Date   

New hay sample high Iron

Tara Smith
 


HI we just got back some of out hay tests from fields we re limed with high mag.as recommended and our iron from this field just came back with a 605 iron level ...I'm gonna run out of my present hay and have this batch and another to work with run now ..both are just hovering around 10 starch and sugar.I won't have any hay if can't access some of this stuff..options please..soak ,shake, get rid of it.  Uuugh I can't afford to keep outsourcing for hay when my boyfriend works do hard to make it ..last year I spent a fortune on hay its very stressful !TIA Tara
Tara and Gavilon
Mass.  Nov 2017
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Tara%20and%20Gavilon
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=11449


Re: Confused about feeding iodized salt

Starshine Ranch
 

Thank you again, Dr K... my horses will be happy to not get added salt... they prefer to use their salt block and enjoy their "lunch" supplements without the added salt.  (-:
--
Linda in CA  2020  Midnight and Ostara
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Linda%20Midnight%20OStara


Plan for bloods to be taken correct ?

Carrie
 

Just booked my vet for end of the month at 1.00 in afternoon.
This is what I think is a good approach to keep stress & pain limited with my donkey. Would you comment if this is my best approach:

1st.-  Blood drawn for ACTH 
2nd-   a- Glucose
b- Adipodectin
3rd Insulin Resistance 

I think all of the above can have hay fed up to the point of bloods being taken or 4 hours prior ?
Following bloods taken we'll move onto Xrays of front hooves  where the vet may give a little sedative to help calm my donkey for the process.
--
Carrie 
March 2021
UK


Re: B vitamins and recommended supplements

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

There are no established dietary requirements for B6, niacin or folic acid so I don't see how they can be called deficient.

Here is some B vitamin information from my NRC Plus course:

 

Full blown deficiency states related to diet have not been found for any of the B vitamins. In addition to dietary sources, all Bs are synthesized by the intestinal microorganisms.

 

Thiamine.

Functions: Required for normal activity of the enzyme pyruvate dehydrogenase, which is the final step for glucose or pyruvate derived from lactate to enter the Krebs cycle. Also required for some enzymes that transform the carbon backbone of amino acids.

NRC recommendation: Unchanged. 3 mg/kg of DM (dry matter) in the diet, now transformed to 0.06 mg/kg of body weight.

Note: One study suggests that exercising horses have higher requirements, 4+ mg/kg of dietary dry matter. Moderate supplementation of up to 100 mg/day may be advisable for performance horses. Higher dosages of 500 to 1000 mg are sometimes effective in calming nervous horses, but are known to lead to glycogen depletion in other species. High carbohydrate diets increase requirements in other species.

Highest natural sources: Grains (3.5 to 5.7 mg/kg); brans and cereal grain byproducts (8 to 23 mg/kg); high protein seed meals (6.4 to 12 mg/kg); brewer's yeast (95.2 mg/kg). Average of 2.7 mg/kg in hays.

 

Riboflavin

Function: A critical cofactor in enzymes (flavoenzymes) involved in oxidation/reduction actions involving the metabolism of fats, proteins and carbohydrates.

NRC Recommendation: Studies suggest diets containing at least 2 mg/kg of dry matter are adequate.

Highest Natural Sources: Legume hays and grass hays. Cereal grains are lower. All common equine feedstuffs contain greater than 2 mg/kg of dry matter, incorporated into the flavoenzymes of the plant.

 

Niacin

Function: Essential for the NAD and NADP enzyme systems, involved in energy generation from fats, carbohydrates and proteins.

NRC Recommendation: None established.

Highest Natural Sources: As for riboflavin, all common feedstuffs contain niacin, although the niacin in seeds and grains may be in an unusable form. Also as for riboflavin, this vitamin is present as a component of the plant's enzyme systems. Niacin can be synthesized from the amino acid tryptophan in the liver.

 

Biotin

Function: Cofactor for enzyme systems involved in gluconeogenesis, fatty acid and amino acid metabolism. Involved in insulin sensitivity in people.

NRC Recommendation: None established.

Note: Interestingly enough, a symptom of biotin deficiency in people is burning feet. Biotin is commonly used to enhance hoof growth and improve hoof integrity, at doses of 10+ mg/day, although only improvement in hoof quality is documented by studies.

Highest Natural Sources: Limited information is available. Alfalfa has about 0.49 mg/kg when fresh, which decreases to less than half this amount in baled hays. Concentration is lower in grains.

 

 

Folic Acid (supplement form)/Folate (naturally occurring form)

Function: Required for interconversion of amino acids. Very important (with pyridoxine and B-12) when protein turnover is high.

NRC Recommendation: None established.

Note: Folate levels in pasture grasses are adequate to support maintenance, pregnancy and growth. Supplementation of horses at pasture leads to rapid excretion in the urine and no increase in blood levels. However, levels of from 1/2 to 1/3 those seen in pastured levels are observed in stabled horses, lowest when they are in exercise. Comparisons of blood levels in horses on high forage versus high concentrate diets have not been done. Supplementation may be advisable for exercising horses with no access to fresh grass but one study suggests absorption of supplemental folic acid is poor in horses. Red beet powder is a high folate, bioavailable source.

Highest Natural Sources: Grains are a poor source (less than 1 mg/kg DM). Hays contain from 2.5 to 4 mg/kg DM.

 

B12 (cyanocobalamin)

Functions: Metabolism of fats, carbohydrates and proteins. Interconversion of amino acids.

NRC Recommendation: None

Highest Natural Sources: B12 does not exist in plants. However, it is abundantly synthesized by the microorganisms in the horse's bowel and this is the presumed source.

 

Pyridoxine

Functions: Metabolism of fats, proteins and carbohydrates. Interconversion of amino acids.

NRC Recommendation: None established.

Highest Natural Sources: Pasture and hays.

 

Pantothenic acid

Functions: Essential cofactor for metabolism of all energy sources in the Krebs cycle.

NRC Recommendations: None established.

Highest Natural Sources: This vitamin is present in all common feedstuffs at levels higher than those known to be adequate from feeding trials.

--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Jiaogulan ok for donkeys ?

Carrie
 

Just checking if the herb Jiaogulan is ok for donkeys to take. My donkey has dropped peddle bones , thin soles.  I read that Dr. Kellon finds this herb more beneficial than Devils Claw, which I've used for a while now & does have a good effect for her. 
I see the two herbs have opposite affects on inflammation etc. The Jiaogulan looks like it could support hoof growth. So with trimming & diet it might help my donkeys feet  to get deeper soles eventually & maybe lift some of the dropped bone up  & out of the hoof capsule a little - giving less pain ..maybe. Administering 20 mins before feed in morning  & an hour before/after feed in the evening requires more planning but it may be worth it for the benefits it offers.
--
Carrie 
March 2021
UK


Xray when resin support on hoof?

Carrie
 

Is it possible to get an Xray of the hoof with resin mould on ? 
Thanks in advance 
--
Carrie 
March 2021
UK


Re: Baby is worsening

 
Edited

Hi, Christopher/Jan.
Thank you for putting your information in a Case History.  Please be sure to re-read the information sent by Martha earlier today. https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/265527  It's a lot to take in. 

What jumps out at me is that Baby's ACTH is above the normal range at the time of the year when it should be at the lowest and that her insulin is high enough to be within the range that can cause hoof pain and laminitis. Some horses are very sensitive to uncontrolled PPID which we measure through ACTH. My own PPID horse was diagnosed in May at the high end of the normal reference range. She was dead lame and her insulin had spiked.

An increase in pergolide dose may help Baby. Prascend is an expensive unpleasant-tasting medication. With difficulties getting Baby to take Prascend, your vet is justified in prescribing compounded powdered pergolide in a capsule with flavoring that is almost sure to be easier to feed in a pill pocket or a handful of safe feed. ECIR files contain information about compounded pergolide, including a list of compounding pharmacies. https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/3%20Cushings%20Disease%20%20PPID/Cushings%20Disease%20Treatments/Pergolide/1.%20Compounded%20Pergolide   Pergolide must be given every day to be effective. Skipping doses will result in uncontrolled PPID, worsening Baby's pain. I suggest you find pergolide in a potent form that you can easily feed every single day.

The best way to remove hoof pain is to remove the triggers for laminitis. Suspect #1 is uncontrolled PPID as indicated by the ACTH.  Suspect #2 is hay that is not safe for a horse with Equine Metabolic Syndrome and/or PPID.  Please post a copy of your hay analysis in your Case History Folder. Details in the analysis are important.  If you have a pdf file, post it in the case history folder. If you have an image file (like a photo from your phone), post it Baby's Photo Album. It's not a dig against the reputable grower that the hay isn't quite suitable for a laminitic horse. You're in an emergency. As Dr Kellon said, soaking the hay is your best bet right now.

If you have hoof Xrays from your veterinarian, be sure to post them to the Photo Album for Dr Kellon and ECIR moderators who can read and interpret them.
--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse and Diamond Case History Folder                
Cayuse Photos                Diamond Photos


Re: B vitamins and recommended supplements

Ann Nuno
 

Thank you.... I did look up the ingredient list for the LMF complete but as it does not provide the levels of the added B vitamins I was not sure if I would be getting the RDA w the the small amount he is getting (3-4 lbs/day)
--

Ann Nuno
Gilroy, CA
2020

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Ann%20and%20Nahar

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=263663


Re: Baby is worsening

Jan4slt@...
 

I reviewed and tabulated the case history.  Thank you for all your ideas/suggestions. She is shod with rocker shoes and padding covered with a plastic plate by reputable farrier who works with the vet clinic. I reviewed my hay content and submitted it in the CH and it is lower than I reported earlier. Tested and sold by reputable ranch distributor

On Jun 10, 2021, at 5:49 PM, Sherry Morse via groups.io <sherry_morse@...> wrote:

Hi Jan,

It would be very helpful if you could take your extended description here: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jan%20Baby and put that in a message to the group as it explains a lot more about the current situation.

As already indicted by both Martha and Dr. Kellon bute and gabapentin are not going to help with a laminitis caused by an endocrine issue and your hay is too high in ESC+starch to be fed to a horse in crisis.  Once you have a case history completed we'll be able to better help you but for a horse that's still eating and drinking I would not be considering euthanasia.  I would be considering ways to make her more comfortable which would include putting her in boots, no longer forcing her to move if she doesn't want to and not allowing her to eat any grass until her insulin is under better control.  I would also stop the Platinum Performance as the base is not suitable for an IR horse.

Thanks,



Re: Need help to upload X-rays and here are labs

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Jan,

None of these results show that her PPID is controlled and that will drive up insulin so increasing her dose of Prascend is going to need to happen as well as the diet changes to help her feel better.

For information on setting up a photo album and posting x-rays please see the Wiki: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/wiki#Photos-and-Hoof-Evaluation-Help

Once you create a folder in the Case History group (info on that here: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/wiki#Case-History-Help) you can post the test results document and your case history in that folder. 





Re: Pony with rt front lameness

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Melanie,

Did you not see my message yesterday: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/265467




Re: Baby is worsening

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Jan,

It would be very helpful if you could take your extended description here: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jan%20Baby and put that in a message to the group as it explains a lot more about the current situation.

As already indicted by both Martha and Dr. Kellon bute and gabapentin are not going to help with a laminitis caused by an endocrine issue and your hay is too high in ESC+starch to be fed to a horse in crisis.  Once you have a case history completed we'll be able to better help you but for a horse that's still eating and drinking I would not be considering euthanasia.  I would be considering ways to make her more comfortable which would include putting her in boots, no longer forcing her to move if she doesn't want to and not allowing her to eat any grass until her insulin is under better control.  I would also stop the Platinum Performance as the base is not suitable for an IR horse.

Thanks,


Need help to upload X-rays and here are labs

Jan4slt@...
 

Janet & Chris Lynds
GB18147 - Baby (Equine, Mare, Saddlebred, Brown, 22 Years 2m 1d Old (22))
Cornell
ACTH Baseline Result: 39.6 pg/mL Ref: 9-35
InsulinBaseline Result:74.39 ulU/ml Ref: 10-40--
Jan L in CA 2021

The age is incorrect she is definitely 25 yrs old this month


Compare with 2019 labs prior to Prascend admin:

Janet & Chris Lynds
GB18147 - Baby (Equine, Mare, Saddlebred, Brown, 22 Years 2m 1d Old (22))
Cornell University
ACTH Baseline Equine
Result: 42.2 pg/mL Reference Interval 9-35

Janet & Chris Lynds
GB18147 - Baby (Equine, Mare, Saddlebred, Brown, 22 Years 2m 1d Old (22))
Cornell University
ACTH Baseline Equine & Insulin Baseline Equine
ACTH Results: 42.2 Ref Range: 9-35
Insulin Results: 29.53 Ref Range: 10-40

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=264927
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jan%20Baby


Re: Baby is worsening

 

I went back through your notes again, Jan, and thought I would add that with thin soles, soaking might well be contraindicated.  We don’t know how thin they are and icing is generally not useful after the first few days.
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Re: Baby is worsening

 

Hi Jan,

Welcome to the ECIR group! 
This response is generated by your first post as new member.  You’ll find lots to read here on our program and philosophy.  Before digging in, let me try to address some of your pressing concerns.  I was in a similar situation with a pony last year and I know it can be frustrating and demoralizing.

She’s eating and drinking so that’s good.  Don’t try to encourage her to move about until she shows you she’s ready.  Make sure she has a deep pile of bedding under her feet and to lie on.  Don’t be discouraged if she spends time lying down.  

It doesn’t sound like she is got boots on, which would help her.  Finding the right pair can be a process so in the meantime, I suggest using insulation board.  It’s foam, a few inches thick and comes in fairly large sheets so you’ll need to cut it to fit her front feet and duct tape it on.  Here, we make a web of duct tape, the pieces of which are large enough to cover the pad and continue on a few inches on either side to adhere to the foot.  The duct tape mat is applied to the foam which is then slipped under the foot. The loose tape ends stick to the hoof.  You’ll need more tape or vet wrap going around the hoof to keep it in place.  This should work for a few days until it needs to be replaced.  That should help her comfort level somewhat.  I generally put baby diapers over the entire apparatus to hold it together.  If you have a Pony Clubber where you board, ask him/her for help.

There is no drug you can give her to alleviate the pain.  Gabapentin is not well absorbed and is not found to be very effective.  Keep weaning her off the bute, as well.  The pain will become less as the triggers are removed.

Our emergency diet suggests that the hay be soaked and rinsed and that ground flax, salt, Mg and vitamin E (Elevate) is added.  I would not worry about adding anything else such as Platinum Performance.  Metformin can be quite effective at the correct dose.  Please let us know what amount you are giving her.

After you set up her stall and get ‘boots’ on her, she should begin to feel better.  So it’s time to take a look at our guidelines.  We focus on D,D,T and E, which stand for diagnosis, diet, trim and later exercise.  We’d like to take a look at your blood work to confirm a diagnosis and the Xrays and photos of her feet so we can assess her trim.  For now, the emergency diet will be best but it’s not a permanent solution.

Please take some time to fill out our case history form.  We ask for information which is important for us to help you the best and your putting it into our format helps us to help you.  Many people balk at this but it’s quite doable if you follow the instructions carefully.  And we are here to help you out.

Now on to the nitty gritty.

The ECIR Group provides the best, most up to date information on Cushing's (PPID) and Equine Metabolic Syndrome (EMS)/Insulin Resistance (IR). Please explore our website where you'll find tons of great information that will help you to quickly understand the main things you need to know to start helping your horse. Also open any of the links below (in blue font) for more information/instructions that will save you time.

Have you started your Case History? If you haven't done so yet, please join our case history sub-group. We appreciate you following the uploading instructions so your folder is properly set up with the documents inside. Go to this CH message with info on how to use various devices and forms. If you have any trouble, just post a message to let us know where you are stuck. 

Orienting information, such as how the different ECIR sections relate to each other, message etiquettewhat goes where and many how-to pages are in the Wiki. There is also an FAQs on our website that will help answer the most common and important questions new members have. 

Below is a general summary of our DDT/E philosophy which is short for Diagnosis, Diet, Trim and Exercise.

 

DIAGNOSIS: There are two conditions dealt with here: Cushings (PPID) and Equine Metabolic Syndrome (EMS)/Insulin Resistance (IR). These are two separate issues that share some overlapping symptoms. An equine may be either PPID or EMS/IR, neither or both. While increasing age is the greatest risk factor for developing PPID, IR can appear at any age and may have a genetic component. Blood work is used for diagnosis as well as monitoring the level of control of each.

PPID is diagnosed using the Endogenous ACTH test, while EMS/IR is diagnosed by testing non-fasting insulin and glucose.

The fat-derived hormone leptin is also usually abnormally elevated in insulin resistance but because there are many other things which can lower or increase leptin ECIR is not recommending routine testing for this hormone. Leptin is the hormone that says "stop eating". 

In Europe, adiponectin is tested instead of leptin. Adiponectin helps regulate glucose and fat burning, and maintain insulin sensitivity. Low levels are associated with EMS. It has come to be preferred over leptin because it is not influenced by things like weight or exercise, and also because it was the only factor other than insulin levels that predicted laminitis risk

*Before calling your vet to draw blood for tests, we suggest saving time and wasted money by reading these details and then sharing them with your vet so that everyone is on the same page regarding correct testing and protocols.

*Please remember to request copies of the results of all the tests done rather than just relying on verbal information. Your vet should be able to email these to you. If you have previous test results, please include those as well. All should go in your CH, but if you are having any trouble with the CH, just post in the messages for now. 

Treatment: EMS is a metabolic type - not a disease - that is managed with a low sugar+starch diet and exercise (as able). The super-efficient easy keeper type breeds such as minis, ponies, Morgans, Arabs, Rockies are some of the classic examples. PPID is a progressive disease that is treated with the medication pergolide. Some, but not all, individuals may experience a temporary loss of appetite, lethargy and/or depression when first starting the medication. To avoid this "pergolide veil" (scroll down for side effects), we recommend weaning onto the drug slowly and the use of the product APF. The best long term results are seen when the ACTH is maintained in the middle of the normal range at all times, including during the annual seasonal rise. To accomplish this, the amount of medication may need to increase over time. Neither condition is ever "cured", only properly controlled for the remainder of the equine's life. If your partner is both PPID and IR then both medication and diet management will be needed. 

DIET: Almost all commercial feeds are not suitable - no matter what it says on the bag. Please see the International Safe Feeds List for the safest suggestions.

No hay is "safe" until proven so by chemical analysis. The diet that works for IR is:

  • low carb (less than 10% sugar+starch)
  • low fat (4% or less) 
  • mineral balanced  

We use grass hay, tested to be under 10% ESC + starch, with minerals added to balance the excesses and deficiencies in the hay, plus salt, and to replace the fragile ingredients that are lost when grass is cured into hay, we add ground flax seed and Vitamin E. This diet is crucial for an EMS/IR horse, but also supports the delicate immune system of a PPID horse. 

*Until you can get your hay tested and balanced we recommend that you soak your hay and use the emergency diet (scroll down for it).  The emergency diet is not intended for long term use, but addresses some of the most common major deficiencies. Testing your hay and getting the minerals balanced to its excesses and deficiencies is the best way to feed any equine. If you absolutely cannot test your hay and balance the minerals to it, or would like to use a "stop gap" product until you get your hay balanced, here's a list of "acceptable" ration balancers

There is a lot of helpful information in the start here folder so it is important you read all the documents found there. The emergency diet involves soaking your untested hay for an hour in cold water or 30 minutes in hot water. This removes up to 30% of the sugar content, but no starch. Starch is worse than sugar since it converts 100% to glucose while sugar only converts 50%, so starch causes a bigger insulin spike. Make sure you dump the soaking water where the equine(s) can't get to it. 

What you don't feed on the EMS/IR diet is every bit as, if not more important than, what you do feed! No grass. No grain. No sugary treats, including apples and carrots. No brown/red salt blocks which contain iron (and sometimes molasses) which interferes with mineral balancing, so white salt blocks only. 

No products containing molasses. No bagged feeds with a combined sugar and starch of over 10% or starch over about 4%, or fat over about 4%. Unfortunately, even bagged feeds that say they are designed for IR and/or PPID equines are usually too high in sugar, starch and/or fat. It’s really important to know the actual analysis and not be fooled by a name that says it is suitable for EMS/IR individuals.

We do not recommend feeding alfalfa hay to EMS/IR equines as it makes many of them laminitic. Although it tends to be low in sugar, many times the starch is higher and does not soak out. Additionally, protein and calcium are quite high, which can contribute to sore footedness and make mineral balancing very difficult.

TRIM: A proper trim is toes backed and heels lowered so that the hoof capsule closely hugs and supports the internal structures of the foot. Though important for all equines, it's essential for IR and/or PPID equines to have a proper trim in place since they are at increased risk for laminitis. After any potential triggers are removed from the diet, and in PPID individuals, the ACTH is under control, the realigning trim is often the missing link in getting a laminitic equine comfortable. In general, laminitic hooves require more frequent trim adjustments to maintain the proper alignment so we recommend the use of padded boots rather than fixed appliances (i.e. shoes, clogs), at least during the initial phases of treatment.

Sometimes subclinical laminitis can be misdiagnosed as arthritis, navicular, or a host of other problems as the animal attempts to compensate for sore feet. 

You are encouraged to make an album and post hoof pictures and any radiographs you might have so we can to look to see if you have an optimal trim in place. Read this section of the wiki for how to get a hoof evaluation, what photos are needed, and how to get the best hoof shots and radiographs.

EXERCISEThe best IR buster there is, but only if the equine is comfortable and non-laminitic. An individual that has had laminitis needs 6-9 months of correct realigning trims before any serious exercise can begin. Once the equine is moving around comfortably at liberty, hand walking can begin in long straight lines with no tight turns. Do not force a laminitic individual to move, or allow its other companions to do so. It will begin to move once the pain begins to subside. Resting its fragile feet is needed for healing to take place so if the animal wants to lay down, do not encourage it to get up. Place feed and water where it can be reached easily without having to move any more than necessary. Be extremely careful about movement while using NSAIDs (bute, banamine, previcox, etc.) as it masks pain and encourages more movement than these fragile feet are actually able to withstand. Additionally, NSAIDs (and icing) do not work on metabolic laminitis and long term NSAID use interferes with healing. Therefore, we recommend tapering off NSAIDs after the first week or so of use. If after a week's time your equine's comfort level has not increased, then the cause of the laminitis has not been removed and keeping up the NSAIDs isn't the answer - you need to address the underlying cause.

 

There is lots more information in our files and archived messages and also on our website. It is a lot of information, so take some time to go over it and feel free to ask any questions. If you are feeling overwhelmed, don't worry, you will catch on, and we are always here to help you! Once you have your case history uploaded, we can help you help your equine partner even better.

For members outside North America, there are country specific folders in the files and many international lists in the wiki to help you find local resources.

If you have any technical difficulties, please let us know so we can help you. 

 

--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Re: L-glutamine

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Hi Lamourah, 

Cass has answered your question about beet pulp - I agree with her and would rinse-soak-rinse it.  Your timothy pellet analysis didn't show up because attachments do not work in this forum.  You can upload a pdf if it to your Case History Folder, or a photo of it to your Case History Album.

My vet travels 6 hrs to visit us 2x a year.  After she pulls blood, I run it down to the local small animal clinic, and they process it, freeze it, and ship it on ice using the pre-addressed courier envelope my equine vet provides.  If there is a nearby small animal clinic, maybe you could arrange something similar?  Or, if as your vet keeps your blood sample on ice or in a car-refrigerator, and gets back to the clinic to spin it within 2 hours, the sample will be fine.

After you have bloodwork done diagnosing your horse with IR, you could discuss a prescription for Metformin.  You might want her on it right away if her insulin is dangerously high, or you might want to reserve it for emergencies, such as a laminitis flareup or priactively if she was to get onto grass by accident.

I took the Hoof Geeks course last summer and loved it!  I hope you do to!  They are very supportive of ECIR.  Unlike Riva's Remedies, we are a free volunteer service offering advice based on scientific literature and years of experience, and of course we are directed by a veterinarian.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album


Re: Baby is worsening

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

For one thing, soak that hay. It's too high for a horse in crisis. Substitute rinsed and soaked beet pulp for the teff pellets. Get hoof photos posted.  The phenylbutazone doesn't help and neither does gabapentin.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001 ns


Re: Pony with rt front lameness

mel7198@...
 

I am hoping someone will look at Aprils x rays and give me their opinion. Thanks
Melanie
--
Melanie Lemoine VT 2021  
Case History
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Melanie%20April


Re: Waiting for retest ACTH , Insulin Resistance & new Xrays

Carrie
 

Sherry , thank you for your quick reply. This confirms I need to book the ACTH & Insulin test this month to help eliminate the issue of chasing the med numbers initially. Hopefully being able to combine my appointment for Xrays too.
--
Carrie 
March 2021
UK


Re: Anyone know a good fit for Donkey Muzzle

Carrie
 

Thanks for offering the advice Patience , I'll add that to my list of possibles!


--
Carrie 
March 2021
UK

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