Date   

Re: Mild laminitis after dental

Joy V
 

Thank you Bobbie.  I think they do do it that way because they can do more horses in the visit.  


--
Joy and Willie (PPID/IR)
Nevada County, CA - 2019

Case history:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Joy%20and%20Willie
Willie's photo album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=242526


Re: Do PPID horses get constipated or is this age related gut issues or sand colic?

 

On Thu, Jan 21, 2021 at 04:40 PM, Stepht wrote:
I am wondering about daily psyllium because I read Dr. Kellon's Horse Sense blog about digestive issues in senior horses where she says that adding psyllium to every meal is helpful for swallowing and is also a prebiotic. Article here:   https://drkhorsesense.wordpress.com.   I was thinking that once I did a 7 day "purge" with psyllium that there may be a smaller maintenance/preventative dose given on a daily basis that older horses would benefit from
Hi, Stephanie. 
Does Katie have chewing problems? Colic vs difficulty chewing are different applications for psyllium. Dr Kellon's article addresses the older horse with chewing and swallowing issues. I read your long case history and see she's been on ODTBC for a long time. I don't see a current ACTH for Katie. Uncontrolled ACTH can cause muscle wasting, and that muscle wasting can cause diminished ability to chew. If she were mine, I'd want to know if her PPID is under control.

I have to leave the problem of eating shavings to others because I don't know much about it except it suggests she might not be getting enough chew time. I do all my feeding in 40 gallon Tuff Stuff bins to keep feed off the ground https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/tuff-stuff-products-heavy-duty-oval-stock-tank-40-gal

--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse and Diamond Case History Folder                
Cayuse Photos                Diamond Photos


Re: Overlapping supplements?

taskerudet
 

Hi Francine,

I used Metformin for several months and insulin kept increasing regardless of increased dosage. 
-- I stopped the Metformin and started WIRX with a significant decrease in insulin. The Cornell test results are in the case history. I do provide the group updated results when new tests are done but the decrease in insulin is routinely attributed to other factors like pergolide dose (same for more months than use of WIRX), diet ( not changed) and anything else to seemingly discredit the product. I appreciate this group tremendously and adhere to all the principles but do not understand the reluctance to consider this product as possibly useful.  Just my opinion. So far, the numbers show it is working for my Crackers.

Ellen
July 2011, Goldendale, WA
Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Ellen%20and%20Crackers
Crackers' Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=1645


Re: Metformin-When do you figure out if enough is enough.

 

Kandace, another factor which could elevate insulin is uncontrolled PPID.  Your last testing for ACTH was Dec ‘20 (you may want to check the date as you have ‘21 entered) was mostly out of the rise but still well above normal.
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Re: Mild laminitis after dental

LJ Friedman
 

wouldnt the quidding after a dental say things arent correct??
--
LJ Friedman  Nov 2014 Vista,   Northern  San Diego, CA

Jesse and majestic ‘s Case History 
Jesse's Photos

 


Re: Flea on Invokana

LJ Friedman
 

Why so many consecutive testing of the insulin ? Why not wait two weeks?
i predict tomorrow things will improve 
--
LJ Friedman  Nov 2014 Vista,   Northern  San Diego, CA

Jesse and majestic ‘s Case History 
Jesse's Photos

 


Re: Do PPID horses get constipated or is this age related gut issues or sand colic?

Cindy Giovanetti
 

I’ve read back through all the psyllium threads, and I’ve yet to read the recommended daily dose for mucilage (not sand purging) for those of us feeding flax seed.

 

Cindy


--
Cindy, Oden, and Eeyore, North Texas
On ECIR protocol since 2/19
https://www.facebook.com/LifeWithOden/
History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Cindy%20and%20Oden
Photos:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=91125


Re: Monster - 5-year-old Morab gelding

Cindy Giovanetti
 

Equine metabolic syndrome is a metabolic type, not something you caused.  In other words, he doesn’t have laminitis because you overfed him.  He has laminitis because he has EMS.  (Not all fat horses develop laminitis.)  No need to beat yourself up. 

 

Cindy


--
Cindy, Oden, and Eeyore, North Texas
On ECIR protocol since 2/19
https://www.facebook.com/LifeWithOden/
History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Cindy%20and%20Oden
Photos:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=91125


Re: Do PPID horses get constipated or is this age related gut issues or sand colic?

Stepht
 

Hi Cass,

The Progrooms link is very informative!  Thank you for directing me to that.  There is a link in the article on ideas to prevent horse from eating sand, and I see that it mentions shavings.  Katie does tend to nibble her dribbled food up off of her stall floor with probably a fair amount of shavings too.  Perhaps this is our problem.

I am wondering about daily psyllium because I read Dr. Kellon's Horse Sense blog about digestive issues in senior horses where she says that adding psyllium to every meal is helpful for swallowing and is also a prebiotic. Article here:   https://drkhorsesense.wordpress.com.   I was thinking that once I did a 7 day "purge" with psyllium that there may be a smaller maintenance/preventative dose given on a daily basis that older horses would benefit from.  I might be misunderstanding what Dr. Kellon was conveying in the blog.

Thank you again for all the great information!
--
Stephanie Thomson August 2, 2016

 

Liberty, Missouri

Katie Case History

Katie Photo Album  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6072

Katie Lab Values Folder  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Stephanie%20and%20Katie 


Re: Fecal Water Syndrome - Question about Psyllium Husk Supplementation

Cindy Giovanetti
 

Regarding your problem of feeding psyllium in a nosebag:

 

If you soak Triple Crown Timothy Balance Cubes, they get super fluffy (not soupy).  They could be fed in a nosebag.  Then, right before you feed, you could stir in the psyllium, so while the psyllium is not “wet,” it’s in a wet meal.

 

Disclosure, I have never done this with a cup of psyllium.  I feed psyllium by the tablespoon, and it mixes nicely with the fluffy cubes.  So, go slowly and see how this works for you.

 

Cindy

_._,_._,_


--
Cindy, Oden, and Eeyore, North Texas
On ECIR protocol since 2/19
https://www.facebook.com/LifeWithOden/
History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Cindy%20and%20Oden
Photos:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=91125


Re: Metformin-When do you figure out if enough is enough.

 

Kandace, 
You're right: factors other than uncontrolled EMS could be elevating your horse's insulin:  cold weather and pain. Pain can also make a horse fussy about eating supplements. That is a kind on inappetence. We have no way of knowing which factors are at work here. The only way I know to check the effect of metformin is an insulin blood test done with all the details described toward the bottom of this web page on Equine Metabolic Syndrome: https://www.ecirhorse.org/DDT+E-diagnosis.php

I do agree that syringing metformin is no fun. Please you ask your vet the dose of metformin that was prescribed. There is no point to going through the aggravation of syringing unpleasant tasting medication twice daily if the dose isn't sufficient. Here is the information file on metformin, including dose. https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/4%20Insulin%20Resistance/Metformin/Metformin%2008.08.20%20FINAL.pdf If you choose to continue metformin, consider syringing metformin using wild cherry-flavored milk of magnesia as a carrier. My horse had no mouth ulcers at all after I used milk of magnesia. Details in this post: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/256392  
--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse and Diamond Case History Folder                
Cayuse Photos                Diamond Photos


Re: Flea on Invokana

Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 

Hi Jennifer don't despair, it took almost 8 days for Vinnie to move more comfortably and I changed to a different boot and then modified breakover by.raspong the underside of the boot to make him more comfortable.  Vinnie is still in the process of healing and he still takes some mincy steps in hard surfaces of he hits the ground wrong. We were day 12 before I was 100% confident to wean off all rx pain meds.
--
Nancy and Vinnie and Summer
Oakley, Ca
Joined Nov 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245855

Summer
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie/Summer 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=249104


Re: Flea on Invokana

Jennifer Murphy
 

Socks, leggings, and a heat lamp in his stall.  I've never been able to find a blanket to fit him properly.  
--
Jennifer in NH
2020

CH - https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jennifer%20and%20Flea

Photo album - https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=251041&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0


Re: Mild laminitis after dental

Bobbie Day
 

Dang Joy
I’m sorry, this is why I have refused Desi’s dental work for the last two visits. Both dentists that come to my area sedate and use the power tools. It takes my other horses a week to bounce back so I just don’t dare take the chance with her. I cannot for the life of me find someone qualified that will use the hand tools.
I wonder why they insist on the drills and speculums? Maybe because it’s faster?
I don’t know, I feel bad she hasn’t had them done for awhile though.
I hope Willie feels better soon.


--
Bobbie and Desi
NRC Plus March 2020
Utah, Nov 2018

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Bobbie%20and%20Desi

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78821


Re: Overlapping supplements?

lamarleau@...
 

OMG for once it's canadian 😀 Does anybody have their horses on metformin and this supplement?
I tried to reduce metformin to once a day and his insuline went back up. Wonder if this could help.
Thanks

--
Francine & Magic in Quebec Nov 2020
Was a member 10 yrs ago with Shamy


Re: Mad Barn - quality control

Trisha Bentley <bentley-acres@...>
 

My vet was strongly recommending Insulinwise for Monster however, I stood my ground and said I was happy with the IR supplement from Mad Barn.  When they gave me their datasheet I was unimpressed by their studies and findings promoting their product done at 30-60-90 days.
--
Trisha Bentley, AB, 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Monsters%20Case%20History
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=259610


Re: Flea on Invokana

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

How are you protecting him from the cold?
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: timothy versus coastal Bermuda for IR horse

 

Hi, Vicky,
I always feed coastal. I test all batches and my ESC and starch have always been below 10% ESC and starch combined. That doesn’t mean that all coastal is safe for EMS/PPID equines. As you already know, the only way you’ll know for sure is to test. 
--
Fran in Texas

ECIR Board of Directors

7-2005

Ford, Tinker and Dancer

Ford Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Fran%20and%20Ford%20-Tinker/Ford

Tinker Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Fran%20and%20Ford%20-Tinker/Tinker

Dancer Case History  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Fran%20and%20Ford%20-Tinker/Dancer%20Case%20History.pdf


Ford Photos:

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/photos/albums/1214900120

 

 


Re: Overlapping supplements?

 

Valerie, it’s a relatively new product, developed by a group on Vancouver Island, BC, where they seem to have a high incidence of IR horses.  If you search the messages, rather than the files, you will find more discussion.
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Re: New member. Sore pony

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

The CR Pro Fibre Crunch was analyzed by Mad Barn and found to have WAY over the 10% cut off, with 16% starch!  Definitely do not feed this to your mini.  Better to feed the hay soaked.  I have been giving 1/2 cup a day to my full size horse as a taste tempter, but dropped it to 1/4 cup once I saw the Mad Barn analysis and am considering dropping it altogether as it is not needed.

Turmeric is not recommended either.  But without bloodwork you don't know how severe your mini's EMS is.  This group really operates on Diagnosis first.  You can make dietary and trim changes right away of course, but always keep in mind that without a diagnosis you don't know what you are dealing with and how severe it is.  If PPID is part of this, too, you can make all the dietary changes you like but the disease is only controlled with medication so all your other efforts won't prevent disease progression and laminitis.  Highly recommend getting baseline (non fasting) insulin, glucose and ACTH checked.

-- 
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album
--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album

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