Date   

Re: Frog Cleft Or Commissure? Is This Normal?

Lynn
 

Joy and All - thank you so much for all your encouragement and help. Got back from barn ....I feel like we caught this sooner rather than later because of everyone's help here. I walked him up and down the aisle and the caregiver (who is much more experienced than me) and I both agree he is not exhibiting any pain. I washed the feet with a wire brush and Dawn dishwashing liquid/warm water after picking them. Stripped his stall while i waited for them to dry and hauled in bags of pelleted bedding to keep things dry. Treated his feet and have help lined up for the days i can't be there. The big take away for me about this sneaky problem? [I never heard of sulcus thrush before now] You don't see it or smell it. The crack seems to be the only indication unless they are lame from it which Relevante is not.  When i go back Saturday I'm considering doing an apple cider vinegar/water soak [if he'll stand in the darn plastic bags].
I got the ingredients for Pete Ramey's Goo recipe at Wal-Mart but didn't end up using it because I found he had updated the recipe in 2019 [somehow i missed that] so if anyone wants that recipe ...here it is...

Currently, I mix 8 ounces (250 ml) of generic extra strength Desitin (40% zinc oxide cream) with two teaspoons (10 ml) of copper sulfate powder. This sticks to the frogs (and all over me) better than anything I have tried, and has the possible advantage of being an antiseptic, rather than antibiotic. Keep the solution at room temperature or close to your body in winter to avoid clogging of the syringe.

Important: If you source copper sulfate crystals, rather than powder, use a mortar and pestle to grind it into a fine powder prior to mixing.

This is a big switch for me -- for almost 20 years I used a 50/50 mixture of generic Bacitracin Cream or Neosporin Plus Pain and human Athletes Foot Cream (1% Clotrimazole). I have cured thousands of deep thrush cases with it, but am now shying away from the antibiotic cream in favor of antiseptics because of concerns about creating antibiotic-resistant bacteria strains.

--  I found No Thrush powder at TSC which someone else mentioned and used that until the other stuff i ordered comes....I would also have to order copper sulfate powder....Thanks again - truly to everyone on this post for your invaluable input.
Lynn
Beavercreek, Ohio
March 2018
Relevante Case History
Relevante Photo Album

Ω


Re: jesse chrm screen labs in his folder

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Yes - normal. Liver issues ruled out.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: jesse chrm screen labs in his folder

LJ Friedman
 

i added the bile results.  vet says they look normal. so liver issues less likely??
--
LJ Friedman  Nov 2014 Vista,   Northern  San Diego, CA

Jesse and majestic ‘s Case History 
Jesse's Photos

 


Re: hay analysis 1st or 2nd cutting

Firstqualityhay@...
 

Daisey,

Testing is really the only way to know for sure.  Test results can vary based on maturity at the time of cut.  Some would argue that hay cut early vs late has a noticeable impact in sugar content.  Based on this article (  https://georgiaforages.caes.uga.edu/content/dam/caes-subsite/forages/docs/faqs/050FAQ-timeofday.pdf ), I’m not so sure it matters with respect to grass hay and our own experience forage testing early morning or late evening hay cuttings.  I can’t speak to legumes.

Pulling core samples for testing is not difficult nor are the tools expensive.  Sometimes your co-op or extension agent will do this or loan you the tools to do so.  Our customers typically want  Equi-Analytical’s 603 Trainer forage test.

Take care,
Bill
--
Bill J. in VA 2020
FirstQualityHay.com


Re: Hay analysis question

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Beth,

Assuming that Dr. Kellon saw the hay analysis if she didn't say you need to soak the hay, you won't have to.  If those numbers come from the 'As Sampled' % column you should be ok without soaking.  If they came from one of the other columns there may be an issue; but we need to see the whole report to be able to say for sure.




Re: Question about Prascend

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Jessica,

Your friend should discuss with her vet getting a prescription for pergolide.  Many of our Canadian members use Island Pharmacy for their pergolide.  As has already been mentioned the best option has been found to be pergolide capsules instead of liquid pergolide.



Hay analysis question

 

Hi. I had Equi-Analytical do an analysis & Dr. Kellon balanced it through Uckele. My question is: is it low enough that it doesn't need to be soaked? ESC is 4.0 & Starch is 0.2. That's low enough not to soak right? I just want someone to double check that I'm looking at the correct numbers & not being extra hopeful. Thanks in advance!
--
Beth & Flame & Diana

NV Oct 2013

Flame Case History

Flame Pictures

Diana Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Beth%20and%20Diana  




Re: EMERGENCY

 
Edited

Anne, are you using Classic Equine clinic? Dr. Johnson in Ada? I heard good things about him in general. Just curious, I have been there once. Many good vets do not understand the impact that diet can have on Insulin Resistance and laminitis. 
--
Bonnie Snodgrass 07-2016

ECIR Group Primary Response 

White Cloud, Michigan, USA

Mouse Case History, Photo Album


Re: jesse chrm screen labs in his folder

LJ Friedman
 

As always, thank you for your reply. When I emailed my local vet,he thought we should look at bile acids. So I agreed he could call the lab and run those tests for further evaluation.
--
LJ Friedman  Nov 2014 Vista,   Northern  San Diego, CA

Jesse and majestic ‘s Case History 
Jesse's Photos

 


Re: jesse chrm screen labs in his folder

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

LJ,

Most of the findings are only minimally above or below range. He does appear somewhat dehydrated (the albumin and total protein) and GGT is elevated but without any abnormal findings on other liver tests and not in the range for significant liver disease.  GGT is a very sensitive enzyme that could be elevated from fatty liver from his IR/diabetes or from low level mycotoxins in his diet, or even from oxidative stress.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: post anesthesia founder

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Jessica,

Unless this horse also had a GI tract complication it sounds unlikely he has laminitis.  Excessive toe creates an illusion of rotation which is actually capsular movement away from the bone when the bone alignment is normal. Without the radiographs and a full history we really can't say much.

There is no such thing as post anesthesia laminitis although a prolonged period of no blood flow to a foot could do it.

--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: hay analysis 1st or 2nd cutting

Nancy C
 

Hi Daisy

You just don't know with out testing.  I have had second cut timothy be my hay of choice many times.

Because it is sometimes not as stemmy as first my cut, my guys can go through it more quickly, so knowing how much I am feeding is important.
--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2019-2020
Join us at the 2021 NO Laminitis! Conference, August 12-15, Harrisburg, PA


Re: Frog Cleft Or Commissure? Is This Normal?

Joy V
 

Please don't feel horrible Lynn.  5 different vets and 3 different hoof care professionals never once mentioned thrush with regards to my horse.  In fact, my gelding was diagnosed navicular by 2 vets, when he in fact, had thrush.  I figured out what the problem was by looking at Pete Ramey's website and also located a new hoof care professional there, who has made an amazing difference for my horse. 

So my horse was too lame to ride for almost 5 years, due to thrush, and I never knew that was the problem.  Years of toe first landings only made his lameness worse.  He is improving every day, and has been totally sound most of the past few months.  Don't despair, the "butt crack" central sulcus absolutely can be fixed!  You're on the right path. 

 
--
Joy and Willie (PPID/IR)
Nevada County, CA - 2019

Case history:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Joy%20and%20Willie
Willie's photo album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=242526


Re: post anesthesia founder

jessica skene
 

well the horse seemed to yes come back too quick so the people at the hospital gave him a big dose of tranquilizer... The horse seem to have done bad metabolic reaction to this or anesthesia or both!
--
Jessica Skene  - Abitibi, Québec, Canada
Sonara => Canadian X QH mare , 14 years old, historic of founder and Laminitis, IR / EMS

october 2017

Link to case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jessica%20Skene%20and%20Sonara/SonaraCaseHistory2019.pdf
Link to album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=10295&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0
Link to hay analysis: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jessica%20Skene%20and%20Sonara/analysedefoin.pdf


Re: Question about Prascend

jessica skene
 

Good question Kristen! 

 

I wonder as well!

Knowing more about other form of pergolide is good tho! We have a cushing mare at the barn and her owner is on a low income! So taking liquid or compoud perfolide would be great!  I think as compound is more stable this one would be the best choice as we don't have a fridge at the barn!

The mare is on prascend for now 1 pills a day, she is getting more alive! she was half dead, drinking a lot and not mooving a lot (she always had great energy) not bulldozing in the field( she was one of the top mare) and having incredibly fuzzy hair at winter!

She now getting more alive, drink normally, start to be more fighty with the other horses and to move around more! she seem to come back to her old self :) 

So I want to help my friend to be able to keep the mare on the med and not explode her budget
--
Jessica Skene  - Abitibi, Québec, Canada
Sonara => Canadian X QH mare , 14 years old, historic of founder and Laminitis, IR / EMS

october 2017

Link to case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jessica%20Skene%20and%20Sonara/SonaraCaseHistory2019.pdf
Link to album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=10295&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0
Link to hay analysis: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jessica%20Skene%20and%20Sonara/analysedefoin.pdf


hay analysis 1st or 2nd cutting

Daisy Shepherd
 


--  hello, generally, is 1st cutting prone to being less rich than 2nd cutting for grass hay. especially esc, starch, protein.  thank you, daisy and tiko
-- 
Daisy, Tiko and Whisper
CO, April 2019
Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Daisy%20and%20Tiko 
Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=90099&p=Name,,,20,2,0,0


Re: Devil's Claw Plus

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Shera,

Yucca is contraindicated in metabolic horses as it can raise insulin levels.  You can read more about that here: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/Joint%20Supplements/Glucosamine,%20MSM,%20Yucca,%20HA.pdf




Re: EMERGENCY

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Anne,

I don't see any recent bloodwork.  The August bloodwork looks better for insulin but was that test done fasting or non-fasting?  What changed in management between May and August?  Was Nemo put on Prascend at any point?



Re: Frog Cleft Or Commissure? Is This Normal?

Lynn
 

Thanks Nancy! My farrier just texted me he can come at the two-week mark. Before that I’m going to really study Dr. B’s presentation so I can gain a better understanding of all the points you have highlighted. I’m also printing off a copy for my farrier if that’s permitted.. he likes to read geeky stuff.. LOL
--
Lynn
Beavercreek, Ohio
March 2018
Relevante Case History
Relevante Photo Album

Ω


Re: Frog Cleft Or Commissure? Is This Normal?

Nancy C
 
Edited

Hi Lynn

One more geek out RE: Bowker.  The light bulb moment for me was understanding why the sulcus is there and where it should be.  If it is sitting too far back in the foot, it does not support the frog stay in it's correct position.  This, in turn, keeps the ligaments and fascia from working to use the micro vessels in the frog itself to dissipate energy with every foot fall. It's not so much about pumping back up but using these micro vessles to absorb energy.

If you can pick up the rasp in between visits or have your farrier come more often, that is a huge advantage to moving things along.

As the others have said, no beating yourself up. The fact that you want to chase this down is commendable, Lynn. 
Congratualtions! It ain't easy.
--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2019-2020
Join us at the 2021 NO Laminitis! Conference, August 12-15, Harrisburg, PA

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