Date   

Re: blood work - comments and suggestions welcome

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Frances,

He continues to have high insulin and type 2 diabetes. Pasture access is definitely out but you could use a sealed muzzle. The creatinine doesn't concern me but the protein level in the diet/hay needs to be checked. Elevated potassium is usually from hemolysis of the sample, not a true findings.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Behavior change with Prascend?

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Bonnie,

It's virtually impossible to tell whether behavior changes are a Prascend side effect or because the horse feels better when treated. We've seen it both ways.

Ulcers won't do this.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: blood work - comments and suggestions welcome

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Frances,

Need Dr. Kellon to chime in on the general blood work. Would you please add a copy of the CBC and chem panel results into the case history folder so that we can see the complete picture.

The ACTH result might not be accurate as it went to Antech. Do you know if the sample sent for the ACTH was spun and separated before being set to Antech?They do not process ACTH themselves, it is sent out, then they report the result. This means shipping the sample twice, which may increase the likelihood of degradation of the sample.

Insulin is in the range for precipitating laminitis and Phoenix has crossed the line into being frankly diabetic with that glucose number.

No pasture grazing. Have hay analyzed, then tightly mineral balanced. Stop alfalfa. Recommend stopping the Easy Willow as it contains yucca (increases insulin, can be irritating to the stomach) and MSM can interfere with copper absorption so should only be used if diet has been tightly mineral balanced.

Based on the photos in her album, trim needed attention . Current photos of the trim would be helpful to see what the current situation is.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


Re: Vinnie's latest and status

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Nancy,

I would encourage you to make one change at a time. Wait to see what his next labs show and take it from there.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Vinnie's latest and status

Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 


Re: Vinnie's latest and status

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

There's no reason standing around in the arena would make him worse. A more likely explanation is the excitement of being out temporarily overrides his discomfort and when he settles down he goes back to baseline.

--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Need help being removed from group

YHTI
 

Can someone assist me with removal from this list?  I do not have access to any of my Yahoo groups, nor the e mail I joined with. 

Thank you,
Linda Vishino
_._,_._,_


Re: Vinnie's latest and status

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

You shouldn't be using Invokana with Previcox. It increases the risk of kidney damage.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Vinnie's latest and status

Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 


Re: Vinnie's latest and status

Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 

My farrier is former teaching farrier from a vet school and has had many many many cases of sinking and laminitis much worse than Vinnie.  Vinnie has been doing fantastic until the insulin issue so I am going to.focus on that first.

Remember he was willingly trotting and cantering in Oct and we were walking 15 mins daily until after Thanksgiving. Late nov we started an issue with hay and prior to that I started to see metabolic changes that indicate insulin spikes.

I have to trust that my farrier knows what he is doing for Vinnie. We are growing sole and he has transformed his feet..distortion has improved considerably and he is finally growing as much medially and laterally. He still has about 6 months of growth needed to have a wall instead of laminar scar in the medial  side. Vinnie also has moderate bone loss on the lf p3. 

I do appreciate the feedback as food for thought however. :)
--
Nancy and Vinnie and Summer
Oakley, Ca
Joined Nov 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245855

Summer
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie/Summer 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=249104


blood work - comments and suggestions welcome

Frances C.
 

Vet check on 12.21.2020 for Phoenix. Blood draw at 10.30 am 60 degrees f. for ATCH, glucose, insulin.thyroid, cbc, and chem. panel. Results from Antech on 12.23.2020.
ATCH 21 (pg/mL)
glucose 155  (mg/dL) Ref. range 68-120 HIGH
insulin 85 (uU/mL) Ref. range 0-42 HIGH
creatinine 0.7 Ref. range 1.0-2.0 LOW
potassium (MEq/L) 5.2 Ref. range  2.4-4.7 HIGH
All else in normal range.
T-4 1.6 (ug/dL)  Ref. range 1.0-3.00

Comments and suggestions on this?
--
- Frances C.
December 2017, Washington & California
Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Frances%20and%20Phoenix
Phoenix's Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=12382


Behavior change with Prascend?

Bonnie Eddy
 

We got Zane last May for my 8 year old grandson who is a beginning rider.  Zane was very quiet and seemed fine with a child. No real problems at all.
Zane was from a rescue, had about 8  years of minimal handling and neglect. He is about 16 according to vet.
Zane showed signs of PPID with the seasonal rise occurring.  Had him tested in November and his ACTH came back 179 from Cornell. Started him on Prascend 1mg.  The repeat ACTH in December was 20.4.
He has since become increasingly "awake," has gotten forward, a bit belligerent at times, and has now bucked my grandson off. Complete change of temperament. 
He has recently been on bute for an eye injury.

I've been on this forum for a few years and have read about personality changes. I also realize the quiet Zane could have been lethargy. When it happens to you, it now becomes personal. My question is, is there any hope for this horse? 
I know there is no definite answer, just looking for a hopeful outcome.
"Could be" Prascend, with time it might get better, his true self, ulcers. (Started ulcer treatment).
If we keep this horse, I will then do a case history. 
He is on the PPID protocol feed wise.
Thank you as always for your insight and help.
--
Bonnie with Racham (over the rainbow) from Southern California, Nov/2016

Case History
Racham's Photos 
Ω 

 


Re: Updated Candy's Hx, still shifting weight, need some input

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Shawn, I'm sorry to hear Candy is still sore, but glad that you've got her feed intake up again.  Being willing to eat more could be a sign that she feels a bit better.  Probably getting her off the Thyro-L will help her appetite as well.

I'm not sure what pads you are using in her soft ride boots, but perhaps trying different pads or combinations is something you could do?   I am a fan of the Easy Care Comfort Pads and have used the 12mm green (soft) pads when my boy is sore.  https://www.easycareinc.com/Comfort_Pads/Comfort-Pads.asp

Others here have mentioned Happy Hoof Pads, which have lots of options to try and are well priced.  https://www.happyhoofpads.com/
They have a cheaper "starter kit" that allows you to try all the different ones to see which ones work best for your current situation, and the kits are 10% less than buying individual pads.  Some experimentation might be in order.

To me, her trim looks reasonably good, but perhaps some of our professional trimmers will have a few suggestions for you to try that might help.  Sometimes the smallest adjustment can make a noticeable difference, as I have seen in my own horse.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album


smashed windows - windows 10 that is.

Frances C.
 

Total crash of windows 10 seemed to occur on Jan. 5. - very odd - PC is just fine - tech savvy neighbor installed new windows 10 but all data lost. Thankfully I had updated and posted phoenix case history in Dec. so maybe some tech savvy person can send me a copy so I can put it on my desktop again. I have an old XP and all my emails were on that so emails were able to be restored. From these emails I have "mail delivery failure notifications" on Jan. 5 on digest numbers 3246 and 3247. Apparently I had sent something to Kelly Schwartz (?) and Ferne Fedeli had made a suggestion about the failure. I have a suspiction  that I caused this myself by sending out a Excel spreadsheet (windows) to some members who requested it via centurylink.net instead of sending it by outook.com.
So maybe windows doesn't like what I do and self imploded (lol)
--
- Frances C.
December 2017, Washington & California
Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Frances%20and%20Phoenix
Phoenix's Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=12382


Re: Vinnie's latest and status

LJ Friedman
 

sounds like new farrier eyes are needed? perhaps someone younger, willing to follow these steps listed??
--
LJ Friedman  Nov 2014 Vista,   Northern  San Diego, CA

Jesse and majestic ‘s Case History 
Jesse's Photos

 


Re: Vinnie's latest and status

LJ Friedman
 

following the thread
what is the reason that banamine cant be used with invokana vs how i use invokana with prevacox?  thanks 
--
LJ Friedman  Nov 2014 Vista,   Northern  San Diego, CA

Jesse and majestic ‘s Case History 
Jesse's Photos

 


Re: Vinnie's latest and status

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Nancy,

Based on the latest rads, both fronts have coffin bones that are ground parallel, with the LF having an even more severely broken back HPA. This is is going to be a constant source of mechanical pain to some degree and will definitely exacerbate the arthritic changes as well. There has been no improvement is this aspect since the last set of rads done in 10-2020. In the June 2020 set, the LF had good bony column alignment so the goal should be to re-establish that. RF has been problematic in all the rads, with no changes for better or worse. Both still have toes that are too long horizontally with sole depth that hasn't increased significantly.

Trims need to leave the vertical heel height alone while shortening the horizontal toe length plus moving the breakover point back. Sole in the front half of the feet needs to be left alone. Without getting the trim tightened up, Vinnie can't get out of the loop the mechanics are trapping him in.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


New Member looking for help with EMS

redwards
 


Hello,

My horse has been diagnosed with Equine Metabolic Syndrome, after we moved to Tennessee from Florida.  He is 20 and I had him on a round of Thyroxine L and bute. He wore a mask when he was out of stall and it got a little better. A farrier suggested booties for front feet. 

His bloodwork was, I quote from the vet: 
"The normal range for the baseline insulin is 10-40 and Galeno’s was >200. His baseline ACTH level was 77.4. This time of year a value between 50-100 is equivocal and not diagnostic for PPID/Cushings at this time."

He had always been an easy keeper until we moved. So this is all new to me. I thought he would be ok to let out in the pasture because it's winter and the grass has died, but he has another flare up.

Also, he has white line, which he never had before. And there is some separation at the hoof wall. He did have xrays and there is no rotation of the coffin bone. I have been treating it with "purple" stuff from my farrier.  Sorry, I don't know the name.

I hope I'm posting in the right place. This is my first post. 

Thanks so much for any help.
Robin


Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S9+, an AT&T 5G Evolution capable smartphone


--
Robin E TN 2021


Re: Vinnie's latest and status

Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 

Hi Dr Kellon, he was out for maybe 10 mins and stood most of the time. He started to look like he was foot uncomfortable in the arena and I took him out.  Off banamine, this is how he always starts. He looks pretty good when he comes out of the stall, but gets more sore and it appears to come from the feet as he takes these weird mincy steps. 

Did the same last night when I did mini pulse..looked pretty good walking off, so decided to give him a roll and in 5 mins of standing waiting while I put my mare away he was foot sore with the mincy steps.

I can talk to my vet about a block.  Thank you soooo much!!
Nan
--
Nancy and Vinnie and Summer
Oakley, Ca
Joined Nov 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245855

Summer
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie/Summer 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=249104


Re: Vinnie's latest and status

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

He was moving really well when you first put him out. How long was he out? He's slower and more hesitant after but not dramatically so and it would have been more helpful to see him with both boots on and on the deep arena surface. Hard to say without nerve blocks  where any discomfort was originating. Depending on how long he was loose and how long he has been stalled (?), muscle/soft tissue soreness is possible, and he also has those advanced arthritic changes in the left pastern. Soft tissues soreness would also increase over the next 3 days before starting to resolve. Next time your vet is out it would be helpful to ask that both front feet be blocked to see how much difference it makes.

 I can't emphasize enough that the Jiaogulan can't work when you are using the Banamine. You also can't start the Invokana when still using Banamine. This is where the nerve blocks would really help with making some decisions. If blocking the feet makes a big difference, go flat out against lowering insulin.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001

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