Date   

Re: InsulinWise

martha williams
 

Just my two cents worth: Vet strongly recommended Insulin Wise. We used this expensive stuff for a long time, then vet said double the dose. No improvement whatsoever.
Serious junk. Don’t waste your money....
Of course we follow ECIR protocol to the letter - Always have, always will....
Williams/Dubrow ‘08.

On Feb 26, 2021, at 3:14 PM, Bobbie Day <Blday@...> wrote:

Dr K
Do you mind if I share this? I was just in a “discussion “ about this, amazing that instead of actually doing the research, and because their vet says it works people refuse to believe there is no proof of it actually working. I find it ironic that this vet is refusing Invokana but will back InsulinWise.


--
Bobbie and Desi
NRC Plus March 2020
Utah, Nov 2018

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Bobbie%20and%20Desi

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78821





coughing

LJ Friedman
 

Majestic has been coughing for the past week. It’s a dry cough nonproductive it’s not that often but it is certainly a few times a day. I know that things are changing in California with pollen etc. etc. so I’m not overly concerned.he’s never done this before. I have changed custom supplements from uckele to horse tech with some changes  and have added magnesium oxide. Might there be any affect on coughing and the supplement? I don’t think so but I thought I would ask
--
LJ Friedman  Nov 2014 Vista,   Northern  San Diego, CA

Jesse( over the rainbow) and majestic ‘s Case History 
Jesse's Photos

 


Re: Average petgolide starting dose question

Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 

I added some comparison images for reference. Her diet is dialed in and literally the same as Vinnie.
--
Nancy and Vinnie and Summer
Oakley, Ca
Joined Nov 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245855

Summer
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie/Summer 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=249104


Re: InsulinWise

Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 

Hi Leigh, just to weigh in, I had Vinnie on Insulinwise for 2 years during which ti.e he had a repeat laminitis which then I was instructed to give 2 scoops per day.  I finally stopped in June of 2020 when his insulin numbers skyrocketed.  I really don't think it helped insulin at all. I liked that it had quercetin and reseravtrol for joints but it wasn't worth the cost.  
--
Nancy and Vinnie and Summer
Oakley, Ca
Joined Nov 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245855

Summer
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie/Summer 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=249104


Re: Upsetting Info on Equi-Analytical 601 & 603 tests

Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 


Re: InsulinWise

lfitz66
 

To clarify,  I want to try Metform or Invokana and I don't believe the Insulin Wise is going to get results. I told her that I'd give it 6 weeks and retest. If we haven't gotten results then we either try one of the others or I'll find a vet that will.  Thankfully May is doing well in the mean time, and it's a money back product.
--
Leigh and May
Michigan
Joined 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Leigh%20and%20May
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=260799


Upsetting Info on Equi-Analytical 601 & 603 tests

ferne fedeli
 

A friend and I were both ready to order hay at the same time, so she said she would pull the sample and I said I would pay for the #603 test.  The test seemed extremely low in ESC, but I went ahead and balanced my minerals and ordered them and started feeding it.  She thought it would be interesting to do a #601 test on the same hay, so she pulled another sample and sent it in.  When she got the results, the ESC was about twice as much as the #603 test, so she asked them to explain why that was and they said they would retest both.


Here is the E/A reply:

 

We have re-analyzed the ESC in both samples and have determined that the original ESC values were not truly representative of these samples.  We analyzed each in triplicate to confirm the updated data which is found in the table below on a dry matter basis.

 

Sample                 27388150             27417390

%ESC                     12.0                        11.3

 

You’ll note these are different from the originally reported values of 3.2 and 7.8, respectively.  We’ll re-process these samples with the updated data and issue corrected reports.  We apologize for any convenience this will cause for you.



I believe the above is QUITE the understatement!!!  The #603 test was the one ending in 150 and the #601 was the 390 one...

If we can't trust Equi-Analytical's tests, now what?

--

Ferne Fedeli  Magic & Jack   2007

No. California
Case History

 

 


Re: InsulinWise

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

 Sure. Share away - just also provide the link to this group.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Average petgolide starting dose question

Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 

Hi,

What is an average starting dose of pergolide when a horse is first diagnosed with ppid?

I ask because we started Summer on .50 prascend in July after she was positive for ppid  35 acth during seasonal rise.  She had many problems with the veil but finally got past them around late Dec.

I started to notice her appearnace metabolically changing in January and recently decided to not be a bystander (learning from Vinnie) until we get the updated bloodwork in March 8th so I have increased her dose to 1.0 prascend. Today will be day 4 at this dose. Her neck and crest have improved but I think are probably still a little harder than I would like but u recognize there is about 3 weeks for max effect at full dose.

I am contemplating increasing her dose at least until we get bloodwork to see where things are?
--
Nancy and Vinnie and Summer
Oakley, Ca
Joined Nov 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245855

Summer
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie/Summer 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=249104


Re: How to get my IR horse eating his supplements

Lorna Cane
 

Hi Myriam,

It can be a challenge,and you'll get good suggestions here.
But is your Case History current?
I don't see that the ED is being fed, but I may have missed something.

How tall is Aragon?
Have you listed all your test results? I was looking for insulin numbers.

Keep breathing.

--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


How to get my IR horse eating his supplements

Myriam Desrosiers
 

How to get my IR horse eating it's supplements? He juste refuses to eat  the emergency diet...Do you have tricks? Thank you! 
--
MyriamD, Qc, Canada

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Myriam%20and%20Aragon

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=260540


Re: Looking for feedback on hoof progress

 

Maybe, if they load up for you on one of your devices, take a screenshot and see if that will load.  The rads all appear to be screen shots and they load fine, except the one that was annotated which takes a long time to load for me.
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Re: InsulinWise

Bobbie Day
 

Dr K
Do you mind if I share this? I was just in a “discussion “ about this, amazing that instead of actually doing the research, and because their vet says it works people refuse to believe there is no proof of it actually working. I find it ironic that this vet is refusing Invokana but will back InsulinWise.


--
Bobbie and Desi
NRC Plus March 2020
Utah, Nov 2018

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Bobbie%20and%20Desi

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78821


Re: Giving Omeprazole To Horses Getting Phenylbutazone

Sherry Morse
 

I was happy to see that study come out because finding WHEN to dose is almost impossible (and I'd like to think I'm pretty good at ferreting stuff out using Google).  For my own sanity I dosed on an reasonably empty stomach prior to grooming/riding as I figured that would give a good hour or more for it to start working before any food would be ingested.



Re: Giving Omeprazole To Horses Getting Phenylbutazone

LJ Friedman
 

Not to hijack this message but thinking if we’re learning about omeprazole this post says it’s best to give it on the fasted horse.
--


Re: InsulinWise

lfitz66
 

I shared all of this information with my vet. I printed everything here and gave it to her.  She still wasn't willing to try Metform or Invokana until we tried Insulin Wise first. I think part of the problem is that I'm in Michigan and MSU grads always refer there for advice. The MSU connection to the study makes it "golden". She said Metform doesn't work long term, which I know,  but still think it would be helpful to get her numbers down initially, and that there isn't enough research on Invokana.
--
Leigh and May
Michigan
Joined 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Leigh%20and%20May
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=260799


InsulinWise

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

I am repeating an earlier post on InsulinWise because it's important. It is being heavily advertised to veterinarians as being "research proven" but I can't help thinking most vets haven't actually read it.  There was research, but it's hardly convincing:

The study on InsulinWise was released in the May 2020 issue of JEVS; Dr. Manfredi lead author.

They used both a high and low dose group - with no difference in results.

There were 15 horses in the study, Morgans and Arabians. All were originally diagnosed by either oral sugar test or intravenous testing, not by having elevated baseline insulin.  At the time of original diagnosis 3 years before the study, only 3 had fasting insulin over 10 uIU. Before supplementation, only 3 had fasting insulin over 20 with the group average being 15. In other words, these were all very mild cases that would not be diagnosed as EMS by the conventional "reference ranges" or the commonly used blanket upper "normal" of 20 uIU (see previous posts on normal fasted insulin).

Despite being very mild, five of these 15 cases did not respond at all to the InsulinWise (33.3%).

Of the ones that did respond to a 6 week course of the supplement, only the 60 and 75 minute insulin levels (after oral glucose load) showed a statistically significant but clinically very minimal insulin drop from an average of around 60 to an average of 50 uIU at 60 minutes. There is currently debate over what the upper limit at 60 minutes should be. Some say 60 uIU and some say 45. Studies of normal horses often show peaks as low as 20 uIU.

Adiponectin levels showed a minimal increase. The adiponectin assay used was found to be invalid in another study (Menzies-Gow et al, EVJ 2019). There was no change in leptin, triglycerides, TNF-alpha, or fat deposits. There was no change in body condition score or fat deposits.

No one on this list has reported a good result and some have had the horse worsen.

Cost is around $2.00/day.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Looking for feedback on hoof progress

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Lisa,

I don't have any words of wisdom because the images appear to have uploaded, but just as blanks.  I'm guessing you can see them without a problem on the phone though?  The only thing I can think of is that it might have something to do with the size of the images - the hoof images that are not actually there are all over 600kb (except the RF Dorsal - that one says it's 325kb) while the body picture is 225kb.  Is there an option to resize the hoof pictures to that same kb amount and see what that does?




Re: Looking for feedback on hoof progress

liisaacson
 

Hi All,

I'm trying to upload his furry photos and the hoof shots will not display. The file name show up in the dialog box but the image box displays as gray with a blue question mark. The body shots do display and I took them all with the same phone camera this morning. All images are jpegs. The hoof photos are smaller than the body ones. Any idea what I might be doing wrong?

--
Lisa and Haven
Independence, MN
2015

Haven's case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Lisa%20and%20Haven 

Haven's photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=261155 


Re: What else to manage pain?

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Marsha,

I'm going to be very blunt here and ask who's paying for the Insulinwise? Is it you, the owner, or the vet?  My point being if it's not working now, what's the point of continuing to pay for it?  The only way to determine that of course, is to do another insulin test so the sooner that's done, the better.  Then you need to be prepared for next steps with this vet.  Is the vet your choice or dictated by Buzzy's owner?  If it's the owner is he/she open to changing to another vet - assuming that's an option - who might be open to trying other treatments?   At the end of the day we are the only advocates the horses have and we need to do what's best for them and if the vet won't budge it may be best to look elsewhere for one that is willing to try something new and different for them.



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