Date   

Dr Kellon - Riosa Tying Up Episode and Treatment help

hdavis
 

Rio had a bad tying up episode last night and I suspect this is what has been happening to her all along but in a mild form. 


Her muscles were super tight over the hind end, stiff legged in all legs, tight abdominal muscles, increased respiration rates, head shaking, blank wide eyed look and not eating or drinking.  Her temp was normal and I wanted to attempt to warm her muscles up to perhaps help but too hot to put a blanket on her. She was just getting worse and worse so I gave her 10cc of banamine orally hoping it would help her muscles relax. In about half and hour she was much better and walked out to get water from the trough outside her stall (even though she had a pail in her stall) and was eating happily. 


This am she is marching around her paddock with very little indication that she has been lame for the past couple of days. No front end lameness and only slight hind end stiffness. Makes me think we are not dealing with laminitis at all or even hind end lameness and something totally different.

I will call my vet this am but I wanted to reach out to ECIR and Dr. Kellon to find out what treatment options I have for her if this happens again? She is on 300mg of Invokana so giving her the banamine (orally) last night wasn’t perhaps the best thing but she was in crisis and that’s what I did. :(

For a horse that has tying up issues can I give muscle relaxant to help them or what does a person do? 

Has anyone else been having any issues with tying up in the hot weather?  She gets 3.4 ounces of salt with her mineral blend and then I add in salt accordingly to weather if needed. Not sure it is weather related but I do notice her issues seem to arise when the temp drops quite a bit. This last time over 30C with high humidity and dropped down over night to 16c and rain. Next day stiff horse,  I had gotten smarter and made sure to add blanked or rain sheets during those temp swings so that is helping a bit but hard to blanket when the temps are still warmer and when she is already having some tying up symptoms.   

She does not appear to be dehydrated and is drinking well. I was hoping to pull bloods in the next week or 2 for insulin, glucose, triglycerides and vitamin e but was wondering should we run any other tests as well.  Just want all my ducks in a row when I call my vet this am.

A tech will be pulling the blood and not a vet. With this recent episode I am leery about hauling her and her tying up in the trailer if she continues to have these episodes before the appt.

Suggestions and help please. Thanks in advance.
--
Heather
August 5, 2017, Brandon, Manitoba, Canada

Riosa 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Heather%20and%20Riosa

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=8819 


Storm

Case History


 




Re: Update on Cadet, we made it to Washington, Lavinia please look at new radiographs

riggslippert@...
 

Thank you Dr. Kellon!  Do you mean that I should recheck Cadet's Cornell results before I decide about increasing the pergolide dosage?
--
Aunna
October 2018
Island County, Washington, USA
Cadet Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Aunna%20and%20Cadet
Ruger Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Aunna%20and%20Ruger

Cadet Photo Album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=84102




Re: Pergolide dosage advice on Ruger please

riggslippert@...
 

Thank you Martha!
--
Aunna
October 2018
Island County, Washington, USA
Cadet Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Aunna%20and%20Cadet
Ruger Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Aunna%20and%20Ruger

Cadet Photo Album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=84102




Re: Bullitt - Body condition and Hoof Questions

Cindy Q
 
Edited

Hi Sarah

As you mentioned that he drags the hinds and walks narrow, I was wondering if you ever got him any bodywork eg. massage or chiro. In any event, you may want to look up on youtube Masterson Method. He (Jim Masterson) has several introductory free videos on how can you do some tension release for your pony yourself. Start with the bladder meridian one! I've done the workshop when he was in Australia but he's from the states.

About doing yourself, if you want to remove those flaps on the frogs that Lavinia had marked out (yellow hedging near the widest part of the frogs), I find that bonsai nippers work very well for that! Tian Bonsai Nippers are on amazon and are often recommended/sharp/good quality. I've also used them to nipper back a little section of long/uneven toe on ponies sometimes. I have this one with a straight but slanted edge https://www.amazon.com/Branch-Mu-Tian-Concave-Straight/dp/B00HANNN5O/  . Good rasp yes from any farrier shop. If you have a local one good. If not, I buy online from Well Shod (flat shipping 10 USD). Hellers and Bellotas are pretty popular. You will need basic workman gloves. A good resource to learn with is Pete's DVD series Under the Horse. Wondering how long your usual trim cycle is. You did mention this one was one week overdue.

--
Cindy and Glow (over the rainbow bridge) - Sep 2017, Singapore
ECIR Primary Response





Re: Saraphina IR

CYNDI CARLSON
 


-- thank you Cass this really helps a lot as I keep trying to get her to eat her beet pulp and TC with her minerals. Will use your ideas!
Cyndi Carlson in Colorado 2021


Re: Saraphina IR

CYNDI CARLSON
 


Re: Does a low carb, low sugar diet help with relaxation

Jennifer Green
 

Hi Lorna,

There’s s photo in his case history from May at the start of the emergency fury. His sheath wasn’t swollen but when I look at photos between now  and then EVERYTHING else looks swollen to me now. I saw him every day and I’m kind of disheartened that I didn’t notice at at times. I knew genetically, he could have issues which is why I had been running  the  test every year. But how not have seen it, ugh ?? I feel like we were 5 seconds from founder.
--
J.Green 
MA, USA
2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Fergus%20Case%20History
CaseHistory@ECIR.groups.io | Album


Re: Does a low carb, low sugar diet help with relaxation

Lorna Cane
 

Hi Jennifer,

His March insulin numbers  are extremely high.
I don't know what else you are feeding, but definitely removing sugars from his hay,by soaking, can affect him. Does he have a swollen sheath? Bulges above his eyes? Fat pads on body?
When I began to soak hay for my IR paint pony years ago,I noticed a decrease in the size of his sheath with 3 days.

--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


Does a low carb, low sugar diet help with relaxation

Jennifer Green
 

Here’s my nightly question. Ever since I started soaking Ferg’s hay, I’ve noticed he’s been less tense and less reactive under saddle. He seems generally less edgy. He’s a pony with a LOT of go and he can go and go, so I have to admit, I’m kind of enjoying where we’re at these days. It’s like all the power without the chaos. He’s still has lots of energy, but its much more easily managed. Others have noticed this change too. So my questions are 1) am I am imagining this 2)if I test his hay and it turns out it doesn’t need to be soaked after all, will he go back to the way he was; could the sugar have been hyping him up like it does with some kids?  


Thanks!! 


 
--
J.Green 
MA, USA
2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Fergus%20Case%20History
CaseHistory@ECIR.groups.io | Album


Re: Conversion

Lorna Cane
 

Hi Duane,

Have you seen these 2 messages below? Maybe they can help?

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/262021

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/topic/81023261#262019



--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


Re: Pergolide dosage advice on Ruger please

 

Great news on the travels, Aunna!  
I think the dosage increase sounds like a good plan.  Even if it’s not absolutely necessary, it won’t cause any harm.
--

Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Re: Labs results for review

 

Hi Vicky,
I don’t think it matters when he gets his pergolide as long as it’s consistent.  I never put pergolide in my horses’ feed because the chances are good that one of them will spit it out somewhere and I’ll never know, unless I happen to notice it someday in the corner of the stall.  I insert it in the cheek pocket, way back but avoiding the teeth, and then watch for a bit.

I don’t think you’ll notice if you give him “too much”.  He appears to tolerate it well.  With my own horses, I check ACTH levels fairly regularly but I will increase the dose without testing if it seems it might help.  If the pergolide readjustment does not result in any desired changes, cutting it back is always an option, aiming for a single dose each day.  The bigger problem is increasing the dose too quickly.  The general guidelines are that if he becomes somewhat dopey, standing around staring into space, go back to your starting dose and increase more slowly.
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Re: Update on Cadet, we made it to Washington, Lavinia please look at new radiographs

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Aunna,

Take a deep breath and relax - you've earned it.  Give it about 2 weeks for acclimation before you repeat labs.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Saraphina IR

Lorna Cane
 

Go, Cyndi !!

Another good supplement carrier is soy hull pellets .
You only need to add a bit of water (feeding dry 'can' cause choke) ,which softens them up in seconds .No R/S/R.

--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


Pergolide dosage advice on Ruger please

riggslippert@...
 

Hello,

As I detailed in another message, we made it to Washington intact.  Ruger traveled like a champ.  His Cornell ACTH result in early July was 21.4 pg/mL (RI 2-35 pg/mL).  I was thinking that, once he is settled in his new home, I would inch his pergolide dosage from 2.5 mg QD to 3.0 mg QD in anticipation of the seasonal rise.  Does this sound like a good plan?  Thank you!
--
Aunna
October 2018
Oakland County, Michigan, USA
Cadet Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Aunna%20and%20Cadet
Ruger Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Aunna%20and%20Ruger

Cadet Photo Album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=84102




Update on Cadet, we made it to Washington, Lavinia please look at new radiographs

riggslippert@...
 

Hello,

Cadet gave me a scare by developing sore feet at the boarding barn during the 4 days that we were driving from Michigan to Washington.  I had a veterinarian check him for two days prior to his transport to be as sure as possible he was able to stand for his journey.  It took 17.5 hours and he and Ruger arrived in amazing shape, not dehydrated or sweaty, having eaten almost all the hay they were provided.  The transport company was excellent at providing updates on their progress.  Whew!

Since his arrival, he has been in a dry lot with Ruger, eating soaked hay (we're waiting on analysis).  I have not detected any lameness or increased pulses, but the lot is small enough all he can do is walk.  He'll be turned out on the track with a sealed muzzle for 2-3 hours at a time initially, until we can do more to manage the small amount of grass on it. 

Biochemical profile from early July showed normal triglycerides (64 mg/dL, RI 10-90 mg/dl) and liver enzymes.  Cornell laboratory results showed higher glucose (112 mg/dL, RI 71-122 mg/dL) and insulin (137.51 mIU//mL, RI 10-40 uIU/mL) than April, but excellent ACTH results (13.6 pg/mL, RI 2-35 pg/mL).  I was unsure whether to increase his pergolide in anticipation of the seasonal rise.  I will update his CH as soon as I have more consistent computer access.

I had new radiographs taken on 7/6/21, ten days after his most recent trim.  I would appreciate any comments on them prior to his next trim (with a new trimmer, very hard to find out here) on 7/26/21.

As always, I am so grateful for the support of Dr. Kellon, this group, and it's moderators.  I don't think I would have been able to bring Cadet out with us without their help.

--
Aunna
October 2018
Island County, Washington, USA
Cadet Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Aunna%20and%20Cadet
Ruger Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Aunna%20and%20Ruger

Cadet Photo Album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=84102




Re: Saraphina IR

CYNDI CARLSON
 


Re: Too Thin and Weepy Eyes

Stacey Smith-Bohn
 

Sherry, questions about the weepy eyes, if it is related to early PPID would it happen just from July to early fall as this has been the past few years?  If it starts in mid to late July each year is it connected to the fall seasonal rise, and if so am I too late to test?  As you may remember, since you have been kind to help us in the past, we have tested ACTH in the spring the past 3 years and he didn't test positive but has been showing signs in the fall and winter that has raised concerns.  Then this last winter he had horrible founder  and vet put him on 1 Prascend a day.  We did ACTH, Insulin, Leptin, Glucose, T4 on July 13th hoping that it would tell us where we stand and whether we need to increase his meds. I thought I had read that the Stim test was not helpful if they are already on medication for PPID.   I want what is best for the horse but I want to better understand what this additional test can show us.  Will it just show us if it is not under control or will it give us some indication how much more  Prascend he needs? Should we go ahead and increase his medication to see if he gains weight???   
--
Stacey Smith-Bohn, New Jersey, 2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Stacey%20and%20Terry
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=261301


Re: Labs results for review

Maxine McArthur
 

On Thu, Jul 22, 2021 at 05:22 AM, vicky monen wrote:
I have posted a new pic in my album to see if you think he is a body score of 7 as I do? 
Vicki, he’s at a bit of an angle so it’s  hard to see his neck and rump profile—there seems to still be some lumpy fat on his rump? Without hands on, I’d 
 be hesitant to give a number, 7 might be pretty close, but I’d like to say that he looks a lot healthier than most of the haffies I see here—they are a very tough breed to manage without working them hard all day, every day. If hay soaking helps to counter reduced exercise, it’s worth trying.
--
Maxine and Indy (PPID) and Dangles (PPID)

Canberra, Australia 2010
ECIR Primary Response

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Maxine%20and%20Indy%20and%20Dangles 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=933

 


ECIR Group 2021 NO Laminitis! Conference -- Breakout Sessions

Nancy C
 

Do you need help —
  • Understanding fructan?
  • How to get a solid hay test?
  • Negotiating the groups, libraries and information on the ECIR discussion forum?
  • Getting your Case History in place?
  • Using ECHoof ?
  • Understanding when sole support would help?
  • Learning more about trimming?
  • Understanding the best use of slow hay feeders and safe treats?
  • Do you just have questions?
Fast, 15-minute information sessions, run by ECIR Group Support Team and attending Benefactors will take place at the end of the day, Friday and Saturday.

Details:
  • Lavinia Fiscaletti — Using ECIR Hoof to support prevention and recovery.
  • Maxine McArthur — Getting around the ECIR Group on groups.io.
  • Kirsten Rasmussen — DDT + E —What is it? Why use it?
  • Martha McSherry — Case History how to — tips and tricks on any device!
  • Kathleen Gustafson, PhD — Friday: Fructan. Again. No. Really.  Saturday: There are no dumb questions – ask me anything.
  • Sarah Fessenden — Dairy One/Equi-Analytical
  • Miranda Fior — Pure Sole Products
  • Alexi Schaapveld —  Hay Chix
  • Scott Cieslar — Mad Barn
  • Jeannean Mercuri — Progressive Hoof Care Providers


When: The weekend of August 13 - 15, 2021.


Where: ECIR Virtual Conference Room at the location of your choice.


Full information and registration www.nolaminitis.org



Thanks to all who have registered already! We have over 200 attendees with 23 days to go!

As always, many thanks to our generous Benefactors who strongly support the needs of the ECIR Group members.

DIAMOND 
California Trace
Soft-Ride Equine Comfort Boots
Auburn Laboratories, Inc. - APF
ForagePlus
Uckele
Mad Barn
Custom Equine Nutrition - VT Blend
HorseTech

PLATINUM 
Black Horse Spirit, LLC
Progressive Hoof Care Providers

GOLD 
Anderson Feed - NuZu Feed
Omega Fields
Equi-Analytical
My Best Horse
Hay Chix
Island Pharmacy
Beet-E-Bites
Triple Crown
Pure Sole
Ontario Dehy

SILVER 
Sox for Horses

BRONZE
New England Equine Balance
Yank Gulch Equine
Great Plains Forage Balance
Ration Plus

On behalf of your hosts,
Cindy McGinley and Sherry Morse,

and

the 2021 NO Laminitis! Conference Committee.

--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2020-2021
Join us at the 2021 NO Laminitis! Conference, August 13-15, ECIR Virtual Conference Room

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