 foot wire fencing.



Re: help needed; russian olive trees and berries and ir horse

Daisy Shepherd
 

dr kellon, interesting article on  the testing of the russian olive tree leaves and berries. thank you , daisy and tiko
--
-- 
Daisy, Tiko and Whisper
CO, April 2019
Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Daisy%20and%20Tiko 
Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=90099&p=Name,,,20,2,0,0


Re: help needed; russian olive trees and berries and ir horse

Daisy Shepherd
 

i plan to talk with owners today about removal and clipping branches. my other options are find  new boarding place ( which is difficult in my area )  or put muzzle on again; as he gets  about 4 months with no muzzle and since pasture is very dormant, really prefer not to muzzle.  thank you for your help, daisy and tiko
--
-- 
Daisy, Tiko and Whisper
CO, April 2019
Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Daisy%20and%20Tiko 
Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=90099&p=Name,,,20,2,0,0


Re: Magnesium supplementing

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Kandace,

The short answer is yes, you have to have each load of hay tested and then balance your vitamin and minerals to the hay analysis to be sure it's 100% spot on. The more focused commercial supplements (CA Trace and AZ Complete as 2 examples) are formulated for the average hay in those areas which may or may not apply to hay in other areas, or even hay IN those areas that is above or below average. 



Re: Magnesium supplementing

Kandace Krause
 

Thanks Allsion.
Do you re-establish supplementing every year? 
I have been discussing this with my hay supplier, he has a business partner to help you choose your hay, to get the right one for your circumstance.  He, while not up the ins and outs(that's the planners job) is very aware of annual and field differences in his crop.  For example they found that the 2020 crop was much higher in sugar and starch, easily explainable when you think about the grazing recommendations.  2020 we had a great spring with the perfect amount of rain and then it got really hot and dry until past harvest time.  So the plants would have been stressing, loading their sugars up.
The hay I have now will last me until crop time next year, which will also put me into the same time as seasonal rise starts to impact my horses.  So does that put me into a whole new supplementing place?
Kandace
--
Kandace K Rocky Mountains, Alberta, Oct 2
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kandace%20J%20and%20K


Re: help needed; russian olive trees and berries and ir horse

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Horses will increase browsing when pastures go dormant. The berries (actually fruits) of this tree are over 50 % glucose and fructose by dry weight https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5108988/ , https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.675.1199&rep=rep1&type=pdf . Leaves can also accumulate significant amounts of sugar and starch but I haven't found specifics for this tree but deer and cattle consume them readily.

Can you get permission to remove low lying branches?
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Safe Feeding of Beet Pulp

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Instead of saying beet pulp related, diet change related would be more accurate.  All horses should have diet changes made gradually, including new hays and hay to pasture or vice versa. Need to be especially careful in horses with a history of digestive upset.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Magnesium supplementing

Lorna Cane
 

This is interesting,Allison.
Does this mean that MadBarn balances your hay for you, from the analysis, telling you the minerals needed, in the appropriate ratios?
You can then check their products to see if anything fits the bill, or Scott will do a custom mix for you?

Or......just  having foggy brain syndrome.....you have your hay balanced by someone here,and that is what you send to Scott,for the rest of the process?

--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


Re: Magnesium supplementing

Allison
 

If you send your hay analysis to madbarn, they will create a profile for you for free in their online database. From there you can add other feed options and see if there's any prepackaged feeds or supplements that will fix your horses diet. If you can't find anything that does the trick, get a quote for a custom mix from Scott at madbarn. Its actually not that expensive and you only have to order a minimum of 25kg if you get it in granular form. My custom costs me $1.60/day including tax. Just be aware that some horses are not loving the taste of the madbarn products and it can be a bit of a trick to figure out how to get them to eat it lol. My opinion is that its worth the effort because its so important to get their diet tight.
--
Allison in Ontario 2020

Sonseeahray Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Allison%20and%20Sonseeahray
Keegan Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Allison%20and%20Keegan
Keegan XRays and Hooves Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=255699&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0


Re: Safe Feeding of Beet Pulp

 

From Dr. Kellon:  "Myth: Beet pulp is high in insoluble fiber and poorly digestible. Exactly the opposite is true. It is lower in insoluble fiber than grass/hay, high in soluble fiber and very easily digested in the large intestine by fermentation. Because of this high soluble fiber content, beet pulp is also an excellent prebiotic."
But does it cause gut irritation in some horses?  I have twice had horses go off their feed and have increased intestinal sounds when beet pulp was introduced (possibly too quickly).  One horse, who had a history of what appeared to be gas colic, and appeared to be gassy in this circumstance, colicked and died overnight shortly thereafter after what I now realized was days of intermittent gassiness and mild discomfort.   I have no idea what was going on with him, but he was the type of horse who had colicked a couple of times over the years, though resolved with treatment, so he was susceptible.  I always wondered if it was the beet pulp, and I am responsible.  My vet is not very good at sleuthing out the causes for things, so she was no help in figuring out the roots of the gassiness, and I had never heard of Gas-X.  

So it was unlikely to have been beet pulp related?
 

--
Gail Russell 8/30/2008

 

 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Gail%20and%20Brother%20-%20Odin%20-%20Decaffe%20%20-Gunthar .


Re: Having trouble understanding case history directions

Sherry Morse
 


Hello Shawn,




Having trouble understanding case history directions

Shawn Gould
 

I have filled out the form best I could, but unable to follow uploading directions. I am not computer literate at all using this form and when I try to do what it says it doesn't give me the choices that are listed. I would appreciate some help. Thank you so much
--
Shawn G in CA, 2020

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