Date   

Re: Are there any photos and x-rays that show a good case - what we should be striving for? #photo

Pat
 

Thank-you. I will take a look.
--
Pat
August 2020
Metro Vancouver BC Canada
Case: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Pat%20and%20Willow
Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=253325


Re: Are there any photos and x-rays that show a good case - what we should be striving for? #photo

Pat
 

Will look, thanks very much.
--
Pat
August 2020
Metro Vancouver BC Canada
Case: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Pat%20and%20Willow
Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=253325


Re: Are there any photos and x-rays that show a good case - what we should be striving for? #photo

Pat
 

Sorry, I meant x-rays.  I have looked a lot online and here and at Willow's. Still trying to put the puzzle together. Will be doing new xrays end of June.
--
Pat
August 2020
Metro Vancouver BC Canada
Case: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Pat%20and%20Willow
Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=253325


Re: FAO Lavinia - Dewi updated hoof photos since new farrier trim

jenny.comish@...
 

Thanks Lavinia. Dewi is doing very well and has been cantering about the arena bossing my mare about! He had perked up before this trim - in spite of his massively high heels, but he looks even better now and was not especially sore after this trim, despite the frog trimming. I did ask her to leave his frogs alone save for a tidy up but she felt they needed trimming and it’s difficult to argue when you are not confident of your own knowledge. 


Frustrating about him being unlevel, especially if I am able to notice it! Are these basic errors - as in she should know better? She has been practicing as a farrier for 5 years. I’m not going to have a massive go at her but I am trying to filter out farriers and hoof trimmers that make unacceptable errors! 


Jenny
--
Jenny Comish
England, UK
Dewi Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jenny%20Dewi
Dewi Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=257833


Re: FAO Lavinia - Dewi updated hoof photos since new farrier trim

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Jenny,

Thanks for the updated photos.

The trim has definitely improved and Dewey now has more actual foot at ground level to stand on. How does he feel about it?

I agree that there appear to be some things that aren't even or level. RF is definitely longer overall than the LF, which the CG depth is confirming is too long. LF is laterally high, with the the leg canting inward and the lateral wall flaring in compensation. Looks like there was a considerable amount of frog trimming done as well.

Trim needs to address the specific needs of each foot: RF still has excess vertical height so needs to be lowered more and have the horizontal toe length shortened; LF needs to have the lateral wall lowered and flare removed so the foot is level; frogs need to be left alone other than to remove any loose flaps.
 
--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


Re: Needing a better long-term solution for my mini with uncontrollable IR levels

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Carla,

Yes, of course.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


FAO Lavinia - Dewi updated hoof photos since new farrier trim

jenny.comish@...
 

Hi Lavinia (or anyone who is interested!). After the terrible trimming he received for 3 trims leaving his heels to grow higher and higher I had a new farrier out to start to lower them. I've added pics to my photo album dated 9th May (sorry I've been very slow to upload them) and I've added some hind hoof pics this time too - for some reason I forgot to take a left hind dorsal so that is missing. 

I've added some photos of his heels on his fronts as to me they are not level and there is quite a difference between the 2 hooves. Hi collateral groove depth is also very different between his 2 front hooves - his right fore is 2.5cm at the deepest point but the left fore is just 1.2cm. This doesn't seem right to me but very grateful for input.

Thanks for all your advice to date it has been massively helpful and supportive.

Jenny
--
Jenny Comish
England, UK
Dewi Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jenny%20Dewi
Dewi Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=257833


Re: Needing a better long-term solution for my mini with uncontrollable IR levels

Carla Anderson Peters
 

Dr. Kellon,
May I send you an email with my vet's name and email, as well?
Thank you!!
--
Carla

 

December 2013, WI

Cupcake and Gunnar's Case Histories 

Cupcake's Photos

Gunnar's Photos 

Ω



Re: Needing a better long-term solution for my mini with uncontrollable IR levels

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Amy,

Just send me an e-mail at drkellon@... with your vet's name and e-mail.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Needing a better long-term solution for my mini with uncontrollable IR levels

amyscrivanich
 

On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 08:25 AM, Eleanor Kellon, VMD wrote:
Amy,

If you are interested in Invokana I have information to send to your vet.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Thank you Dr. Kellon, any information would be much appreciated.   Please let me know how to proceed 


--
Amy Scrivanich
Charlotte, NC
Nov 2004 (my original PPID horse passed in 2015)
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Amy%20and%20Mater%20the%20mini

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=264439

 


Re: Hay belly question

 

Thanks for the replies Sherry & Kirsten. He gets ridden about 4-5 times per week. We definitely aren’t working as hard as we used to (not getting ready for shows any more) so I’m thinking you are both right. Thanks!!


--
Beth & Flame dx 2013 & Diana dx 2020

NV Oct 2013

Flame Case History ( https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Beth%20and%20Flame )

Flame Pictures ( https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=822 )

Diana Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Beth%20and%20Diana ( https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Beth%20and%20Diana )


Re: Recent Blood work for Flyte

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Lecia,

Just letting you know I didn't get your message so better stick to e-mail, drkellon "at" gmail.com.

--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Jiji's Blood Test Results (Received finalized report today!)

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Olivia,

In light of the Karo, your results are all normal.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Are there any photos and x-rays that show a good case - what we should be striving for? #photo

Snowdenfarm
 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/494840744883083
As Seen On The Sound Hoof is a FB page for photos of sound hooves.
--
CJ Snowden
SE Pennsylvania
2010


Re: Jiji's Blood Test Results (Received finalized report today!)

 

Jiji was not fasted. The vet administered Karo Light corn syrup an hour before blood was taken, though. At the time I was unaware that giving Karo is not recommended by the group.
I will try to get a better body shot today.
Thank you!
--
-Olivia
May 2021, Bemidji, Minnesota
Jiji's Case History
Photo Album


Re: Jiji's Blood Test Results (Received finalized report today!)

Trisha DePietro
 

Hi Olivia. Yes- according to the calculator your horse falls in range for Insulin Resistance. If you go back to your welcome letter, you will find a whole section on Insulin Resistance and how to help your horse. You can have IR without PPID. And you can have PPID without IR. Insulin Resistance is a metabolic type. I looked at Jiji's body shots and its hard to see because the body is at an angle. If you could retake them where you are standing spot on center to the horses body that would be great.  Your hoof photos are really  hard to see because of the ruler and they are dark shots...those need to be in full sunlight with out a shadow if possible. So, feeding her low sugar and starch hay less than 10% is key to keeping her well controlled...and exercise is important too- but only if she is comfortable on her feet. 
--
Trisha DePietro
Aug 2018
NH
Dolly and Hope's Case Histories
Dolly's Photos 
Hope's Photos 
Primary Responder


Re: LAVINIA/ MARKUPS for tiko/ NOW NEED COMPUTER HELP PLEASE

Lynn
 

Hi Daisy- way to go! You should be proud of yourself!!!!
--
Lynn
Beavercreek, Ohio
March 2018
Relevante Case History
Relevante Photo Album

Ω


Re: Jiji's Blood Test Results (Received finalized report today!)

Trisha DePietro
 

Hi Olivia. Was Jiji fasting or non fasting for her insulin and glucose test? 
--
Trisha DePietro
Aug 2018
NH
Dolly and Hope's Case Histories
Dolly's Photos 
Hope's Photos 
Primary Responder


Re: Cabergoline vs Prascend

Trisha DePietro
 

Hi Julie. Welcome to the group. I have attached our welcome letter for you to review - lots of helpful information about the management of IR and PPID. Lots of information too in our files about cabergoline and Prascend, etc. Just one little housekeeping note- if you wouldn't mind adding the year to your signature...that would be very helpful. Get ready for tons of information coming your way :) 

Welcome to the group! 

The ECIR Group provides the best, most up to date information on Cushing's (PPID) and Equine Metabolic Syndrome (EMS)/Insulin Resistance (IR). Please explore our website where you'll find tons of great information that will help you to quickly understand the main things you need to know to start helping your horse. Also open any of the links below (in blue font) for more information/instructions that will save you time.

Have you started your Case History? If you haven't done so yet, please join our case history sub-group. We appreciate you following the uploading instructions so your folder is properly set up with the documents inside. Go to this CH message with info on how to use various devices and forms. If you have any trouble, just post a message to let us know where you are stuck.

Orienting information, such as how the different ECIR sections relate to each other, message etiquettewhat goes where and many how-to pages are in the Wiki. There is also an FAQs on our website that will help answer the most common and important questions new members have. 

Below is a general summary of our DDT/E philosophy which is short for Diagnosis, Diet, Trim and Exercise.

 

DIAGNOSIS: There are two conditions dealt with here: Cushings (PPID) and Equine Metabolic Syndrome (EMS)/Insulin Resistance (IR). These are two separate issues that share some overlapping symptoms. An equine may be either PPID or EMS/IR, neither or both. While increasing age is the greatest risk factor for developing PPID, IR can appear at any age and may have a genetic component. Blood work is used for diagnosis as well as monitoring the level of control of each.

PPID is diagnosed using the Endogenous ACTH test, while EMS/IR is diagnosed by testing non-fasting insulin and glucose.

The fat-derived hormone leptin is also usually abnormally elevated in insulin resistance but because there are many other things which can lower or increase leptin ECIR is not recommending routine testing for this hormone. Leptin is the hormone that says "stop eating".

In Europe, adiponectin is tested instead of leptin. Adiponectin helps regulate glucose and fat burning, and maintain insulin sensitivity. Low levels are associated with EMS. It has come to be preferred over leptin because it is not influenced by things like weight or exercise, and also because it was the only factor other than insulin levels that predicted laminitis risk

*Before calling your vet to draw blood for tests, we suggest saving time and wasted money by reading these details and then sharing them with your vet so that everyone is on the same page regarding correct testing and protocols.

*Please remember to request copies of the results of all the tests done rather than just relying on verbal information. Your vet should be able to email these to you. If you have previous test results, please include those as well. All should go in your CH, but if you are having any trouble with the CH, just post in the messages for now. 

Treatment: EMS is a metabolic type - not a disease - that is managed with a low sugar+starch diet and exercise (as able). The super-efficient easy keeper type breeds such as minis, ponies, Morgans, Arabs, Rockies are some of the classic examples. PPID is a progressive disease that is treated with the medication pergolide. Some, but not all, individuals may experience a temporary loss of appetite, lethargy and/or depression when first starting the medication. To avoid this "pergolide veil" (scroll down for side effects), we recommend weaning onto the drug slowly and the use of the product APF. The best long term results are seen when the ACTH is maintained in the middle of the normal range at all times, including during the annual seasonal rise. To accomplish this, the amount of medication may need to increase over time. Neither condition is ever "cured", only properly controlled for the remainder of the equine's life. If your partner is both PPID and IR then both medication and diet management will be needed. 

DIET: Almost all commercial feeds are not suitable - no matter what it says on the bag. Please see the International Safe Feeds List for the safest suggestions.

No hay is "safe" until proven so by chemical analysis. The diet that works for IR is:

  • low carb (less than 10% sugar+starch)
  • low fat (4% or less) 
  • mineral balanced  

We use grass hay, tested to be under 10% ESC + starch, with minerals added to balance the excesses and deficiencies in the hay, plus salt, and to replace the fragile ingredients that are lost when grass is cured into hay, we add ground flax seed and Vitamin E. This diet is crucial for an EMS/IR horse, but also supports the delicate immune system of a PPID horse. 

*Until you can get your hay tested and balanced we recommend that you soak your hay and use the emergency diet (scroll down for it).  The emergency diet is not intended for long term use, but addresses some of the most common major deficiencies. Testing your hay and getting the minerals balanced to its excesses and deficiencies is the best way to feed any equine. If you absolutely cannot test your hay and balance the minerals to it, or would like to use a "stop gap" product until you get your hay balanced, here's a list of "acceptable" ration balancers

There is a lot of helpful information in the start here folder so it is important you read all the documents found there. The emergency diet involves soaking your untested hay for an hour in cold water or 30 minutes in hot water. This removes up to 30% of the sugar content, but no starch. Starch is worse than sugar since it converts 100% to glucose while sugar only converts 50%, so starch causes a bigger insulin spike. Make sure you dump the soaking water where the equine(s) can't get to it. 

What you don't feed on the EMS/IR diet is every bit as, if not more important than, what you do feed! No grass. No grain. No sugary treats, including apples and carrots. No brown/red salt blocks which contain iron (and sometimes molasses) which interferes with mineral balancing, so white salt blocks only. 

No products containing molasses. No bagged feeds with a combined sugar and starch of over 10% or starch over about 4%, or fat over about 4%. Unfortunately, even bagged feeds that say they are designed for IR and/or PPID equines are usually too high in sugar, starch and/or fat. It’s really important to know the actual analysis and not be fooled by a name that says it is suitable for EMS/IR individuals.

We do not recommend feeding alfalfa hay to EMS/IR equines as it makes many of them laminitic. Although it tends to be low in sugar, many times the starch is higher and does not soak out. Additionally, protein and calcium are quite high, which can contribute to sore footedness and make mineral balancing very difficult.

TRIM: A proper trim is toes backed and heels lowered so that the hoof capsule closely hugs and supports the internal structures of the foot. Though important for all equines, it's essential for IR and/or PPID equines to have a proper trim in place since they are at increased risk for laminitis. After any potential triggers are removed from the diet, and in PPID individuals, the ACTH is under control, the realigning trim is often the missing link in getting a laminitic equine comfortable. In general, laminitic hooves require more frequent trim adjustments to maintain the proper alignment so we recommend the use of padded boots rather than fixed appliances (i.e. shoes, clogs), at least during the initial phases of treatment.

Sometimes subclinical laminitis can be misdiagnosed as arthritis, navicular, or a host of other problems as the animal attempts to compensate for sore feet. 

You are encouraged to make an album and post hoof pictures and any radiographs you might have so we can to look to see if you have an optimal trim in place. Read this section of the wiki for how to get a hoof evaluation, what photos are needed, and how to get the best hoof shots and radiographs.

EXERCISEThe best IR buster there is, but only if the equine is comfortable and non-laminitic. An individual that has had laminitis needs 6-9 months of correct realigning trims before any serious exercise can begin. Once the equine is moving around comfortably at liberty, hand walking can begin in long straight lines with no tight turns. Do not force a laminitic individual to move, or allow its other companions to do so. It will begin to move once the pain begins to subside. Resting its fragile feet is needed for healing to take place so if the animal wants to lay down, do not encourage it to get up. Place feed and water where it can be reached easily without having to move any more than necessary. Be extremely careful about movement while using NSAIDs (bute, banamine, previcox, etc.) as it masks pain and encourages more movement than these fragile feet are actually able to withstand. Additionally, NSAIDs (and icing) do not work on metabolic laminitis and long term NSAID use interferes with healing. Therefore, we recommend tapering off NSAIDs after the first week or so of use. If after a week's time your equine's comfort level has not increased, then the cause of the laminitis has not been removed and keeping up the NSAIDs isn't the answer - you need to address the underlying cause.

 

There is lots more information in our files and archived messages and also on our website. It is a lot of information, so take some time to go over it and feel free to ask any questions. If you are feeling overwhelmed, don't worry, you will catch on, and we are always here to help you! Once you have your case history uploaded, we can help you help your equine partner even better.

For members outside North America, there are country specific folders in the files and many international lists in the wiki to help you find local resources.

If you have any technical difficulties, please let us know so we can help you. 

--
Trisha DePietro
Aug 2018
NH
Dolly and Hope's Case Histories
Dolly's Photos 
Hope's Photos 
Primary Responder


Re: Recent Blood work for Flyte

Lecia Martin
 

Dr. Kellon:   

Thanks for talking me down off the ledge.   I am very worried about both his liver and a possible laminitic attack.   You are correct re: dates: again was completely distracted by the numbers.  I did do triglycerides in March2021  value was 1.44 mmol/l.
I sent  you a message yesterday,  I will keep contact my vet and she or I will be in touch with you.  I do want to keep him as healthy as I can, whatever it takes.

Thankful as always,

Lecia

--
Lecia Flyte and Flame
Alberta, Canada

7701 - 7720 of 269319