Date   

Re: Need help ASAP - painful mini

amyscrivanich
 

And when I went to give her banamine she was down ūüėě
--
Amy Scrivanich
Charlotte, NC
Nov 2004 (my original PPID horse passed in 2015)
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Amy%20and%20Mater%20the%20mini

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=264439

 


Re: Need help ASAP - painful mini

amyscrivanich
 

Wow, I panicked and did everything wrong it’s probably what made her make such a sudden turn for the worse.   Removing salt block, taking her off of STP & jiagolulin And will see how she does without boots on.  Vet also called in Invokana and it should be ready tomorrow AM 


--
Amy Scrivanich
Charlotte, NC
Nov 2004 (my original PPID horse passed in 2015)
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Amy%20and%20Mater%20the%20mini

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=264439

 


Re: Need help ASAP - painful mini

Lorna Cane
 

Agree about removing the boots right now, Amy. Unless,of course,she is less comfortable with them off.
Have you checked for rubs? Even a slight bit of bruising on heel bulbs can be excrutiating for some horses. But check other places,too. Coronet area,for example.
Stall mats are really very hard,especially for sore feet.Deep shavings will help her.....6 inches? Not sure how big her stall is,but even if you can deep bed her in the area she uses most,it will help.

--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


Re: Need help ASAP - painful mini

celestinefarm
 

" Pulsing bad on her left front."  
This sounds like a possible abscess.
--
Dawn Wagstaff and Tipperary   

Saline, MI  2003

Tipperary Case History

Juniper Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Dawn%20and%20Juniper/Case%20history%20Juniper.pdf .


Re: Need help ASAP - painful mini

celestinefarm
 

Amy,  I would not continue the Himalyan salt block. The color in those blocks is iron and impurities. Iron can drive insulin up. White iodized salt in her food or loose in a bowl. 
--
Dawn Wagstaff and Tipperary   

Saline, MI  2003

Tipperary Case History

Juniper Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Dawn%20and%20Juniper/Case%20history%20Juniper.pdf .


Re: Need help ASAP - painful mini

celestinefarm
 

Ok I looked up STP. STP stands for Stop The Pain.  Here are the ingredients. Agree with Lorna, discontinue this immediately as it contains yucca and dextrose.
Ingredients: Bio-Flavonoids, Bupieurum, Devil’s Claw, Yucca Extract, Boswellia, Water, Dextrose, Natural and Artificial Flavorin

Also, if you believe she is in active laminitis, I would not use Jiaogulan now either.  If she were mine, she would be bedded on a lot of shavings and I would consider taking the Soft Rides off. I find Soft Rides work for going outside or on hard surfaces but if they are just standing around, IMO, they keep continuous pressure on the soles and frogs and laminitics can become extremely uncomfortable with them on for long periods. I think they work best when the horse is moving around which allows them to take weight off the gel and the bottom of the foot. 
--
Dawn Wagstaff and Tipperary   

Saline, MI  2003

Tipperary Case History

Juniper Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Dawn%20and%20Juniper/Case%20history%20Juniper.pdf .


Re: Need help ASAP - painful mini

amyscrivanich
 

She is laying down a little more than normal, So mainly up and very painful walking.    Pulsing bad on her left front.
cubes w rinsed beet pulp (I am stopping beet pulp tonight ) access to Himalayan salt block, deep bedding w mats yes to flax , no to vit E 

Vet said to give her 4 ml’s banamine which I’m doing right now 


thank you 
--
Amy Scrivanich
Charlotte, NC
Nov 2004 (my original PPID horse passed in 2015)
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Amy%20and%20Mater%20the%20mini

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=264439

 


Re: Need help ASAP - painful mini

Lorna Cane
 

Hi Amy, 

STP contains yucca and isn't recommended for IR horses.

I just posted a link for you but it was the wrong one,so I deleted it.
I'll look for another, to back up what I said.

--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


Re: Need help ASAP - painful mini

Lorna Cane
 

P.S. Amy,

Is she down all the time?
Up and down?
Walking at all?
Eating and drinking well?
Is her stall deep bedded?
Does she get loose salt? Vitamin E ?
I see that she gets ODTB cubes exclusively,yes?  And flax?

--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


Re: Need help ASAP - painful mini

celestinefarm
 

Amy,
I"m not sure from your post. She is footsore now, correct? Is she confined to a stall 24/7? What is STP?  I'm just clarifying these questions for either Dr. Kellon or one of the mods with experience with metformin who can help you. 
--
Dawn Wagstaff and Tipperary   

Saline, MI  2003

Tipperary Case History

Juniper Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Dawn%20and%20Juniper/Case%20history%20Juniper.pdf .


Re: Need help ASAP - painful mini

amyscrivanich
 

Correction - IR test was May 7th (not March ). I‚Äôm a mess ūüėę
--
Amy Scrivanich
Charlotte, NC
Nov 2004 (my original PPID horse passed in 2015)
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Amy%20and%20Mater%20the%20mini

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=264439

 


Need help ASAP - painful mini

amyscrivanich
 

I knew we were heading in this direction when we pulled her annual bloodwork(in March) and it showed her insulin >200.   I have kept her in the stall on mats, put her soft ride boots on, started her on STP ( 2 weeks ago) and jiaogulan (3 days ago).   I don’t have time to update her CH with those changes as I think she is going to founder on me and I’m going to lose her.  I just want to get her out of pain right now. Please help ! 

Amy & Mater
--
Amy Scrivanich
Charlotte, NC
Nov 2004 (my original PPID horse passed in 2015)
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Amy%20and%20Mater%20the%20mini

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=264439

 


Re: Summer Temps

nikkibob1994@...
 

Whew, thank you, i was beginning to tear my hair out trying to figure out what he was getting into for the third summer in a row!! I even blamed the neighbour's kids for sneaking him something!!!
--
Nikkibob
Wisconsin, Sept 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nikki%20and%20Darby 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=77396


Re: Insulin response to eating

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

No, there's no formula like that. What researchers have done is try to establish a ceiling for the one hour or 1.5 hour insulin.  The most commonly proposed upper limit is 60 uIU/mL but some have used as high as 100 and on the lower end a ceiling of 45 uIU has been proposed. To put this in perspective, if you look at studies using normal horses the response can be as low as 20 uIU/mL.

If correct upper limits for baseline, fed low S/S or fasted, are used, there's no need for those "challenge" tests.

As an aside, I don't use the term ID https://wp.me/p2WBdh-18f .
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Butterscotch and Naomi first post

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Naomi,


As Kirsten already noted Rice Bran can be problematic for many IR horses and since she's a breed that can be IR until you are able to get an insulin level on her I would err on the side of not feeding that nor letting her out on grass. 

As far as feeding amounts - you have her listed as currently being 800lbs which would be FAT for a 12.3 pony.  Looking at the pictures you shared they're not the best angle to judge, but she does not look THAT fat.  If you don't have a weight tape could you perhaps use the calculator https ://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/5%20Core%20Diet/Weights%20and%20Measures/How%20to%20Find%20Ideal%20Body%20Weight.pdf to determine her current weight?  I would expect her to be about 550 - 600lbs at that height and to feed her accordingly you need to feed either 1.5% of her current weight or 2% of her ideal weight - whichever is more.  IF she truly is 800lbs she should be eating no more than 16 pounds a day TOTAL (including hay and enough carrier to get her supplements in).  You have her as eating somewhere between 12 - 18lbs of hay and a pound of dry beet pulp which is maybe more than she needs.  Even erring on the high side she should be eating no more than 12lbs a day max if she really is 600lbs. 

To administer Prascend, I'm a fan of syringing to make sure it all gets in the horse or pony, but you can use a the end of a carrot and core it out to hide the pill in it, a small piece of apple and stick the pill in it, a peanut shell or a pony pill pocket (not the molasses version) to get her to eat it.



Re: Summer Temps

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Yes.  Hot temperatures can increase the strength of the digital pulses because the blood vessels in the extremities dilate. They won't be pounding as in laminitis, just easier to feel.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Summer Temps

nikkibob1994@...
 

Has anyone else noticed an increase of strength  in digital pulse (not a quickening) during the heat of summer when no other circumstances for the horse has changed? 
--
Nikkibob
Wisconsin, Sept 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nikki%20and%20Darby 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=77396


Re: Insulin response to eating

nikkibob1994@...
 

Is there a ratio or formula used to show how much greater the insulin response is to glucose in ID horses vs normal horses? For instance, if glucose is elevated in a normal horse 3 times its fasting level,  and the insulin response also is 3 times the fasting level, then would it be expected to see in an ID horse that if glucose is elevated 3 times its fasting level then insulin could potentially be elevated 6 times its fasting level showing a disproportionate increase?
--
Nikkibob
Wisconsin, Sept 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nikki%20and%20Darby 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=77396


Re: Boron for arthritis and IR

Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 

Thanks Dr Kellon!! What is angood option, I do want to add itt back to see if it helps with his arthritis. I was looking at platinum's supplement that has boron and magnesium, but I think I am already giving enough mag in the two uckele products.  I wish uckele made a formula with boron :)

Thanks Nancy
--
Nancy and Vinnie and Summer
Oakley, Ca
Joined Nov 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245855

Summer
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie/Summer 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=249104


Re: Vit C in Farriers formula 2x strength--safe for IR horses?

celestinefarm
 

Hi Mary,
The Vit C in FF is not high and there are supplements ECIR recommends for specific situations that includes Vit C. so I would not be concerned with it. However, depending on what your friend's horse is consuming regarding bagged feeds, etc. there are some issues with FF . IF this horse is only receiving hay and this supplement, then it will be very deficient in selenium.  As you know, our area of Michigan has very low selenium in the soil. FF has no added selenium. You would need to know what else the horse is eating to determine if it is receiving adequate selenium. Also, hays in this area are typically low in copper, zinc, possibly high in manganese,  FF is low in copper and zinc. The analysis on the bag is reported as ppm. An 85 gram serving provides 92 mgs copper, 249 mgs zinc, and 1.2 mgs.iodine if I did my conversions correctly. That may not be enough copper and zinc to overcome high iron. Iodine might be too low.  Depends on what else horse is eating.
--
Dawn Wagstaff and Tipperary   

Saline, MI  2003

Tipperary Case History

Juniper Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Dawn%20and%20Juniper/Case%20history%20Juniper.pdf .

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