Re: Cabergoline


Erica, many of us here have horses that are on much larger doses of pergolide and manage symptoms well. Tipperary is my 25 year old stallion and is currently on 8 mgs of compounded pergolide in oil from Pet Health Pharmacy in AZ and an additional 1 mg tab of Prascend dissolved in water and syringed in. He will have a blood draw next week for a new ACTH and Insulin review and if he needs more pergolide, a new Rx.  There have been horses on 30-40 mgs of pergolide here who lived into their thirties( I believe one member had a pony in their 40s) . The pharmacies recommended here are accredited veterinary compounding pharmacies with experience in dispensing pergolide for horses. Wedgewood veterinary pharmacy, Pet Health, and in Canada, Island Pharmacy. I would strongly urge you to provide your vet with their links. Pet Health pharmacists will also speak personally to her regarding any concerns she has. I would certainly try increased doses of oral meds at this stage as Cabergoline is normally used when horses become refractory to the oral meds, of which there is no way to know that with your horse since he is getting a beginning dose of prascend currently.
Dawn Wagstaff and Tipperary   

Saline, MI  2003

Tipperary Case History

Juniper Case history: .


Erica Reimers

My vet has now suggested using cabergoline for my horse as 2.5 MG of prascend is not managing the PPID. Current levels are Acth: 159 and Insulin: 200

I'm at a loss as per my vet, his diet is great and he was upped from 1.5 MG of prascend to 2mg over the fall, and then up to 2.5 MG since March. He had a laminitic attack last November and is still recovering. At the age of 25 I know his body can't go through another attack and I'm at my wits end trying to manage the cushings and his overall health and need some help with PPID medication. 
My vet wants to charge $375 for the 5ml bottle of cabergoline and start him off at 1ml every other week. Where are others purchasing this from and how much is it? I found it at Bet pharmacy for $250 but can't seem to enter a California address. I've placed a call into them to see if they can ship to CA. If not I definitely can't afford it through my vet as the $375 is more than what I pay for the prascend. 
She wasn't too confident about compounded pergolide but I feel that may be the best option to go since the 2.5 MG of prascend is not working. Almost seems like he would need to go up to 3.5 or 4mg of prascend daily. 
Erica H CA 2021

Re: Bloodwork

Sherry Morse

Hi Cheryl,

4 hours after the last meal of concentrates. Having hay in front of them until blood is drawn is fine. 

Re: Lavinia--Cadet is still footsore, not sure why

Eleanor Kellon, VMD


It's possible there is pain in the back of the feet from the long term underrun heels. His frogs are still contracted.
Eleanor in PA 
EC Owner 2001


Cheryl Oickle

Please I need a reminder. When testing for insulin, how long after a feed is the usual time.  It is impossible to keep food in front of Jewel all the time as she has no shut off valve at all.
She is feed in the a.m. by 0700H
Cheryl and Jewel
Oct 2018
Port Alberni BC Canada

Re: Lavinia--Cadet is still footsore, not sure why


Sorry, Dr. Kellon.  I forgot to mention that Cadet's last hoof radiographs were taken in November of 2020.  Are you thinking he is lame from a condition other than laminitis?  I'm hoping that Lavinia will comment on his trim.  Thank you again for any input.
October 2018
Oakland County, Michigan, USA
Cadet Case History:
Ruger Case History:

Cadet Photo Album:

Re: Frustrated with vet on follow-up exam


Thank you all very much. I’m talking to my local vet about doing the bloodwork. 
Lora Bannan in Eastern Oregon
Vera - 2005 TWH mare
Joined 4/2021
Case History Vera
Photos Vera 

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Accuracy of Information

We take the importance of accurate information very seriously. The information in our posts and case histories is of tremendous value to all our members and is also used for formal studies. It is extremely important that it be factual. To protect the integrity and veracity of the group's data, a member may be asked at times to produce documentation, such as a copy of a report. These requests will be rare. Most of you will never receive one. 


Solicitation is Against the ECIR Group's Policy:

Whether directly selling a product or service or not, if you are contacted privately by someone, be suspicious. These communications frequently target new members or those in a crisis.  They almost universally push a position, product or service that the sender knows will not be upheld under close examination.


We welcome questions, suggestions and individual experiences from every member, but the bottom line is the welfare of the horse. ECIR Group approval is always based on provable facts and scientific methods, not opinions and belief.


Anyone who tries to bypass being challenged to support their position with properly assembled facts by sending unsolicited private e-mails rather than posting in the messages is, in our opinion, risking the welfare of horses and will be banned.


If you receive an unsolicited e-mail either ask the group about it, or forward the mail to 

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Re: Frustrated with vet on follow-up exam

Starshine Ranch

Hi Lora,
Just a thought, sometimes a young, fresh out of school vet can be educated... we had to do that with a couple of our vets and it ended up working out great.  Just don't let him/her do anything you're not comfortable with but he/she might be easier to convince of the ECIR ways than a stodgy older vet... lol!.
Hoping for the best for you and happy Vera's symptoms seem to have improved.
Linda in CA  2020  Midnight and Ostara

Re: Updated Photos of Callisto's Feet for Lavinia, or any other interested parties , what do you think? #photo


I used Cavallos (both Simples, and Treks) as therapy boots, with EVA matting cut to size for pads inside.

I’d change them out every 24 hours, and thoroughly dust the feet with traditional talc as a dessicant to prevent sweaty feet. 


Mar 2017, Sunderland, UK

Tartine Case History:

Tartine Photos:

Re: Mare on restricted diet started eating manure

Barbara Rosensteel


I don't know the answer to that.  Is there such a thing as a deficiency in digestive enzymes?  What would we do about it if there is?  
Barbara Rosensteel

Sept 2007, Cookeville TN

Re: Updated Photos of Callisto's Feet for Lavinia, or any other interested parties , what do you think? #photo

Lorna Cane

IV bags ,from the vet, work well.
Very strong.


Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
Check out FAQ :

Re: Mare on restricted diet started eating manure

Sherry Morse

Hi Barbara,

In light of this statement: I can't do a case history on her as she is not my horse, and the owner will not want to do one. 

I would refer you to our Terms of Use - particularly Section 4.d:

You must be the owner, or a caregiver or representative, with permission to present the equine's health history. 

That doesn't seem to be the case here.









Re: Updated Photos of Callisto's Feet for Lavinia, or any other interested parties , what do you think? #photo

Kirsten Rasmussen

Hi Lara, 

I have used the free plastic bags that come from the bulk section of the grocery store but they always leaked. 

My preferred soaker is an EasySoak Boot, a rubber soaking boot:
But I only have 1 of those and cannot seem to get another one in Canada at a reasonable price.  So I also have a waterproof nylon soaking boot that is ok:

I haven't had to soak in a while but if I was doing it regularly again I'd use 2 Easysoaker-boot boots at once.

Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album

Re: Footing for wet dirt lot with vegetation

Kirsten Rasmussen

Hi Tara, there are lots of posts on this in the Horse-keeping messages. 

Can you post this question there please?


Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album

Re: repeat insulin and glucose question

Kirsten Rasmussen

Hi Trisha,

Her insulin is still nicely controlled at around 20 uIU/ml, and even if the calculator indicates "Uncompensated", it's not nearly the same as an 'uncompensated' insulin of 40 or 60 or more.  This is why Dr Kellon had those terms removed from the Calculator, because focusing on the word "uncompensated" takes away from just how low Dolly's insulin is.  There is a bit of room to lower it further but I don't think you need to, especially if it means having to soak hay.  If you are looking for the cause of her stiff gait and turns, I don't think it's laminitis.

As for your question, insulin responds very quickly to diet changes, but I usually allow for 1 week of whatever change I've made to see the overall effect on insulin.  I did read here that insulin can continue to respond over a longer period (ie, after several weeks it could drop a bit further, so there's a justification for waiting longer) but the main effect is seen right away, usually within a few meals.  In a laminitis flare-up, it can take up to a week for diet changes to have an effect on pain (although I see a reduction in pain within 24-48 hours of starting to soak hay, but it takes a few more days to see big improvements), so I think waiting 1 week after any management change before testing it's effect on insulin is reasonable.

Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album

Re: Updated Photos of Callisto's Feet for Lavinia, or any other interested parties , what do you think? #photo

Frances C.

Thanks for the great info. I may add re pads - making my own, leather from a busted up old saddle and cork, sheets of it from a hobby store, easy to cut to shape, glue pads together for desired height. both somewhat breathable and non-slip if leather is turned rough side to hoof.
- Frances C.
December 2017, Washington & California
Case history:
Phoenix's Photo Album:

Re: Updated Photos of Callisto's Feet for Lavinia, or any other interested parties , what do you think? #photo


Hi Kristen, I actually just started soaking, because their feet were so incredibly wet all winter and my experience has been the odd time that I have soaked that they get really footy..

What do you use to  soak? I was soaking my other horse with overpriced plastic bags($40) yesterday and he spooked and they both punctured.
Lara W. in Victoria, BC 2021
Callisto Case History
Photo Album

Re: Diet - Is it okay to start the diet changes before hay analysis

Jess R

Thank you Sherry, I will work on the case history. He's refusing to eat grains anyway right now so I'll review the emergency diet and see what I need to get him. 
Jess in New Jersey 2020

Re: Hay test question please

Trisha DePietro

Hi Tara. I love the smell of new hay too!  The sugar and starch numbers combined should be less than 10%. We don't advise using the WSC. Here is a link from our files to help explain why we don't use that number... --
Trisha DePietro
Aug 2018
Dolly and Hope's Case Histories
Dolly's Photos 
Hope's Photos 
Primary Responder

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