Re: New Member has uploaded Case History and Photos. Feedback on trim please?

Sherry Morse

Hi Judy,

Do you have the blood test results back yet to determine if China has elevated glucose or insulin?  Are you keeping her in boots since she's sore?  It appears from her pics that she has no sole depth to speak of so that alone could be making her sore.  Is she currently eating hay that she did not have an issue with?

Hoof Evaluation 1st time and UPDATE/HELP

Tamara Gonsor

Hoof Evaluation:

I have updated my case history and uploaded hoof pictures for 1st evaluation. If my trimmer is not doing what is necessary I will need to make changes on my own, which I am willing to do. 


His diet is dialed in according to the group. However, I am having the worst time with his taste for food. I have read so much on what to mix and try, all so far have failed.  His feet continue to improve but he is still very sore without boots and pads (walks well with them). He is still lethargic.

Since writing this, he will eat his supplements in beet pulp. Hope this lasts.  



My case history is updated with what we had done last year and to current, but the vet I had didn’t realize the importance of having all (ACTH/glucose/insulin) done at the same time. I think now I have found someone who is somewhat on board with what I’d like to do to follow this group, it has been a great challenge finding a vet who will work with me on all my requests. 


He was started on Pergolide 11/12/2020 and has now gotten up to just over 2mg, so we are going to draw blood again very soon. I just have a few questions to ask here so that I can get all needed. This is all so very expensive so I’d like to get all done at the same time. 

Based on where we are so far I’d like to know if I should have anything else tested while we draw blood?


I'd like to get a good history this year. What are the best times of year to test ACTH/glucose/insulin for PPID? 



I posted this in a separate message and received a message from another pharmacy didn’t get any responses of other members having the same issue, so posting in here as well. 

He is on a little over 2mg which is the 1.4mg fro Pet Health Pharmacy of pergolide because I can't get the 1mg of the active ingredient from them. They only compound 1.25mg OR 1.4mg, a little over or a little under of active ingredient. 

Question: He was on a little under 2mg of active ingredient (1.25mg each capsule) and then switched to the little over 2mg of active ingredient (1.4mg each capsule). Would this give me the veil? I mean, do they experience the veil with every dose increase/decrease? He has been on APF for 3 months now at highest dose 10ml.

Before I make any more dose changes wanted to get feedback here. 


He is still ribby which I now believe is because he is in pain. Any comments here would be good. He still has too many off days. From what I understand it is a matter of getting him really well managed? His body has changed for the better and his fat pads are disappearing, very slowly, since starting the NRC Plus class I understand why now. His cresty neck looks so much better. His mood and energy are still lacking. We are able to walk daily because he is comfortable to walk in padded boots.





Other questions:

  • How do I protect his kidneys from the drug? These drugs have to take a toll on other organs? 

  • I'm wondering if I am missing something with his ribbiness?

  • All in CH, I have him on uckele absorb all (daily) and the Psyllium Husk Fiber (per directions on bucket), should he be getting this daily?

  • I was wondering about putting him on the Phyto-Quech for the antioxidant properties and protection against oxidative stress? 

  • You can see from his “front” photo that his belly is quite big still. Anything else I can be doing OR is this more exercise? 

Tamara G. in Arizona 2020
Case History:
Malik Photos:

Re: Tooth breakage ??

christina Nordstrom

She’s on presend once a day. Thyroid L is twice a day. She’s on thyroid L bc of blood work over the years. She foundered a few years back and blood was taken and then vet put her on thyroid L and she’s been on it ever since bc her numbers never com back good. She’s IR and metabolic and now just this fall diagnosed Cushings. 

I don’t know what APF is. Her diet as of now is straight hay and she will be going on a ration balancer as well. Her diet was before this mainly hay with some senior to get her to take her meds. But once she started taking presend she stopped taking the grain so now all meds are administered via syringe. 

we have no idea how she is breaking her teeth, the vets think it’s bc of all the issues she has. 

yesterday they found no broken teeth but suspect one that they took a chunk off of may be bothering her but it is not loose. If that is not it, it could possibly be neurological. 

as for trying to get all the information up on here so you have it all. Like I stated in my first post. I have tried but I just don’t understand or can figure out how. 

thank you
Christina in MN 2020

Re: Vets vs Beet Pulp

Tamara Gonsor

Sorry Kirsten not Linda 

Tamara G. in Arizona 2020
Case History:
Malik Photos:

Re: Vets vs Beet Pulp

Tamara Gonsor

Linda thanks for the article, I hadn't seen that yet. 
Martha thank you for your info. I have learned my lesson here to always do my research (search bar) before commenting :). However, as you mentioned it doesn't always come up with what I am looking for.
Dr. K thank you for the "general rule". This is all very helpful!

Tamara G. in Arizona 2020
Case History:
Malik Photos:

Re: Vets vs Beet Pulp

Tamara Gonsor

Re: Invokana side effects - how common are they?

Jennifer Murphy

Thank you everyone who has offered to help with getting the medication - the generosity of the people here is phenomenal!  I did pay for expedited shipping, so I should have my Invokana by next week, Friday at the latest, so I'm going to just hang in there until it gets here.  I'm not expecting a miracle but I'm hoping for a better result than the Metformin has provided.  I was watching a video from 2015 of Flea galloping through the snow playing with my other mule, rearing, bucking, and just having fun.  I haven't seen that in a long time and I hope to see it happen again.

As far as the Phyto-Quench; I decided to just keep the powder and try it.  I added a half scoop to the mix last night and Flea wouldn't touch his meal.  My vet is concerned about Hyperlipidemia (I think that's correct) if he starts going off his food; it's noted in donkeys and miniatures, and him being a miniature mule, he's at risk.  She is adamant that whatever I give him, make sure he eats it all consistently.  I'm going to drop down to a tiny amount of Phyto-Quench and see if I can build it up. He did spend more time on his feet yesterday, so that's a good sign. 

Jennifer in NH

CH -

Photo album -,,,20,1,0,0

Message Posting Etiquette - Keeping ECIR User Friendly - Fri, 01/15/2021 #cal-notice Calendar <noreply@...>

Message Posting Etiquette - Keeping ECIR User Friendly

Friday, 15 January 2021

Message Posting Etiquette

This is a high volume group that can be difficult to follow. Help make it easier for everyone by following the Message Posting Guidelines below:
1) Sign your posts. This is a very large group.  Whenever posting a message, identify yourself and your equine by using your full ECIR Signature with your first name, location, the date you joined and the links to your Case History folder and Photo Album. The volunteers need all this information to provide quality responses and suggestions for local support, vendors, vets and hoof care. 
2) Be clear in your posts. If you need to quote a line this is most easily done using the web to reply (not from email). Once you have the message you want to reply to on your screen, copy the text you want quoted, then paste it into the reply message composer.  Highlight the text you are quoting and then click on the quotation marks in the toolbar.  
3) Be considerate of the Support Team. They volunteer to help members in their spare time. Many have full time jobs. Unless you are in an emergency read the Start Here Files and check the archives to see if your question has been answered before.  Many new member's questions are answered there.
4) Discussion should always take place on the forums so all members can learn from the conversation and the support team can help clear up confusion.  
5)  Try not to hijack threads.  Start a New Message or change the subject line to discuss issues not covered by the subject line.
6) Don't immediately re-post.  Give “missing” posts a few hours before reposting. For unanswered messages, be patient. A lack of response is not personal or a reflection on you in any way. With so many posts some do get missed. Unless in an emergency situation, wait roughly 48 hours before re-posting and edit the subject line with "2nd Try". 
7) Off-topic but horse-related discussions: ECIR Horsekeeping Forum provides a place to discuss issues involving non-PPID/EMS horses, general horse keeping practices, other equine health issues, alternative therapies and any equine related philosophical debates.
8) All discussion about horses with PPID and EMS takes place in the ECIR Forum. Hoof related discussion for horses that do not have PPID/EMS takes place in the ECIR Hoof Forum
 Thank you for your cooperation.
- The ECIR Group support Team

Re: NEW MEMBER - urgent advice needed for IR pony in constant pain

Lesley Fraser

Hi Jenny

I was just looking at the analysis of Thunderbrooks Hay Cobs - it doesn’t specify which grasses they use, other than more than 50 varieties of alpine grasses and herbs, but the analysis shows 11.13% 'Digestible Energy', 7.6% sugar and <2% starch, so it might be useful to avoid these ones for Dewi. For treats (and to hide his Prascend) I used the flax/cinnamon/apple sauce recipe in the ECIR files.

We don’t have access to feeds like Stabul 1 over here in the UK, but there are others around that fit in with the emergency diet when you check through their analysis and composition. There’s helpful information in the ECIR files on UK resources, which you’ve probably already come across, although I chose to buy most of Omar's supplements from My Best Horse in the US and I used DairyOne/Equi-Analytical (also in the US) for his hay samples. Getting his diet under control, his trim properly sorted out and having regular bloodwork done really turned things around for him. Omar’s over the rainbow bridge now, but that happened because of colic and very poor veterinary help, and not any IR or PPID related issues.

Best wishes
Lesley & over the bridge Omar,
2012, UK

Lesley, 11-2012

Norfolk, UK

Omar - Case History

New Member has uploaded Case History and Photos. Feedback on trim please?


Hi Everyone,
Here is some information to start with in the files below, will add hay sample and blood test results soon.

Can someone who knows please look at my trim and tell me what you see? I am starting to think the heels are too low but not sure.
China is on the Emergency diet but am not soaking the hay as the test came back at an okay starch level--4.3g/kg?. I was soaking the new seasons hay and feeding it to her but she got stiff gaited and tender to move on that hay, so a sample is winging it's way to Equi-Analytical.

Carol Layton is going to balance her diet for me once we have all the information gathered.  

I am worried China has sunk as her coronet band is squishy compared to her 3 year old Dry Lot buddy.  I am going to get her x-rayed next week if they can get hold of a machine. 

Many thanks for this amazing space and wealth of knowledge. :-) 
Judy B in New Zealand 2020
9 Shetlands 2 horses.

locked nutrient course for dogs and cats

Barbara Henry

Has anyone taken the dog and cat course? Does it come with a spreadsheet to work out meals? Thank you
Barb Henry

Barb Henry in Ca 2020

Re: Invokana and Vinnie update

Nancy & Vinnie & Summer

Would there be any benefit to starting l-arginine too for circulation? Or should I wait to see all the benefits of Invokana first.
Nancy and Vinnie and Summer
Oakley, Ca
Joined Nov 2018


Re: sore feet after a rain


Tori, it could be abscessing brewing. That is very common as the softer feet and soles move more allowing better blood and fluid flow. Any dead material is now going to be expressed out but it's typically painful.  Often seen after a period of drought then rain. 
Dawn Wagstaff and Tipperary   

Saline, MI  2003

Tipperary Case History

Juniper Case history: .

sore feet after a rain

Tori & Floss

Has anybody ever experienced their horse getting sore feet after being on wet ground after becoming sound after a bout of laminiits?
Could it be from feet getting soft? Thin soles?


December, 2016

Adelaide Australia

Case History




Invokana and Vinnie update

Nancy & Vinnie & Summer

Today was day 6 on Invokana and continue to see steady improvements. The heat in both feet has diminished. He is still very sore in the LF medially and laterally but the RF looks pretty good.  I am seeing his crest continue to shrink.

I am really hopeful.

I have increased tbe mini pulse treatments to help circulation. 

We changed from banamine to equioxx and plan on dropping to 1/2 a pill in two days if he can tolerate.

The left front is a little bit of a wild card because that is the foot that was still in the process of growing out from the abcess sinking laterally.

I am hoping he continues to improve.  🦄
Nancy and Vinnie and Summer
Oakley, Ca
Joined Nov 2018


Re: High ACTH for two mini horses, asking input on Vet's rec to start on Prascend - New Question for Dr. Kellon


Thank you!

Lynn Cox
Kern County, CA

May, 2007 

Bella Case History
Destiny Case History  .
Photos, Bella, Destiny, Zoe, Pip  

Re: jesse foot sore. equiciser

LJ Friedman

yes vet  used hoof testers,  will look to take lateral views 
LJ Friedman  Nov 2014 Vista,   Northern  San Diego, CA

Jesse and majestic ‘s Case History 
Jesse's Photos


Re: Invokana side effects - how common are they?

LJ Friedman

-- Commenting on invokana not being a magic bullet like Dr. Kellon mentioned, regretfully I have to agree. Jesse’s AC TH went high and that was on me because I switched up some medicines but I thought incorrectly that the pressure of the invokana will keep the insulin down to normal. And it has not. So I am trying to work this out but I just wanted to mention that invokana is not a magic bullet that I hoped it would be but certainly is almost  half a magic bullet?
LJ Friedman  Nov 2014 Vista,   Northern  San Diego, CA

Jesse and majestic ‘s Case History 
Jesse's Photos


Re: jesse foot sore. equiciser

Trisha DePietro

Hi LJ.  Did the vet/farrier test feet with hoof testers? And he was sensitive in all areas of the hoof? And did the farrier explain how the shoes would help and why? I like your idea of the boots for comfort while walking...and returning to a five week would be good to see a few more photos too....
Trisha DePietro
Aug 2018
Dolly and Hope's Case Histories
Dolly's Photos 
Hope's Photos 
Primary Responder

Re: Invokana side effects - how common are they?


Please start a *new thread* with a *new subject* so that Dr Kellon can efficiently sort out your request from all the other stuff in this thread. In your case, since your signature has no link at any case history, we have no idea which equine you are asking about and what the test results are without reading many posts. You really need  a CH. 
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse and Diamond Case History Folder                
Cayuse Photos                Diamond Photos

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