Date   

Re: Asking for input on test results (ACTH, Insulin) for Bella & Destiny

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

30 mg/kg - 4145 mg twice a day. Closest you get to that is eight of the 850 mg twice a day.

--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: PEA

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 
Edited

PEA-um is ultramicronized which should increase absorption and is the most well studied. I use https://www.elevationterpenes.com/collections/pea . The dog is getting a high dose, 400 mg (she's about 70 - 75 lbs) but only once a day. I'm taking 600 mg twice a day. Horses, average size, 2500 mg twice a day.

The early responses are nice to see but it sometimes takes several weeks for full response. That always makes me suspicious  that other factors were operating but in the case of my shoulders for example they had been like that for many years and nothing else was changed. Not even sure how long it took because I don't normally push my luck with it but noticed about 3 to 4 weeks in that I was able to do a move that normally would be impossible. Give it time.

A nice thing about it is that PEA is tasteless. Also adheres well. Even the ultramicronized will not "puff up" when the horse eats. I take the powder plain between meals but the animals get it with food.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Photo Quench???

Cheri Tillman-Anderson
 

Thanks, Lorna and Kirsten - I'm giving Phyto-Quench now but want to look into Mov-Ease.  I appreciate the info.
--
Cheri
May 2020 New Mexico
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Cheri%20and%20Chama


Re: Asking for input on test results (ACTH, Insulin) for Bella & Destiny

lynnc66
 

Thank you Dr.  Kellon. 

What would be the dosage of Metformin for Bella?  She is currently 304 lbs.
--

Lynn Cox
Kern County, CA

May, 2007 

Bella Case History   https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Lynn%20and%20Bella
Destiny Case History  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Lynn%20and%20Destiny  .
Photos, Bella, Destiny, Zoe, Pip   
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=247665  





Re: Ventral Line Edema and PPID

Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 


Re: Ventral Line Edema and PPID

Frances C.
 

Ventral line edema - my mare has this condition but it does not seem to vary much - a hard leadrope like structure that my vet thought was maybe fat but I don't think so. Incidentally this mare's sire who was PPID/IR also had this edema. We too endured the recent storm where the horses huddled in their inadequate shelter for five days. If this had been snow rather than rain all the buildings would have collapsed so we have something to be thankful for.
--
- Frances C.
December 2017, Washington & California
Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Frances%20and%20Phoenix
Phoenix's Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=12382


Re: Ventral Line Edema and PPID

Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 

Hi Dr Kellon, Summer is worked every day for at least 30 mins at walk trot canter. 

Would a stress response from the wind rain and roof almost coming off play a role st all?

Thanks Nan
--
Nancy and Vinnie and Summer
Oakley, Ca
Joined Nov 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245855

Summer
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie/Summer 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=249104


Re: Asking for input on test results (ACTH, Insulin) for Bella & Destiny

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Bella needs a higher dose to get her ACTH well within normal.  Repeat ACTH in 4 weeks. Try metformin first but if repeat insulin after a week is not dramatically better I'd go to Invokana.

Same fence-sitting on keeping Destiny on pergolide. Considering her age I'd probably take her off and repeat ACTH and insulin in 4 weeks. Put her back on early to mid August.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: PEA

Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 

I think I am going to try this for me and my dogs and maybe Vinnie again.

I have a frozen shoulder that I had injected last year but range of motion is reduced again and painful.

I have four dogs, two pit mixes Molly and Rawlee age 7 in March with arthritis of the knees, and  mix breed  Hayley 14 with advanced arthritis in her spine and Oliver who is 10 and he knock wood doesn't show any symptoms yet.

And of course we know Vinnie :) he does that hiking up the hind leg and doesn't release during Farrier appts.  I have always thought it was hip soreness or lumbar because he is always tight in those areas. And of course the recovery from laminitis.

I am going to stop DC because I think he is having tummy response to it.. he seems to go off food more when taking DC. And I want to see if the Jherb helps the feet w/o the DC interrupting.

Is there a difference between PEA and PEA um?

Thx Nan
--
Nancy and Vinnie and Summer
Oakley, Ca
Joined Nov 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245855

Summer
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie/Summer 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=249104


Re: Ventral Line Edema and PPID

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Nancy,

This has been reported with pergolide but also sounds like you have a strong component of not moving around enough.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: PEA

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Debbie,

Thank you for the report. Her reaction during trimming before you started the PEA also sound like Stringhalt or Shivers (were her muscles quivering?). That would make sense too since these are neurological issues. More  voluntary movement is a good indicator of reduced  discomfort.

I agree with your experience with back pain. Radiculopathy symptoms of shooting pain, tingling and numbness are greatly reduced but it doesn't seem to do much for muscle spasm. I also had a problem with "frozen shoulders" and reduced range of motion but that has completely disappeared.

My old dog has a bad hip and probably spinal issues as well that were controlled well on high dose MSM - until they weren't when the really cold weather set in. She was limping badly, slow and stiff all over, very resistant to getting up. She was dramatically better within 24 hours and by 3 days moving better than she has in years.

It remains to be seen if it can be of much use for acute laminitis  but should be helpful with longstanding laminitis pain.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: PEA

Joy V
 

Debbie, can I ask where you're purchasing the PEA-um? 

Thank you!
Joy


--
Joy and Willie (PPID/IR)
Nevada County, CA - 2019

Case history:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Joy%20and%20Willie
Willie's photo album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=242526


Re: Metformin-When do you figure out if enough is enough.

Lorna Cane
 

Kandace,what taste tempters have you used to get her bucket food into her?
And have you mixed them into mixture, or sprinkled them on top?

Years ago, Patti K.,one of our long-time members, told of us of something that she tried once because she was in a rush to get to work.She just topped the bucket feed with the minerals needed,instead of mixing them in. To her surprise (and delight) buckets were empty when she got home.
I've had success with that,too. My theory is that they get the minerals plus mush in first mouthful,and it goes down, making the rest of the bucket unadulterated,so to speak. Dunno.
But it's also a way ,with taste tempters, to get the mixture eaten.Just sprinkled on top.And not necessarily a lot. I've used wheat bran for this ,sometimes.
Wheat bran is not recommended. But I was desperate,and  used everso little .Just a whiff really. It meant that the rest of the bucket got eaten.

--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


Re: Metformin-When do you figure out if enough is enough.

Lorna Cane
 

Thanks Kandace.
I read the CH to say that the BP has molasses,so that's why I asked.

Perhaps soy hull pellets would be an acceptable carrier for her.

--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.phpHave you be an acceptable carrier


Asking for input on test results (ACTH, Insulin) for Bella & Destiny

lynnc66
 

Test results from Cornell for 1/21/21 show lower ACTH for both Bella and Destiny.  And higher insulin for Bella. I've updated their Case Histories.
 
They are both on 0.5 mg of Prascend, and I'm considering continuing Bella's Prascend as per Dr. Kellon's input: "As I said before, the big unanswered question is whether these early cases benefit from pergolide year round. I don't know the answer but would probably be inclined to keep Bella on it because of her laminitis history."
 
And I'm not sure what's best for Destiny - to keep her on Prascend year round or not.
 
Brief summary:

Bella:
In Feb, Bella was diagnosed by vet with laminitis. Her feet are still sore, but much improved with boots. She stands square, with no founder stance. She walks around the dry lot and keeps up with the other horses.  
Insulin  >200 in July,  135.85 in Oct,  >200 Jan 21, 2021
ACTH was 29.2 in Feb, 139 in Oct, 39.7 Jan 21, 2021 
 
Destiny:
The vet called Destiny obese in February. I've been exercising her at the trot, about 25 minutes 3x/week, she has lost 75 lbs, and is at her ideal weight now. She is sound, no issues with laminitis.
Insulin  > 200 in July,  31.67 in Oct, 39.4 Jan 21, 2021.  
ACTH was 19.2 in Feb, 318 in Oct, 17.2 Jan 21, 2021
 
Asking for your input and advice please, especially on the following:
 
1)  Dosage of Prascend for Bella
2)  Keeping Destiny on Prascend year round?
3)  Starting Bella on Metformin or Invokana
4)  When to retest ACTH
 
Thank you,
           
Lynn Cox
Kern County, CA
May, 2007 

Bella Case History   https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Lynn%20and%20Bella
Destiny Case History  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Lynn%20and%20Destiny  .
Photos, Bella, Destiny, Zoe, Pip   
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=247665  





Re: Metformin-When do you figure out if enough is enough.

Kandace Krause
 

Yes to hay
Yes to R/S/R BP
No molasses
Refuses mineral mix  from Mad Barn
Salt is small because carrier is small cubes and BP, and she is refusing to eat since the clinic.
So going slow getting her back to taking in what she needs.
--
Kandace K Rocky Mountains, Alberta, Oct 2
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kandace%20J%20and%20K
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=259062


Ventral Line Edema and PPID

Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 

Hi 

Has anyone experienced ventral line edema in conjunction with some related effect of PPID.

This week we had a horrible wind storm causing a bit of havoc at the barn, Summer had clearly been pacing in her paddock and I noted yesterday that she had some ventral line edema starting in front of her udders and then settling in two patches adjacent to her sternum bilateral.

Today the edema seems to have traveled down her front legs.  And with movement it did dissipate.

Is this symptomatically PPID or is this something else?  She also had a bit of GI disruption from presumably stress, so not sure if I was related to that.

However I will say she had a similar episode this time last year but the edema was worse in the front legs.  Could this be related to an-eatrus and is there anything I need to ne on the watch for insulin wise or ppid?

She is on 5mg estradiol and 0.50 prascend.
--
Nancy and Vinnie and Summer
Oakley, Ca
Joined Nov 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245855

Summer
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie/Summer 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=249104


Re: Form A Hoof https://www.formahoof.com/

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Tamara,

There's nothing wrong with using boots almost 24/7 if needed.  To use formahoof or anything of that nature you need to have a proper trim in place so you still need to start with that before adding anything else in.  You can do a search on previous discussions of it in our archives, but here's the first time it was mentioned : https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/topic/6408178#214723




Re: Help new irs diagnosis

Jess
 

Thanks I will make sure to switch her feed ASAP. With insulin resistant horses how do you transition the diet? Do you just switch or do a gradual change?


--
Jessica in Michigan, 2021


Re: Metformin-When do you figure out if enough is enough.

Lorna Cane
 

Hi Kandace,

Thanks for working on CH.

Just to be clear....is she being fed

 18.5 lbs hay and cubes total ?
  .25 oz iodized salt?
  2 oz bp....molassed...Is this soaked/rinsed?
  No minerals....refusing?
 
--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php

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