Date   

Re: Lavinia- request for markups 2nd try

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Thanks, Toni.

Yes, I'll get you some mark-ups in time for the appt.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


Re: Alternative to banamine or bute during colic when on ivonkana

LJ Friedman
 

are you clipping to keep horse comfortable?
--
LJ Friedman  Nov 2014 Vista,   Northern  San Diego, CA

Jesse( over the rainbow) and majestic ‘s Case History 
Jesse's Photos

 


Re: Requesting advice for adjusting diets and balancing according to new hay analyses in Idaho

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Hi Nancy, it might be worth having it balanced.  We generally say 3 months of hay is worth testing and balancing.  You've already tested it...so you are halfway there.  If you are planning to feed, say, 50:50 of each hay a day your balancer can take that into account and give you an averaged recommendation.  It might be fairly simple to adjust the amount of Cal Trace you are feeding, and add in a little more of what is low.  Because the calcium is so high in the hay, you may need more magnesium than they are getting.

Both hays are high in calcium, so there is a significant amount of legumes in them.  Some EMS horses do not tolerate legumes well, we don't really know why though.  If you can source 100% grass hay going forward, it could help.  The high protein is also a bit worrying.   Some of that could be from the legumes, but the 17% in "Cindy's" hay seems excessively high.  This hay especially might be high in nitrates (EA can add that test for you if you want).  It is also higher in sugar.  Soaking it will help remove some of the sugar, and nitrates if they are present. The mixed grass hay is lower in sugar so it may be fine without soaking, but if your horses are still sore then I would continue to soak it.  I have a horse eating 7% sugar+starch hay and have found that he needs it soaked, as have many other members here.  You have to see for yourself whether they can tolerate that level of sugar and starch.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album


Riosa and Prascend

hdavis
 

Hello Dr. Kellon,

I was wondering about your thoughts on Riosa and her Orascend. We have tested her ACTH in the fall and spring previously and it has never tested positive for PPID.  We had added it in last winter/spring to possibly deal with a potential prolactin issue and we have left her on it and increased dose in the fall as well.  I know it was previously mentioned last year that we could possibly go off of it as she most likely doesn’t not have PPID but I decided we should stay on it over the winter to see how things go.

I wanted to check in with you again on this and
ger your thoughts if possible. She is on 2mgs currently and before fall 1mg.  

Thanks in advance.



--
Heather
August 5, 2017, Brandon, Manitoba, Canada

Riosa 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Heather%20and%20Riosa

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=8819 


Storm

Case History


 




Re: New Presumed Laminitis episode for Dutch

Kirsten Rasmussen
 
Edited

Some EMS/PPID horses here with chewing or digestive issues have been on high beet pulp diets...this is worth exploring further.  The beet pulp can probably replace a good portion of the grass pellets, and if they are mixed together then the beet pulp would help dilute the sugar and starch in the grass pellets in each meal.  Minerals would need to be balanced accordingly though.  Dr Kellon can probably suggest a safer suitable diet if you consult with her.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album


Re: Check in for Gavi on pracend and ivonkanna and behavior

Tara Smith
 


--Dr k .as you know I have a very hard time uploading into history. But to date he is on 5.3 pergalide capsule and 300mg ivonkana nothing else.  .just low tested hay ,salted hay ,vit E ..he won't except any other suppliment in his mash right now ..the mash is a very small amount of etec carb safe which he loves..but currently picky with.He only would like it dry if i give it by hand .
Tara and Gavilon
Mass.  Nov 2017
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Tara%20and%20Gavilon
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=11449


Re: Alternative to banamine or bute during colic when on ivonkana

Tara Smith
 

Yes salted over damp free choice hay bag I presently use to tbs. To 2.5 tbs over a large volume over his shared slow feeder bag..is this the correct amount ..should I offer any free choice salt in another bucket and if so which type ?
--
Tara and Gavilon
Mass.  Nov 2017
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Tara%20and%20Gavilon
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=11449


Re: Unsure Yankee's current status after new blood tests

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Hi Jodi, 

A G:I of 4.5 or higher technically would have been considered "compensated IR", BUT the change from compensated to uncompensated is not an exact line that, once crossed, has significant implications for the horse.  It was just a statistical cutoff.  Plus the insulin assays at Cornell have changed since those proxies were determined.  So we no longer use that terminology at ECIR.  Any insulin at 20 or less in an EMS horse is excellent so keep doing what you are doing.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album


Re: New ACTH and Insulin bloodwork

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Once Firestorm has been at his 2mg pergolide dose for at least 3 weeks and you want to retest him, you could try stopping the Metformin for the test.  That's if you want to see whether getting his ACTH under control alone is enough to bring his insulin down to a safe level.

I wouldn't say Firestorm's ACTH has been controlled in the past, with the exception of 2019.  We all seem to want to keep the dose as low as possible (understandably), but it seems to be so easy for the disease catch up and overtake us and then we are being reactive, not proactive.  You had Firestorm at 2mg last June but then lowered it right at the start of the seasonal rise.  In hindsight he probably could have stayed at 2mg.  While it's not very fair to point out hindsight, it is good to learn from it.  We do know that keeping ACTH controlled is more important than the outwardly visible physical signs.  Even without visible signs of disease, there could be internal changes occurring that you can't see, such as reduced density of bones and degeneration of tendons/ligaments...and of course the elevated insulin.  Even without overt laminitis, his insulin is high enough to be affecting the strength if his laminae so if he was to tip over into acute laminitis there is a theory that it could be worse than if he had healthy well connected hoof walls to start with.

IMO I don't think the issue with pergolide is overdosing.  Underdosing seems to be more of a problem.  

-
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album


Re: New Insulin Test

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Anne,

It would be great to see current photos when you can.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Lavinia- request for markups 2nd try

Toni Clark
 

Hi,

I have a farrier appointment on Tuesday April 20 and was hoping to have the markups by then.

In the last request you asked for x-ray links and they are in the case history, also she is on a 3 weeks trim rotation and her last trim was March 30.
--
Toni and Ella 
Pacific Northwest 2021


Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Toni%20and%20Ella/
Ella's Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=262373

 

 


Re: New Insulin Test

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Hi Anne, that's great news!  Please do update your Case History with Nemo's current diet and new bloodwork when you get a chance.  Thanks!

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album


Re: Can you feed a non ECIR a ECIR diet?

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Melissa,

The first thing you need to do is get your hay analyzed - pasture too if they spend a considerable period out. Hays from your area can have serious imbalances in major minerals that none of the supplements mentioned will correct.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: New Presumed Laminitis episode for Dutch

 

Hi, Rebecca. 

Dutch’s veterinary history is complicated, so please check this idea with your consulting vets and nutritional experts. 

A good feed you may be able to incorporate without high sugar and starch is RSR Beet Pulp. It’s much safer than an untested feed like the Stable Mix. It’s a sweat equity feed— you do the work to make it safe by cleaning it up, rinsing off soil, soaking in hot water, and then rinsing again.  Many details in Files. 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/5%20Core%20Diet/Beet%20Pulp

I know vets can be wary of BP to the point of prejudice. After RSR, it’s unrecognizable as the stuff that came out of the bag. Smell and texture are appealing. I RSR batches and store it frozen, transfer to a high quality camping cooler where it remains frozen in ice for about 6 days here. Sacramento is much hotter, so you’ll have to experiment.


Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse and Diamond Case History Folder                
Cayuse Photos                Diamond Photos


Re: New Presumed Laminitis episode for Dutch

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

As already mentioned Thyro-L does not improve insulin sensitivity. There are several different opinions on how to manage IFEE, with no good information on relative success rates of the nonsurgical treatments. In particular, there is zero information on the effects of particle size although pelleted rations are a  common recommendation in the immediate postoperative period - and not just for IFEE. If you can point me to published work showing small particle size is important in IFEE I'd love to see it.

There is no getting around that most of what you are feeding is unsafe and he is showing the effects of that. The only thing I can suggest is to grind the ODTB, ? food processor.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Alternative to banamine or bute during colic when on ivonkana

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

The type and route for fluid needs to be determined by the treating vet - as does sedation, etc. Most people use electrolytes incorrectly https://wp.me/p2WBdh-I7 .  Are you giving salt as instructed?
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Kale question-

Trisha DePietro
 

Hi all. I am researching whether or not  a small amount of kale might help palatibility issues with the compounded pergolide. so, 1 cup of kale (20.6 gms) contains:
7.2 calories
0.3 g fat
10.9 Na
0.9 Carb
0.8 fiber
0.2 g sugar
0.6 g protein
in evaluating this I added the sugar and the carb grams together and divided them by the 20.6 to get a percentage of sugar and carbs... I got 0.05%.....so, if my humble math is correct a small amount of kale would be ok to feed from a carb/sugar perspective? 
I searched for other comments on Kale in both horsekeeping and main group, but found only small discussions regarding possible thyroid effects from the iodine levels. But not sure how clinically significant those discussions are. If Hope will eat the kale and I can get her pergolide into her that is the goal and I can monitor thyroid levels via bloodtesting? 
I was going to make a moist kale cookie with pureed kale and water and hand feed....that way I know she gets the whole thing...I have never ever had such a fussy horse. Its a darn good thing I love her.  :) 
--
Trisha DePietro
Aug 2018
NH
Dolly and Hope's Case Histories
Dolly's Photos 
Hope's Photos 
Primary Responder


Re: Check in for Gavi on pracend and ivonkanna and behavior

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

On Fri, Apr 16, 2021 at 09:59 PM, Tara Smith wrote:
Do u think if any doses of the meds are to high right now they could be causing any of the issues I'm noticing?
Hard to comment without an up to date history.
 
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Check in for Gavi on pracend and ivonkanna and behavior

Tara Smith
 


--can horses have the human version if this med I believe I take it! GAVI is also on the highest amounts of pracend he has ever been on and it does make him picky has in the past.When we recheck his blood will there be any indicators that he may be on to much pracend or to much ivonkana that is making him feel  crummy if levels are to low ?Also a reminder please blood panel to include with this blood work? TRIGLYCERIDES being added as well ? To high is not good from ivonkana?I also include kidney values as well . Anything else I should be covering?
Tara and Gavilon
Mass.  Nov 2017
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Tara%20and%20Gavilon
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=11449


locked Re: Mov Ease

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

This needs to move to Horsekeeping.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001

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