Date   

Urgently need help to board laminitic mare near Sacramento/Lincoln - boarding facility pressuring me to euthanize or being cruel

Diane Pingrey <dianehorsevol@...>
 

Super URGENT:  my boarding facility is pressuring me to euthanize my 30 yr old QH mare horse due to her extreme front hoof pain, but this won't give me time to attempt an ECIR recovery; I'm just starting this process.  I believe the ECIR guidance will help my horse reduce her pain and could potentially help her recover, and she deserves that opportunity.

is there a person near the Sacramento/Lincoln area who understands ECIR horses, their chance of recovery and would be willing to have me board my horse at their property while I attempt to help her recover?  I can't trailer, so they would have to come trailer her, and I'd pay them for trailering and boarding.  I work 40 hours per week so can only see her in the evenings; I'm recently also recovering from a breast mastectomy surgery on 1/27/21.  Denny is a mare in spite of her name.  She may have a hard time being able to trailer for more than 30 minutes at this point, but I might have to chance it.
 
My biggest problem right now is that my horse is in SO much pain that the facility owners and others think I'm being cruel keeping her alive as no one believes it is possible to recover from that much pain, and I'm feeling pressure from them to euthanize her.  I too worry about her super high pain level but she is not showing me that she is ready in spite of her super high pain she is tolerating.  She kicks out her hinds legs in pain.  Very painful to walk and she is currently wearing wooden clog shoes that relieve pressure off of the coffin bone, but these clogs no longer help relieve the pain.  She needs a hoof trim by a farrier who is highly specialized and I feel like I'm going to run out of time before finding one.  The facility owner today said she was standing near her shelter and her front legs were trembling uncontrollably.  He said her legs were probably also really tired and that she was in tremendous pain.  She gets 2 Equioxx per day and that amount is not helping her at this point.  They think I'm being cruel keeping her alive and even though I mentioned the ecir.org group's work and what changes could help, they are dismissing it as a possibility.
 
I have to board her, and I don't know where I can take her that would not pressure me to euthanize her, so I might not get a chance to see if she can recover.  And this pains me to no end.  
 
If anyone has any information on where I can take her to allow a possible recovery, please post and/or call me.  I would also need help trailering.

Thank you!
Diane and Denny
(916) 253-7908 leaving voicemail and I'll pickup if I'm there

Denny Case History (created, but can't get the URL in the signature line; doesn't look right)



--
Diane P in Lincoln, CA 2021

Denny Case History:  Posted but haven't been able to get the link to appear with her name in it


Dr. Kellon Re: Need Advice- Thyroid Tumor, Probable PPID

Carissa Haley
 

Hi Dr. Kellon,

I will talk with her about a TRH stim test. Is that something I should wait to do until September when it's most likely to show?
That's what doesn't make sense to me either. He isn't jumpy, no weight loss, no elevated pulse... No symptoms of hyperthyroidism that I know of. To me, all his symptoms point to PPID, and the thyroid seems like am inconvenient distraction.  

She just messaged me today and said that the second biopsy came back as inconclusive, again :( She said she wants to repeat the first test (fine needle aspiration) if there is a possibility of the lab being wrong. I don't really know what to think. Should we skip all this testing and just remove it out of an abundance of caution? It sounds like a common procedure with good success. 
--
Carissa Haley
Chugiak, Alaska, USA
2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Carissa%20Haley%20&%20Jazz
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=263165


Re: Blood Test Showed Low Magnesium

Liz7033@...
 

 I up loaded the hay analysis'. The amounts being feed are in the file name, there are two.

The vet was new to having Magnesium tested.(A new lab had  bought out old lab he had been using, that didn't test for mg) He doesn't has not have much exerience dealing with a low Magnesium test.

 Another blood test was taken on 5/4 to retest, and an insulin test was added which may be the reason why I don't have results yet.   First blood test was taken on 4/30 in the morning.  She started an antihistamine, SMZ/TMP, and bute the night before, just in case that might influnence the test, and she was still on the three drugs when retested.

The good news is that her cellulitis appears to be improving, but the low mg is still a mystery.

Thanks for reviewing.

Liz
SW Washington
January 25, 2020

Tasha photo album
Case History


Re: Vinnie Update with 37.5mg Invokana

Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 


Re: Vinnie Update with 37.5mg Invokana

Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 
Edited

Here is a little video of out short walk. Trying to keep things under 8mins in one setting. It is about all he tolerates at the moment. I think some off steps will be coming from.his ringbone. He truly is doing great and his body looks the best it has looked since he was about 16.

https://youtu.be/2ez5vsH3yyA
--
Nancy and Vinnie and Summer
Oakley, Ca
Joined Nov 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245855

Summer
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie/Summer 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=249104


Re: Shelf life of compounded pergolide from Wedgewood?

cathyjomitchell
 

Thank you!!!!!. So maybe I should get the 100 days and be done. Will still save me alot of money in the long run. I would definitely ship overnight as I often  have weather concerns as well.

--
Cathy and Mikey (Arabian)  in MN
joined 2008


Re: Iodine Supplementation

 

Hi, Sara. Is this your particular question:
It is possible to over-dose iodine, so why the use of Source?  What am I missing?
ECIR doesn't requires the use of Source. It's just one possible iodine supplement. It is possible to overdose iodine using any iodine supplement if you don't understand the needs of our horses, the units of measure, the potency of the product and toxicity levels. Source works as well as anything else.

But even if you don't know how to do the calculations, one measure of Source each day doesn't contain enough iodine to cause an overdose because it contains about a quarter of the toxic dose. In fact, I used Source at roughly a measure/day when I was forced to feed hay with nitrate levels that required extra iodine in the diet to protect the thyroid. No toxicity. No ill effects at all.
--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse and Diamond Case History Folder                
Cayuse Photos                Diamond Photos


Re: Shelf life of compounded pergolide from Wedgewood?

 

Cathy,
You're right. ECIR has always recommended getting a 30 day supply, freshly compounded, and stored in the refrigerator.

I also use Pet Health. I admit that I've been getting a 90 day supply at one time. The reason is simple: it was so hot last summer and fall that I decided I would pay for priority overnight shipping for a 3 month supply in good weather to avoid the monthly risk of my pergolide getting stuck in a shipping facility between Arizona and California or in my mailbox when it was +100℉. If my pergolide deteriorates over 90 days, ACTH testing of my horse doesn't reflect it. I do run labs frequently, so this works for me. It also requires that I manage shipping to avoid heat spells.
--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse and Diamond Case History Folder                
Cayuse Photos                Diamond Photos


Re: Blood Test Showed Low Magnesium

 

Hi, Liz.
It would be helpful for volunteers to see your hay analysis. If you have it in pdf format, you can add it to your case history folder, at this link:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Liz%20and%20Tasha.  First you need to add a new subfolder named Hay Analysis. You will use the blue button labeled   +New  to add the subfolder. Once that has been created, use the same blue button on the new folder to upload the Hay Analysis.

If you don't have the hay analysis in pdf format, you can upload a photo of it to Tasha's Photo album.

Thanks,
--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse and Diamond Case History Folder                
Cayuse Photos                Diamond Photos


Re: Shelf life of compounded pergolide from Wedgewood?

Cheryl Oickle
 

Hi not sure about your pharmacy but Island Pharmacy says the cp pergolide mesylate is good for 90 plus?days kept at room temperature in a dark place. 
I have used it up to 5 months post dispensing and no change in acth insulin glucose levels. 
Hope this may help you

--
Cheryl and Jewel
Oct 2018
Port Alberni BC Canada
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Cheryl%20and%20Jewel
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=81063


Re: Ground Flax addition to feed

Deb Walker
 

Since starting diet and supplementation based on ECIR protocols, my horse gets a little less than 1/2 cup 3 x a day. I weighed it once and it might be listed as weight in his case history. I eliminated soy products that I used to feed. It's always hard to say, but I believe it has been a good addition for him. He eats only soaked ODTBC with soaked beet pulp, and all of his dry supplements are sprinkled on top. No problems.
--
Deb and Scotty I/R, PPID
Pecatonica Illinois, May 13, 2019
Case History:
 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Deb%20and%20Scotty
Photos:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=90619


Re: Pergolide and cypro combined

 

Hi Cathy,

I work with Pet Health Pharmacy and order 60 days at a time.  I also keep my capsules on the fridge door, putting a desiccant in each bottle (I have several horses on different doses).  I don’t think where you purchase the capsules will affect their stability after they’re shipped.   Many vets are more comfortable with Wedgewood because they do a lot of small animal prescriptions as well.

If you added your location, it did not stick.  Be sure to press return and save when you’re done.  It’s also possible I misunderstood.
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Re: FAO Dr Kellon - INVOKANA advice following latest blood test results

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Sorry, I never seem to spell Dewi's name correctly!

I shared that info about Shaku so that you know how easy it is for some horses to tip the scale over to overt laminitis.  I thought Shaku was doing well, until he wasn't! 

I think your vet's advise is fine, but testing his insulin again now that he's off Metformin might help you make a decision of whether he should be back on it.  It's true that it loses effectiveness in horses with time.

As for trimming, hopefully you can find a professional that can help with Dewi's hooves.  Whoever you get, they might do better or feel more confident to have a set of new lateral rads to work from so they know where his coffin bone is in there.

I didn't have the option of calling in another trimmer.  I think that's the case for the other self-trimmers on this forum (there's quite a few!).  You just try your best.  My first trim was based on the markups Jenny Edwards gave me.  It was quite drastic.  I learned as I went after that, and am still learning.  It was very frustrating for the first year because Shaku had trouble holding his feet up and I had no one to turn to for help, but now 4 years later I am very comfortable trimming my own horse.  My advise if you are going to try is get a set of new markups (possibly rads if you can afford them), a good quality (professional) rasp, and do a LITTLE bit every single day until they look like the markups...that way it's not as overwhelming and you won't do any harm in one trim.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album


Re: Iodine Supplementation

eleison
 

Thank you for reply and suggestion.  I want to use Source since it mixes with her other food without going over-board on minerals.  I found discussion of iodine supplementation but not an answer to my particular question.  And, I did reverse my NCR & NRC.   National Cash Register is not too relevant.

 

 

 


--
Sara D in NC 2021


Shelf life of compounded pergolide from Wedgewood?

cathyjomitchell
 

 Switching from prascend to cp. I am trying to work within my new vets comfort zone, because I appreciate the fact that he is trying to work with me as well. I used to order cp from Pet Health, but vet chose to go with Wedgewood. I am fine with that and they have been very willing to answer my questions. They wanted me to  order 100 day supply of capsules at a time. They said they have tested their cp and have found it has a shelf life of 180 days.  I have asked them to do 30 days at a time for me. That is going to take a few extra days and of course will cost more , but they will do it.  I always thought this group recommends 30 day supply of cp and fridge door storage.  Can I order 100 days  or should I stick with the 30?


--
Cathy and Mikey (Arabian)  in MN
joined 2008


Blood Test Showed Low Magnesium

Liz7033@...
 


Last week, my mare got a blood test because of a case of cellulitis.  One of the test performed on the serum was Magnesium, which had never been tested before.  The result was 1.4 mg/dL, normal range was 1.7-2.8. Her calcium was 11.9 mg/dL normal 10-13.  This surprise me because from her tested hay she is getting 24g of magnesium and 30g of calcium.  In February she had strained thigh muscle, could this be related?

Any ideas what would cause the short fall?


Liz
SW Washington
January 25, 2020

Tasha photo album
Case History


Re: Dr Kellon Help

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Responded to your private mail.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Pergolide and cypro combined

cathyjomitchell
 

Thank you both.

I updated my signature. I am trying to work within my new vets comfort zone, because I appreciate the fact that he is trying to work with me as well. I used to order cp from Pet Health, but vet chose to go with Wedgewood. I am fine with that and they have been very willing to answer my questions. They wanted me to  order 100 day supply of capsules at a time. They said they have tested their cp and have found it has a shelf life of 180 days.  I have asked them to do 30 days at a time for me. That is going to take a few extra days , but they will do it.  I always thought this group recommends 30 day supply of cp and fridge door storage.  Can I order 100 days  or should I stick with the 30?

--
Cathy and Natalie (Morgan)
joined 2008


Re: Iodine Supplementation

Nancy C
 

Hi Sara

NRC found toxicity at 40 mg.  For a full-sized horse you are okay at 9 mg, but for cost savings,you could cut in half or to what is needed based on size/BW.

We've had lots of discussion about iodine toxicity which you may find interesting, in the archives.  There was a time when mega doses of iodine was recommended by some supplement sellers.

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/237966?p=,,,100,0,0,0::Created,,iodine+%2Btoxicity,100,2,0,32455268

--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2020-2021
Join us at the 2021 NO Laminitis! Conference, August 13-15, ECIR Virtual Conference Room


Iodine Supplementation

eleison
 

I noticed that Source Original , when fed accurately, provides a 9 mg. daily dose of iodine, which is quite beyond what the NCR gives as the daily requirement.  California Natural, on the other hand, provides 3 mg/day.  I've seen posts that indicate that Source is used for supplementation of iodine.  It is possible to over-dose iodine, so why the use of Source?  What am I missing?   
--
Sara D in NC 2021

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