Date   

Re: CA Trace Plus pellets

Maxine McArthur
 


Re: Cabergoline

Erica Reimers
 

Also, I'm confused where 75mg of pergolide is coming from. I thought the conversion from prascend to pergolide capsules is 1.305=1. So if I switched him from 2.5 MG of prascend, that would equal 3.26 MG of pergolide. With the elevated Acth it seems he would need 3.5 MG of prascend daily or 4.57mg of compounded pergolide capsules. 


On Wed, Jun 2, 2021, 1:07 PM Erica Reimers via groups.io <Ereimers90=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
I'm currently spending $170 per month for the prascend at 2.5mg daily and need a way to lower the cost as the 2.5mg is not managing the cushings.  I'm concerned with his elevated acth and Insulin that he may have another laminitic attack and I just can't do that again. 

On Wed, Jun 2, 2021, 12:59 PM Sherry Morse via groups.io <sherry_morse=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi Erica,

We don't usually recommend cabergoline until horses are not responding to oral pergolide or you've hit a tipping point in pricing (which is usually at a MUCH higher dose than 2.5mg/day.)  As far as pricing you're currently at 75mg of pergolide at an average of $2.12/mg which is $159 per month.  Your vet is now proposing to charge you $75 per dose of cabergoline or $300 a month IF a 1ml dose every 7 days works.  Even at $250 a 5ml vial that's still $50/dose or $200 a month IF your vet is willing to let you purchase from some place else.

Based on that math I'd choose increasing Prascend but to get the most 'bang for your buck' compounded pergolide is the way to go.  That may involve a serious discussion with your vet or looking for another vet who is more willing to work with you. 

Thanks,
Sherry and Scutch (and Scarlet over the bridge)
EC Primary Response 
PA 2014
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sherry%20and%20Scutch_Scarlet 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78891



--
Erica H CA 2021


--
Erica H CA 2021


Re: Cabergoline

Erica Reimers
 

I'm currently spending $170 per month for the prascend at 2.5mg daily and need a way to lower the cost as the 2.5mg is not managing the cushings.  I'm concerned with his elevated acth and Insulin that he may have another laminitic attack and I just can't do that again. 


On Wed, Jun 2, 2021, 12:59 PM Sherry Morse via groups.io <sherry_morse=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi Erica,

We don't usually recommend cabergoline until horses are not responding to oral pergolide or you've hit a tipping point in pricing (which is usually at a MUCH higher dose than 2.5mg/day.)  As far as pricing you're currently at 75mg of pergolide at an average of $2.12/mg which is $159 per month.  Your vet is now proposing to charge you $75 per dose of cabergoline or $300 a month IF a 1ml dose every 7 days works.  Even at $250 a 5ml vial that's still $50/dose or $200 a month IF your vet is willing to let you purchase from some place else.

Based on that math I'd choose increasing Prascend but to get the most 'bang for your buck' compounded pergolide is the way to go.  That may involve a serious discussion with your vet or looking for another vet who is more willing to work with you. 

Thanks,
Sherry and Scutch (and Scarlet over the bridge)
EC Primary Response 
PA 2014
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sherry%20and%20Scutch_Scarlet 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78891



--
Erica H CA 2021


Re: Cabergoline

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Erica,

We don't usually recommend cabergoline until horses are not responding to oral pergolide or you've hit a tipping point in pricing (which is usually at a MUCH higher dose than 2.5mg/day.)  As far as pricing you're currently at 75mg of pergolide at an average of $2.12/mg which is $159 per month.  Your vet is now proposing to charge you $75 per dose of cabergoline or $300 a month IF a 1ml dose every 7 days works.  Even at $250 a 5ml vial that's still $50/dose or $200 a month IF your vet is willing to let you purchase from some place else.

Based on that math I'd choose increasing Prascend but to get the most 'bang for your buck' compounded pergolide is the way to go.  That may involve a serious discussion with your vet or looking for another vet who is more willing to work with you. 




Re: Cabergoline

celestinefarm
 

Erica, many of us here have horses that are on much larger doses of pergolide and manage symptoms well. Tipperary is my 25 year old stallion and is currently on 8 mgs of compounded pergolide in oil from Pet Health Pharmacy in AZ and an additional 1 mg tab of Prascend dissolved in water and syringed in. He will have a blood draw next week for a new ACTH and Insulin review and if he needs more pergolide, a new Rx.  There have been horses on 30-40 mgs of pergolide here who lived into their thirties( I believe one member had a pony in their 40s) . The pharmacies recommended here are accredited veterinary compounding pharmacies with experience in dispensing pergolide for horses. Wedgewood veterinary pharmacy, Pet Health, and in Canada, Island Pharmacy. I would strongly urge you to provide your vet with their links. Pet Health pharmacists will also speak personally to her regarding any concerns she has. I would certainly try increased doses of oral meds at this stage as Cabergoline is normally used when horses become refractory to the oral meds, of which there is no way to know that with your horse since he is getting a beginning dose of prascend currently.
--
Dawn Wagstaff and Tipperary   

Saline, MI  2003

Tipperary Case History

Juniper Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Dawn%20and%20Juniper/Case%20history%20Juniper.pdf .


Cabergoline

Erica Reimers
 

My vet has now suggested using cabergoline for my horse as 2.5 MG of prascend is not managing the PPID. Current levels are Acth: 159 and Insulin: 200

I'm at a loss as per my vet, his diet is great and he was upped from 1.5 MG of prascend to 2mg over the fall, and then up to 2.5 MG since March. He had a laminitic attack last November and is still recovering. At the age of 25 I know his body can't go through another attack and I'm at my wits end trying to manage the cushings and his overall health and need some help with PPID medication. 
My vet wants to charge $375 for the 5ml bottle of cabergoline and start him off at 1ml every other week. Where are others purchasing this from and how much is it? I found it at Bet pharmacy for $250 but can't seem to enter a California address. I've placed a call into them to see if they can ship to CA. If not I definitely can't afford it through my vet as the $375 is more than what I pay for the prascend. 
She wasn't too confident about compounded pergolide but I feel that may be the best option to go since the 2.5 MG of prascend is not working. Almost seems like he would need to go up to 3.5 or 4mg of prascend daily. 
--
Erica H CA 2021


Re: Bloodwork

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Cheryl,

4 hours after the last meal of concentrates. Having hay in front of them until blood is drawn is fine. 



Re: Lavinia--Cadet is still footsore, not sure why

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Aunna,

It's possible there is pain in the back of the feet from the long term underrun heels. His frogs are still contracted.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Bloodwork

Cheryl Oickle
 

Please I need a reminder. When testing for insulin, how long after a feed is the usual time.  It is impossible to keep food in front of Jewel all the time as she has no shut off valve at all.
She is feed in the a.m. by 0700H
Thanks 
--
Cheryl and Jewel
Oct 2018
Port Alberni BC Canada
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Cheryl%20and%20Jewel
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=81063


Re: Lavinia--Cadet is still footsore, not sure why

riggslippert@...
 

Sorry, Dr. Kellon.  I forgot to mention that Cadet's last hoof radiographs were taken in November of 2020.  Are you thinking he is lame from a condition other than laminitis?  I'm hoping that Lavinia will comment on his trim.  Thank you again for any input.
--
Aunna
October 2018
Oakland County, Michigan, USA
Cadet Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Aunna%20and%20Cadet
Ruger Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Aunna%20and%20Ruger

Cadet Photo Album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=84102




Re: Frustrated with vet on follow-up exam

ibstitchin@...
 

Thank you all very much. I’m talking to my local vet about doing the bloodwork. 
--
Lora Bannan in Eastern Oregon
Vera - 2005 TWH mare
Joined 4/2021
Case History Vera https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Lora%20and%20Vera
Photos Vera https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=263692 


Happening Now: ECIR Group Policy - 06/02/2021 #cal-notice

main@ECIR.groups.io Calendar <noreply@...>
 

ECIR Group Policy

When:
06/02/2021

View Event

Description:

Accuracy of Information

We take the importance of accurate information very seriously. The information in our posts and case histories is of tremendous value to all our members and is also used for formal studies. It is extremely important that it be factual. To protect the integrity and veracity of the group's data, a member may be asked at times to produce documentation, such as a copy of a report. These requests will be rare. Most of you will never receive one. 

 

Solicitation is Against the ECIR Group's Policy:

Whether directly selling a product or service or not, if you are contacted privately by someone, be suspicious. These communications frequently target new members or those in a crisis.  They almost universally push a position, product or service that the sender knows will not be upheld under close examination.

 

We welcome questions, suggestions and individual experiences from every member, but the bottom line is the welfare of the horse. ECIR Group approval is always based on provable facts and scientific methods, not opinions and belief.

 

Anyone who tries to bypass being challenged to support their position with properly assembled facts by sending unsolicited private e-mails rather than posting in the messages is, in our opinion, risking the welfare of horses and will be banned.

 

If you receive an unsolicited e-mail either ask the group about it, or forward the mail to main+owner@ECIR.groups.io 

Thank you for your cooperation.

 

The Owners and Support Team of the ECIR Group

 


Re: Frustrated with vet on follow-up exam

Starshine Ranch
 

Hi Lora,
Just a thought, sometimes a young, fresh out of school vet can be educated... we had to do that with a couple of our vets and it ended up working out great.  Just don't let him/her do anything you're not comfortable with but he/she might be easier to convince of the ECIR ways than a stodgy older vet... lol!.
Hoping for the best for you and happy Vera's symptoms seem to have improved.
Linda
--
Linda in CA  2020  Midnight and Ostara
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Linda%20Midnight%20OStara


Re: Updated Photos of Callisto's Feet for Lavinia, or any other interested parties , what do you think? #photo

Casey76
 

I used Cavallos (both Simples, and Treks) as therapy boots, with EVA matting cut to size for pads inside.

I’d change them out every 24 hours, and thoroughly dust the feet with traditional talc as a dessicant to prevent sweaty feet. 
--
Katrina

 

Mar 2017, Sunderland, UK

Tartine Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Katrina%20and%20Tartine

Tartine Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=4725


Re: Mare on restricted diet started eating manure

Barbara Rosensteel
 

Diane,

I don't know the answer to that.  Is there such a thing as a deficiency in digestive enzymes?  What would we do about it if there is?  
--
Barbara Rosensteel

Sept 2007, Cookeville TN


Re: Updated Photos of Callisto's Feet for Lavinia, or any other interested parties , what do you think? #photo

Lorna Cane
 

IV bags ,from the vet, work well.
Very strong.

--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


Re: Mare on restricted diet started eating manure

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Barbara,

In light of this statement: I can't do a case history on her as she is not my horse, and the owner will not want to do one. 

I would refer you to our Terms of Use - particularly Section 4.d: https://www.ecirhorse.org/terms-of-use.php

You must be the owner, or a caregiver or representative, with permission to present the equine's health history. 

That doesn't seem to be the case here.



 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Re: Updated Photos of Callisto's Feet for Lavinia, or any other interested parties , what do you think? #photo

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Hi Lara, 

I have used the free plastic bags that come from the bulk section of the grocery store but they always leaked. 

My preferred soaker is an EasySoak Boot, a rubber soaking boot:  
https://shop.keddies.com/easysoaker-boot/?gclid=CjwKCAjwtdeFBhBAEiwAKOIy5981bu0vN1xe_M6PLwgoZITEnAsNyjKp-lUTrz5kbvoU1OCiXttMFRoCcsMQAvD_BwE
But I only have 1 of those and cannot seem to get another one in Canada at a reasonable price.  So I also have a waterproof nylon soaking boot that is ok:
https://marystack.com/hoof-wraps-soaker/?sku=137642-001&gclid=CjwKCAjwtdeFBhBAEiwAKOIy58rtJ6jKY0lfplJ3dWx4d9gWJfaXlZBX7R1Dm-1BjRDbMQPQwLNSFxoCPn8QAvD_BwE

I haven't had to soak in a while but if I was doing it regularly again I'd use 2 Easysoaker-boot boots at once.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album


Re: Footing for wet dirt lot with vegetation

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Hi Tara, there are lots of posts on this in the Horse-keeping messages. 

Can you post this question there please?

TIA!

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album


Re: repeat insulin and glucose question

Kirsten Rasmussen
 
Edited

Hi Trisha,

Her insulin is still nicely controlled at around 20 uIU/ml, and even if the calculator indicates "Uncompensated", it's not nearly the same as an 'uncompensated' insulin of 40 or 60 or more.  This is why Dr Kellon had those terms removed from the Calculator, because focusing on the word "uncompensated" takes away from just how low Dolly's insulin is.  There is a bit of room to lower it further but I don't think you need to, especially if it means having to soak hay.  If you are looking for the cause of her stiff gait and turns, I don't think it's laminitis.

As for your question, insulin responds very quickly to diet changes, but I usually allow for 1 week of whatever change I've made to see the overall effect on insulin.  I did read here that insulin can continue to respond over a longer period (ie, after several weeks it could drop a bit further, so there's a justification for waiting longer) but the main effect is seen right away, usually within a few meals.  In a laminitis flare-up, it can take up to a week for diet changes to have an effect on pain (although I see a reduction in pain within 24-48 hours of starting to soak hay, but it takes a few more days to see big improvements), so I think waiting 1 week after any management change before testing it's effect on insulin is reasonable.


--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album

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