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Re: Vinnie's latest and status

LJ Friedman
 

following the thread
what is the reason that banamine cant be used with invokana vs how i use invokana with prevacox?  thanks 
--
LJ Friedman  Nov 2014 Vista,   Northern  San Diego, CA

Jesse and majestic ‘s Case History 
Jesse's Photos

 


Re: Vinnie's latest and status

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Nancy,

Based on the latest rads, both fronts have coffin bones that are ground parallel, with the LF having an even more severely broken back HPA. This is is going to be a constant source of mechanical pain to some degree and will definitely exacerbate the arthritic changes as well. There has been no improvement is this aspect since the last set of rads done in 10-2020. In the June 2020 set, the LF had good bony column alignment so the goal should be to re-establish that. RF has been problematic in all the rads, with no changes for better or worse. Both still have toes that are too long horizontally with sole depth that hasn't increased significantly.

Trims need to leave the vertical heel height alone while shortening the horizontal toe length plus moving the breakover point back. Sole in the front half of the feet needs to be left alone. Without getting the trim tightened up, Vinnie can't get out of the loop the mechanics are trapping him in.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


New Member looking for help with EMS

redwards
 


Hello,

My horse has been diagnosed with Equine Metabolic Syndrome, after we moved to Tennessee from Florida.  He is 20 and I had him on a round of Thyroxine L and bute. He wore a mask when he was out of stall and it got a little better. A farrier suggested booties for front feet. 

His bloodwork was, I quote from the vet: 
"The normal range for the baseline insulin is 10-40 and Galeno’s was >200. His baseline ACTH level was 77.4. This time of year a value between 50-100 is equivocal and not diagnostic for PPID/Cushings at this time."

He had always been an easy keeper until we moved. So this is all new to me. I thought he would be ok to let out in the pasture because it's winter and the grass has died, but he has another flare up.

Also, he has white line, which he never had before. And there is some separation at the hoof wall. He did have xrays and there is no rotation of the coffin bone. I have been treating it with "purple" stuff from my farrier.  Sorry, I don't know the name.

I hope I'm posting in the right place. This is my first post. 

Thanks so much for any help.
Robin


Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S9+, an AT&T 5G Evolution capable smartphone


--
Robin E TN 2021


Re: Vinnie's latest and status

Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 

Hi Dr Kellon, he was out for maybe 10 mins and stood most of the time. He started to look like he was foot uncomfortable in the arena and I took him out.  Off banamine, this is how he always starts. He looks pretty good when he comes out of the stall, but gets more sore and it appears to come from the feet as he takes these weird mincy steps. 

Did the same last night when I did mini pulse..looked pretty good walking off, so decided to give him a roll and in 5 mins of standing waiting while I put my mare away he was foot sore with the mincy steps.

I can talk to my vet about a block.  Thank you soooo much!!
Nan
--
Nancy and Vinnie and Summer
Oakley, Ca
Joined Nov 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245855

Summer
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie/Summer 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=249104


Re: Vinnie's latest and status

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

He was moving really well when you first put him out. How long was he out? He's slower and more hesitant after but not dramatically so and it would have been more helpful to see him with both boots on and on the deep arena surface. Hard to say without nerve blocks  where any discomfort was originating. Depending on how long he was loose and how long he has been stalled (?), muscle/soft tissue soreness is possible, and he also has those advanced arthritic changes in the left pastern. Soft tissues soreness would also increase over the next 3 days before starting to resolve. Next time your vet is out it would be helpful to ask that both front feet be blocked to see how much difference it makes.

 I can't emphasize enough that the Jiaogulan can't work when you are using the Banamine. You also can't start the Invokana when still using Banamine. This is where the nerve blocks would really help with making some decisions. If blocking the feet makes a big difference, go flat out against lowering insulin.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Vinnie's latest and status

Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 

We did do 3 days UG and then I stopped because of the time issues, but just restarted so today will be day 3.  I personally feel like this is the veil. He never went back to being completely normal eating wise on prascend.  I am really considering dropping down the dose he is getting or removing it to see of it makes a difference since he isn't ppid.

Vinnie is just one of those horses.. he wears his heart on his sleeve and is really honest and can be very dramatic. (I think he found me for a reason...mirrors lol)

Thanks Jennifer me too...
--
Nancy and Vinnie and Summer
Oakley, Ca
Joined Nov 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245855

Summer
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie/Summer 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=249104


Re: Vinnie's latest and status

 

Nancy, my own experience has been that if my horses will eat hay but not bucket feed it’s time for an UlcerGard test, which in my book is 3-4 days of UlcerGard (at the GastroGard dose) to see if it makes a difference.
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Re: Vinnie's latest and status

Jennifer Murphy
 

LJ, maybe that's for existing customers?  If you use AmEx or an e-check, there's no extra charge. But I did have to pay for expedited shipping to get it within a week.  They also charge different prices for product of India, product of England, and product of Canada.  Canadian product will ship quicker than the others, but it's the most expensive option at $4.97/dose for 100mg.   My invoice even has a huge disclaimer about shipping times from other countries being up to 8 weeks. 

My vet is still skeptical about this medication, and I'm hoping it works.  Nancy, I hope you can get Vinnie on this, too, and it brings him relief. 

--
Jennifer in NH
2020

CH - https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jennifer%20and%20Flea

Photo album - https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=251041&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0


Re: Vinnie's latest and status

Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 

Vinnie refused his minerals and would not eat Phyto-quench tonight.  Left him eating haybthis evening. We will see if he eats his cubes by morning.  His stomach was kind of loud this evening too, so I am botbsuee if the Phyto-quench he ate this morning disrupted his gi a little. (He can have a sensitive tummy)

I think that part of him not eating his am cubes is pain response.  I have a bit of thinking to do, but for right now i think I will try to keep him in a low dose of banamine

I still would like to try invokana and maybe see if bringing his insulin down enables us to stop banamine.

One good news note is that his crest did seem softer and reduced now that he has been on 3 meals of the new orchard.  So that seemed to help. 

Thanks again. Nancy

--
Nancy and Vinnie and Summer
Oakley, Ca
Joined Nov 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245855

Summer
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie/Summer 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=249104


Re: Updated Candy's Hx, still shifting weight, need some input

Shawn Gould
 

On Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 05:04 PM, Nancy & Vinnie & Summer wrote:
Candy,  I don't have any guidance as you know me and Vinnie are in a similar boat. Just here for morale support as I know it helps me:)
--
Nancy and Vinnie and Summer
Oakley, Ca
Joined Nov 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245855

Summer
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie/Summer 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=249104

That’s right Nancy. It can be a hard and lonely walk to the barn. However, we are in this together, trying so hard to make the stars align and deliver our beloved horses from these horrible diseases. Thank you for your response.

 
 


 

--
Shawn and Candy
Dec 2020, Santa Cruz, CA
Candy Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Shawn%20and%20Candy
Candy Photo Album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=258140


Re: From then to now, some good news.

Lynn
 

Wonderful Pat! So much joy in that video! Thanks for sharing!
--
Lynn
Beavercreek, Ohio
March 2018
Relevante Case History
Relevante Photo Album

Ω


TSF 100 by Uckele

NinaJW
 

What are anyone’s thoughts on this supplement? I am planning to use it for the Iodine. I know salt is the preferred method but Jadon gets very loose stool anytime I add salt to his supplements.
He is currently on 1/2 lb Teff pellets (then soaked) 
4 oz of flax meal
Vitamin E w/ Selenium
Uckele Lamin-OX
***Amd will be adding the TFS 100

no grain only Orchard hay that tested at 7.9 NCD

as always suggestions and questions welcome
Thnx

--
Nina and Jadon
Kentucky 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nina%20and%20Jadon

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=244202


Re: Vinnie's latest and status

Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 


Re: Vinnie's latest and status

LJ Friedman
 

price pro shipped in 1 week  . no extra fees   .  cost is aprox $2.75 per tablet  300 mg
--
LJ Friedman  Nov 2014 Vista,   Northern  San Diego, CA

Jesse and majestic ‘s Case History 
Jesse's Photos

 


Re: Vinnie's latest and status

Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 

Vinnie didn't finish his obtbc cubes from lunch..he ate maybe 1/4 of them.  Finished his hay though. 

He was less sore than I expected but not as comfy as he had been on banamine..not panicking...

Starting mini pulse... fingers crossed I gave get some more phyto quench in him tonight and some of the jherb. He has laminox in his bucket and I added another scoop of jherb powder. 
--
Nancy and Vinnie and Summer
Oakley, Ca
Joined Nov 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245855

Summer
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie/Summer 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=249104


Re: Laminitis and Stabul1

Buzz
 

Hi Sherry!

I have finally had a chance to do this! It has been so much easier since I switched to a lap top vs a tablet.  Thank you for your patience and help!
--
Marsha and Dame - Buzzy TN 2019

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Marsha%20and%20Dame%20-%20Buzzy


Re: Updated Candy's Hx, still shifting weight, need some input

Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 

Candy,  I don't have any guidance as you know me and Vinnie are in a similar boat. Just here for morale support as I know it helps me:)
--
Nancy and Vinnie and Summer
Oakley, Ca
Joined Nov 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245855

Summer
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie/Summer 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=249104


Updated Candy's Hx, still shifting weight, need some input

Shawn Gould
 

Hello,

I have updated Candy's case hx., added X-rays and photos of her feet post trim and body pics. To summarize she is still fairly uncomfortable. She continually shifts her weight in the stall. She walks better in her soft rides on concrete than in her dirt paddock and has to be careful when she turns. I am soaking the grass hay, she is up to eight pounds of wet hay and has not developed diarrhea from this batch. I may be able to increase the Teff hay, which is at 2# now, but she may not want to eat anymore of that. She is up to 6# of the TC Timothy balance cubes, maybe she will eat a little more of those too(?). She has started Glycemic EQ for minerals, but that is not going to work as I have to hold it and continually sprinkle Timothy pellets and TC Sr. on it to get her to eat it. And I mean hold it. If I walk away from her she walks away from it. It took an hour and a half this morning. The TC Senior and Timothy pellets are the only way I have found to get her to eat supplements. Since that is problematic, I ground up the Glycemic EQ and going to try and syringe that from here on out. If I take that out, I will be less concerned about the senior, but tell me if you think 1 cup AM and PM is enough to fuel the insulin? She really needs the Phyto-quench, but that has required the Sr. I would actually like to increase the dose but it has been too hard to get her to eat it. She is the hardest horse I have ever had to feed. She will pick her way through any number of things. She will not eat Stabul or LMF. She will not eat beet pulp or safe sweeteners. She will not eat moist timothy cubes either. I am thrilled she is up to 6# of those dry and I don't want to sour her on those anyway. The Tim. pellets are 7.8% esc + s. She loves those, as I write this I think I will try to just do the pellets at a higher ratio to see if I can get her to eat the PQ w/o the Senior.

My goal is to get enough calories into her so she will gain a little weight. And I need to get the grass hay balanced, but if I use the Tim pellets for sups will that throw off the minerals?
I spoke to Cal Trace and Jennifer seemed to think their minerals would work because the hay and Tim pellets originate in CA. Their stuff is really expensive, but if Candy would eat it I guess it would be worth it. I guess I need to get samples. If anyone has any idea about a mineral package that tends to be more palatable.... and that is appropriate for her grass hay, please let me know.

I just increased the Jiaogulan one more time, to see if it would help Candy's comfort. Her gums are really pink now. I am just starting a Thyro-L wean because she certainly doesn't need it anymore. I know it takes 6 weeks. She is on 2 tbs of iodized salt and the Glycemic EQ like I mentioned, so I think this is safe to do now(?)

As soon as Candy gains a little weight, I think I need to revisit increasing the Prascend dose even though the she is within normal range she is puffy above her eye sockets.

My vet is recovering from the loss of her dad, but she recently contacted me to say she hasn't forgotten Candy, Dr. Kellon and the Invokana. I just keep on circling around all these variables I have outlined above. I need to get Candy comfortable.
Can Tylenol be given while on Jiaogulan? Since it works differently than bute and banamine, I thought that might be something easy I can syringe into her while I sort all this out. 

Thank you,

Shawn and Candy
Dec 2020, Santa Cruz, CA
Candy Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Shawn%20and%20Candy
Candy Photo Album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=258140


Re: Vinnie's latest and status

Jennifer Murphy
 

Nancy - my vet finally emailed an rx for invokana to the pharmacy in Florida that others had recommended.  Just to let you know, the shipping is 2 months out right now.  I ordered it anyway, then called Price Pro pharmacy in Canada.  I was able to get my rx filled there and with expedited shipping it should be here in a week or so, but that was an expensive option between the extra shipping cost and a fee for using a Visa card, plus they charge a little more for the actual medication.  Their regular shipping is 3 - 5 weeks, I believe is what the rep said.
--
Jennifer in NH
2020

CH - https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jennifer%20and%20Flea

Photo album - https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=251041&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0


Re: Vinnie's latest and status

Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 

In thinking about all this, and all the updates and downs I keep having.. agree we need to manage him off nsaids, but what if invokana would make all that difference?  I feel like that is where we need to.be, but the delay in getting him there is causing him more suffering.  

How much risk is there in starting ivokana now should I be able to get ahold of some?  I recognize this may be a little taboo, but honestly I am exhausted from seeing Vinnie go through this for as long as he has.

Thx Nancy
--
Nancy and Vinnie and Summer
Oakley, Ca
Joined Nov 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245855

Summer
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie/Summer 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=249104

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