Date   

Re: Question about Prascend

 
Edited

Hi Viki,
Our recommendations are to soak for 1 hour in cold water or 1/2 hour in hot.  And then rinse to wash away the soaked out sugars.  Longer periods of soaking are unnecessary and can even be detrimental, especially if you have soaking water which is high in iron.
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Re: URGENT- Vinnie insulin up 300%

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Nancy,

As far as I know, nitrate exposure does not trigger insulin.

Your lysine dose is fine. There is contradictory information from studies (most of them huiman) regarding which amino acids trigger insulin, or all of them. There was a recent equine study (Loos et al) which found horses with EMS had exaggerated insulin responses to a 31% protein supplement (11% ESC + starch) compared to non-EMS horses but they fed two meals of 2 kg each, 30 minutes apart, so a total of 4.4 pounds. That's 1,364 grams of protein. Horses were fasted first and had no other feed given. We need more data more relevant to real life conditions.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: jesse chrm screen labs in his folder

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

LJ,

None of those horses had PPID - only EMS. Cabergoline/pergolide are not treatments for EMS.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Laminitis Relapse Why?

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Kandace,

This sounds more like an abscess.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Laminitis Relapse Why?

Kandace Krause
 

I have to report that something has flared "K"'s laminitis.  Blood and xrays redone Dec 10.  Zero changes on rads, except more sole growth.  Blood report back Dec 23 and ACTH 151 (Cornell's lab scale, not UoG which was first as CH and I now understand scale is measured different) and insulin was only 2 points too high, I don't recall exact number and haven't gotten paperwork from vet yet.

On Dec 30 she was walking 10 minutes in hand and looked fine.  Dec 31 she would not put weight on rotated hoof, whe was constantly lifting it off the ground.

How fast can dietary changes show up?  That fast and hard, one day sound looking next day holding foot off ground?

My original hay store(Hallet's 2019) was cleared as safe, although at very top end so I started adding it back, unsoaked,  into hay mix of all three types early Dec.  It would never have been more than 1/3 of fed weight.  It was mentioned that some horses may only tolerate hay under 7%.
Soaked hay cubes (60%orchard grass, 30% Timothy 10% alfafla) added at 8 OZ per day to help encourage eating of other supplements.  Started also early Dec.
Dec. 24 started back at 12 gr. approx (1/2 recommended dose) - Diamond V, Biotin Supplement and at 1/4 dose (30 gr, approx) G's Formula.

Thanks for telling me what I have done wrong.
--  
Kandace K Rocky Mountains, Alberta, Oct 2
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kandace%20J%20and%20K


Re: Question about Prascend

Viki <Vikityrrellart@...>
 


--
Viki in UK 2020
Hi. 
How long does everyone soak their hay for ? 


Re: Brood mare with laminitis

springbrook@...
 

She is all clean post foaling. 
--
Anna K
Western Australia
joined 2020


Re: Interpreting Hay Analysia

Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 

In the equi-analytical report, the first header under as sampled has two columns.  The first column at the end or bottom of the firat row says "as fed^.
--
Nancy and Vinnie and Summer
Oakley, Ca
Joined Nov 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245855

Summer
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie/Summer 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=249104


Re: Laminitis and Stabul1

Donna Coughlin
 

I'm very happy to be of help—passing it along as they say. I wish you the best of luck with your first mini! And your PPID mare. It was this group and its protocols that saved Duke in 2009 when he foundered and spent more time lying down than standing up. (See his Success Story on the ECIR website, line below.) And it's been Dr. Kellon's knowledge, the incredible moderators and Lavinia's trims that have kept him going. He is 44, I guess technically 45 now, and has been in my backyard barn for 23 years. He is the oldest horse in my vet's very large practice. He's feeling his age now, but still bright, alert, eating up a storm. He's on gabapentin because of a vestibular "attack" about 2 years ago, and I've kept him on it because there are still neurological vestiges of the disease (details in his looooong case history). 
Please trust the advice you get here, and both your horses will be fine, even with your not being at the barn full time!


--
Donna Coughlin, Duke, Robin Goodfellow, Ariel Max and Obi over the Rainbow Bridge (5/17)

CT 2009

 

 


ECIR Group Policy - Sat, 01/02/2021 #cal-notice

main@ECIR.groups.io Calendar <noreply@...>
 

ECIR Group Policy

When:
Saturday, 2 January 2021

Description:

Accuracy of Information

We take the importance of accurate information very seriously. The information in our posts and case histories is of tremendous value to all our members and is also used for formal studies. It is extremely important that it be factual. To protect the integrity and veracity of the group's data, a member may be asked at times to produce documentation, such as a copy of a report. These requests will be rare. Most of you will never receive one. 

 

Solicitation is Against the ECIR Group's Policy:

Whether directly selling a product or service or not, if you are contacted privately by someone, be suspicious. These communications frequently target new members or those in a crisis.  They almost universally push a position, product or service that the sender knows will not be upheld under close examination.

 

We welcome questions, suggestions and individual experiences from every member, but the bottom line is the welfare of the horse. ECIR Group approval is always based on provable facts and scientific methods, not opinions and belief.

 

Anyone who tries to bypass being challenged to support their position with properly assembled facts by sending unsolicited private e-mails rather than posting in the messages is, in our opinion, risking the welfare of horses and will be banned.

 

If you receive an unsolicited e-mail either ask the group about it, or forward the mail to main+owner@ECIR.groups.io 

Thank you for your cooperation.

 

The Owners and Support Team of the ECIR Group

 


Re: Interpreting Hay Analysia

Daisy Shepherd
 

what do you mean by as fed; my report comes as sampled column and a dry matter column  from equianalytical?  thanks, daisy and tiko
--
-- 
Daisy, Tiko and Whisper
CO, April 2019
Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Daisy%20and%20Tiko 
Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=90099&p=Name,,,20,2,0,0


Re: Laminitis and Stabul1

Buzz
 

Thank you Lavinia! I want to get some photos up as soon as I can. He's pretty sore to be trying to do it now. We did change trimmers and our new trimmer  just got the x-rays and will be out next week. Thank you again!
--
Marsha and Dame - Buzzy TN 2019

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Marsha%20and%20Dame%20-%20Buzzy


Re: jesse chrm screen labs in his folder

LJ Friedman
 

this article is above my pay grade but isn’t the take away that drugs like cabergoline  and pergolide do not help control insulin sensitivity?
--

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/320404761_Long-Term_and_Short-Term_Dopaminergic_Cabergoline_and_Antidopaminergic_Sulpiride_Effects_on_Insulin_Response_to_Glucose_Glucose_Response_to_Insulin_or_Both_in_Horses

LJ Friedman  Nov 2014 Vista,   Northern  San Diego, CA

Jesse and majestic ‘s Case History 
Jesse's Photos

 


Re: Update on Candy: Need help with Feed Issues and Blood Panel In

 

Shawn, in terms of editing the photo labels, if you open a photo in your album, you should see four buttons across the bottom.  The first is ‘Download’ and the second is ‘Edit’. If you select edit, you will have to option of relabeling the photo.
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Re: Interpreting Hay Analysia

Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 


Re: Interpreting Hay Analysia

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

You're right, Nancy, except for the Petaluma Meadow which looks like the #601 Equi-Tech.- an NIR test package.
I missed the sulfur, chloride and cobalt on the other three test results. My bad, those 3 tests are the #604.

In general, the #603 Trainer test is fine for balancing. The #604 Equine Complete adds testing for sulfur, chloride, cobalt, lignin, ash, fat to what is tested in the #603. We don't really need those numbers as a general rule so no need to spend the extra money.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


Re: Interpreting Hay Analysia

Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 


Re: Interpreting Hay Analysia

Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 

I suppose I could do a 644 carb pack to recheck each and starch.

604 I see I see is the equine complete. I was told that was the test used for the hay tests on my folder.
--
Nancy and Vinnie and Summer
Oakley, Ca
Joined Nov 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245855

Summer
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie/Summer 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=249104


Re: Interpreting Hay Analysia

Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 


Re: Update on Candy: Need help with Feed Issues and Blood Panel In

Shawn Gould
 

Hello Sherry,

Oh dear, so you use the first column "as sampled", correct? Ok, I use to do that and then I thought I was doing it wrong, regardless it is 11.9% in that column. I posted that analysis in the photo album.

This morning Candy left a lot of feed. I am desperate, so I soaked this grass hay and prayed she would eat it. She ate 2 pounds pretty quick. I gave her another 3 and she has been working on that all day. I THINK she WILL eat it overnight. The problem is she will not eat enough of anyone thing. If I give 6# Natural Balance Cubes, she eats 4. If I give 3# of Teff hay she will eat 2, that kind of thing. I weigh everything I give her and every morning I weigh everything to see what she ate. 

If I can find some grass or Teff hay that is palatable TO HER and the grass hay doesn't give her diarrhea and it is good esc + starch then I could work off that. But that is not what's happening now.  Maybe I will be able to give her more soaked grass hay and it won't cause diarrhea. She has never eaten more that 6# of the cubes. I wish I could just give her those, that would make my life easy. I wish I could give her Beet Pulp, but she really hates that. Just retried that recently.

Yes you can see and feel Candy's ribs. I posted body shots of her today as well. I also posted her most recent xrays which were taken just prior to her trim that took place that same day. I did poultice her LH for a week. Nothing dramatic happened, but she started putting more weight on it and  stopped favoring it while walking. I plan to post photos of her feet on Sunday.

I wonder if there are any reports of Jiaogulan or Phytoquench effecting appetite? I wondered about the Phytoquench, so I only gave her 1 dose yesterday and plan to do that today, but she really seems better with 2.  I read that its very safe in terms or increasing the doses per Dr. Kellon. It seemed like Candy's gums were a lot pinker, but less so today. Is it super obvious? She gets 1 scoop of laminox and 1 tsp of Jiaogulan 2 x daily. I was hoping the Jiaogulan would help with the weight shifting. She is a small horse so I didn't want to overdo it. Is there a photo anywhere of how pink the gums should be?  Despite the RF being the most compromised foot, today I felt no pulse there and the LF was slight. The most pronounced was the RH and then the LH. So stronger pulses in her hind feet, I guess because she has had to put more weight back there(?). The one thing I can say is if the jiaogulan is helping it would be with decreasing the digital pulses in front(?). 

Last but not least, I am having trouble issues with posting photos. I don't see how to label the photos. I am not allowed to delete the jpg info and relabel the pic in the box that says "select files" and even though I write in the description box, I don't see that posted either. And when I posted the xrays it put them in line with the other xrays and changed the order that I posted them in. I guess the good news is the Xrays are clearly labelled on the xray themselves, but I can completely understand why they should be labelled for easy id. Hopefully, I can remedy this without too much trouble.

Thanks again for your help,
--
Shawn and Candy
Dec 2020, Santa Cruz, CA
Candy Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Shawn%20and%20Candy
Candy Photo Album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=258140

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