Date   

Excel balancing worksheet?

Carol
 

Is there an excel balancing worksheet available?  I just got 2 lots of hatmy tested.
--
Carol in Maryland 2008
Rossi (over the bridge)


Re: Finding a source of jiaogulan

Maria Duran
 

I have found these ones:

- Extract https://www.amazon.es/Paradise-Herbs-Jiaogulan-12-Vegetarian/dp/B001AZV5GM/ref=mp_s_a_1_fkmr0_1?dchild=1&keywords=jiaogulan+molido&qid=1611331695&sr=8-1-fkmr0

- Dried leaves https://www.amazon.es/gp/aw/d/B07B3TN1NQ/ref=psdcmw_6347544031_t1_B00901D6LU

Dr. Kellon please,

- How do I know if the concentration of gypenosides is correct? The extract says 12:1, what does it mean? How many capsules of this product would equal 2.5 g of ground leaves of jiaogulan?

- Can the second product be used at the same weight per weight as if it was the ground leaves of is it recommended to use more if not ground?

- Which one would be a better option?

Thank you very much.

--
María Durán Navarro 
Dec 2017
Madrid (Spain)

Plutón´s Case History
Plutón´s Photo Album
_._,_._,_


Re: Overlapping supplements?

Nancy C
 
Edited

Hi Sandi and Ellen

To all not introduced to WIRX: WIRX is cinnamon and cranberries.  Very expensive cinnamon and cranberries.  Cinnamon is used in humans for lowering glucose.  It has been trialed here extensively and not found to be effective on equines, my own diabetic gelding included. Unless there is new info that I am not aware of, use of cranberries are not supported. 

The web site talks about trialing and miraculous results, and we had asked for info on the same from the supplement maker back in 2017 but to date, have not received any.  From member reports, it was appearing that results were confounded by change of season, weather temps, and other factors introduced at the same time. In other words, it was not the WIRX. Members who trialed it found in the end it did not work.

Sandi - Could you please fill in the details of this drop? As I said it is not clear from your case history as to the timing of blood tests, administration of the supplement, and retesting, which could have a huge impact. Ambient temps could make a big impact too.

I am certain you are seeing what you are seeing Sandi, just want you to consider all the facts and supply us with more detail please.  It is a foundational protocol for ECIR to pull apart claims and your info will help others.

We know from years of seeing members in the PNW that it is very high in iron and manganese, which drives iron overload. This makes getting the copper and zinc recommended to you by Dr Kellon into your mare very, very important.

Hi Ellen - Thanks for all your detail. Your pergolide dose was last updated in 2019, where it was increased by 0.5 mg, and there has been no change since,is that right? You have highlighted your 2020 lab results (thank-you) which shows a glucose of 77, which would concern me about handling. Even with the reduction crackers is still IR by G:I ratio. I do see where your other lab results have reduced along with the start of the WRIX in 01.2020. I also note the ambient temps of your highest readings were well below 50. Cold weather will raise insulin. The insulin comes down as the weather warms and temps rise.

Hope you will keep us further informed as you do more testing. Thank you for your details.

--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2019-2020
Join us at the 2021 NO Laminitis! Conference, August 12-15, Harrisburg, PA


Re: Overlapping supplements?

Lorna Cane
 

Hi Shera,

What time of year did you use it?

--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


Re: Overlapping supplements?

Shera Felde
 

I do attribute Story's reduced insulin to WIRX. 4-5 weeks on it and it came down over 100 pts. Sandi, who developed it, is very helpful and told me she created the specific cranberry and cinnamon combination after losing her horse to laminitis. She's on a mission. https://gsorganicsolutions.com/wirx/ 

It is certainly more sustainable for me than Metformin.
--
Shera Felde, Central Oregon, 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Story%20and%20Shera
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=253720


Re: Mild laminitis after dental

Ronelle
 

For your horse's TMJ, have you tried a chiropractor?  My horse's chiro likes to do an adjustment about a week after any dental.  It has helped my horse.
--
Ronelle and Yoyo
2015 Bend, Or, US


Re: Flea on Invokana

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Just a note that Boehringer Ingelheim holds a patent on the use of all SGLT2 class drugs in horses for control of insulin https://patents.google.com/patent/US10864225B2/en . No other company will be able to market it for this use.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Metformin before Invokana?

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

If you aren't taking measures against cold induced pain I would do that first, regardless of insulin number. Adjust pergolide if needed. I generally recommend trying metformin first but just get a 10 day supply and retest insulin after 5 to 7 days. If it's working, keep going but retest monthly or by signs.

Metformin has a longer history of use and is much less expensive.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Metformin-When do you figure out if enough is enough.

Jennifer Murphy
 

My little mule has gone up and down over the course of the last 3 years.  In 2020, we drew blood 6 times.  4 of those times showed insulin over 200, two of the tests showed insulin well over 100.  All that time he was on a strict diet and Metformin.  He would pick at his food, but he'd eat at least 80-90% of it, so he was definitely getting some quantity of the Metformin into him, and for the last six months he only had 2 days that he didn't get any at all.  The numbers just proved it wasn't working in any capacity, and it was time to go a different route.
--
Jennifer in NH
2020

CH - https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jennifer%20and%20Flea

Photo album - https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=251041&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0


Metformin before Invokana?

Nancy Kitchen
 

There is a possibility that I will have a second horse that will need either Metformin or Invokana to lower insulin.  I am awaiting blood results;  He is PPID/IR and we had it under control with diet,  but his mincing steps on hard ground made me suspect so vet drew bloods.  I believe Tucky's ch is uploaded correctly.
My question is, if we decide to try medication to control insulin, do we need to use Metformin first?  Or could we start with the Invokana first?  I can't seem to find the answer in the search.
Thank you
--
Nancy K
Smoke and Tucky
November 2018, Southeast, MA

Smoke Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Smoke
Smoke Photo Album:    https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=94122
Tucky Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Tuck 
Tucky Photo Album:


Re: Mild laminitis after dental

Joy V
 

Hi Cass,  

I'll be getting him tested again in the spring but you could be right.  Although, his PPID was so low at his recheck I do think it was controlled during the rise.  The IR however is a different story.  But the last time I had him tested I hadn't been able to get him on tested hay yet.  Since he's been on tested hay, he has been doing better and better lameness wise and all his symptoms had resolved.  I will ask my vet for 2 separate samples so 1 set can be sent to Davis.  He is resistant to sending them there, but I'm sure he will if I pay for it ...  

For this float, the vet used a support and did release the speculum 3 times during the float.  Willie had no ulcerations, and his mouth was in pretty good shape, so the float was quick, about 15 minutes.  And yes, Willie was over drugged, poor guy.  It took about an hour to get him from the big barn on the property back to his paddock.  It's about a 5 minute walk normally.

Thank you for weighing in Cass, I have a lot to consider and think about. 


Willie was looking better last night.  I did not dose with Banamine.  I'll see how much he used his shavings pile when I check the game cam this morning.  On a fantastic note, the tenant at the barn who liked to sneak feed Willie sugary snacks has been evicted and is off the property.  So glad about that.

Thank you all for your suggestions and thought provoking questions.  I'm so grateful for this group!


--
Joy and Willie (PPID/IR)
Nevada County, CA - 2019

Case history:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Joy%20and%20Willie
Willie's photo album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=242526


Re: Mild laminitis after dental

Joy V
 

Thank you Trisha, I am going to the links now.  I really appreciate you taking the time to respond and get me those links!


--
Joy and Willie (PPID/IR)
Nevada County, CA - 2019

Case history:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Joy%20and%20Willie
Willie's photo album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=242526


Re: Overlapping supplements?

Lorna Cane
 

The archives came up with this,from one of the principals of the company.Many more messages there,Ferne.

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/245239?p=,,,100,0,0,0::Created,,WIRX,100,2,0,68802723


--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


Re: Overlapping supplements?

Lorna Cane
 


Concern over hoof Bulge

deb@...
 

I am concerned over this bulge in the new hoof growth on Kodys front left. It's on the lateral wall at the coronet band. It extends about 20mm. The rest of the hoof has a flat connection.  I have uploaded a photo in my photo album.

I am also still concerned that I am feeding the wrong thing. I thought I was feeding as per the guidelines but Candace Piraino stated his diet needs an overhaul but I have no idea what needs to change. I've been stressing for the last couple of days not knowing what I'm doing wrong and despite asking I have had no other feedback. I appreciate all help and understand that people are busy but I am stressed to the max trying to work out what is right and what is wrong as I have had so much conflicting information and I'm trying to get it right. If people have the time to tell me I'm doing something wrong, I would really appreciate it if they could perhaps take a minute to tell me what is wrong about it and what I need to fix.

Thank you all so much for your feedback. Deb
--
Debbie Rainbow
Western Australia
2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Debbie%20and%20Kody
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=259494


Re: Flea on Invokana

Jennifer Murphy
 

LJ, my vet and I are sharing the results with a pharmaceutical company, and in exchange they're paying for the blood work.  They have a specific schedule that they want us to follow.  It was supposed to be 24 hrs. before the first dose, 24 hrs after the first dose, then 1 week, 2 weeks, 1 month, etc. but Cornell spun a sample they weren't supposed to on the 24 hrs post dosage, so we had to pull a 3rd sample. 

Nancy, thank you for that.  I'm hoping we'll see results soon.  :) 
--
Jennifer in NH
2020

CH - https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jennifer%20and%20Flea

Photo album - https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=251041&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0


Re: Overlapping supplements?

ferne fedeli
 

What is WIRX?  I Googled & got a radio station, pharmacy, etc.

--

Ferne Fedeli  Magic & Jack   2007

No. California
Case History

 

 


Re: New member. Sore pony

Charmyn
 

Hello,
ok, so I won’t feed the pro-fibre crunch.  
I’m curious why tumeric is not recommended?  It is It is such a great anti-inflammatory and pain killer.  

I don’t know what to feed him right now. 


 I am waiting for the hay test results to come back on my hay and southern hay.  I have raked up all the straw.  I am feeding him soaked and rinsed beet pulp.  I would have to move him in order to be able to soak his hay, but then I couldn’t be there to feed him.  Soaking hay uses up our very limited water for my entire family (we just recently got running water, we use to live off of blue jugs).  Once summer is here we can use rain water and it would be possible to soak hay.  


If it needs to be 10c to test him then we will have to wait until May to test him.  I can ask my vet.  Can we just take him inside, where it is warmer, for a period of time to get the test?  Right now it’s -20c. 

It is re-occurring laminitis, but since I got him a year ago he has been fine living on our hay in his diet/grass-less pen with his buddy.  

where would I upload the pictures to? 


thanks,

--
Charmyn 
Yukon, Canada
joined Jan 2021


Re: Emergency Help for Horse with EMS, Trimming

Laurie
 


--
- Laurie and Rio
Cloquet Minnesota
February 2017

Case history - https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Laurie%20and%20Rio 

Rio's Photo Album - https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=79114


Re: Mild laminitis after dental

 

Joy, you're right that banamine isn't going help Willie's laminitis, and I suspect that it may counter the beneficial effects of the cannabis, or that's the theory with humans. One thing that comes to mind is that Willie's EMS and PPID aren't well-controlled. As a result, the insulin spike following sedation might have had a greater effect. Another possibility is that Willie's EMS and PPID weren't well-controlled during the seasonal rise and you're seeing the delayed effects independent of the dental float. This happened to me a couple of times, with a higher ACTH in January than in late October. Very frustrating. I note that you're using Loomis Vet's diagnostics, and the assay used for PPID is different from the one used by Cornell. It might be time to get comparable blood work results from Cornell. I once sent blood samples to both UCDavis and to Cornell from the same blood draw. Results were within the normal range at UCDavis, outside the reference range for ACTH at Cornell.

My experience with dental floats doesn't match the generalizations. Not doing dentals because of the pandemic lead one of my mares to have lacerations inside her cheeks from lack of care. I know Dr Kellon advocates a sedation-free float with hand tools, but my experience with a skilled equine dentist has been excellent since 2013. She uses minimal sedation with power tools. I've never had a horse bleed or have a sore mouth for a minute after a float. My mares are ready for the next meal. The veterinarian who administers sedation uses less sedation on my 1150 pound Paint (an admitted light-weight) than poor Willie had. She supports the horse's head while the horse has the speculum in its mouth, and she releases the speculum at least twice during the float, which takes 15 - 20 minutes total for each horse. Most of the time is spent staging. Skill and finesse go a long way. My three EMS mares never had adverse reactions to sedation, but it's done with a light touch. 

--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse and Diamond Case History Folder                
Cayuse Photos                Diamond Photos

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