Date   

Re: Previcox and Jiaogulan

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

The Previcox will block the Jiaogulan effects. Taper him off by backing to 1/4 for three days then every other day for three more doses. When you get to the every other day you can start the Jiaogulan.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Update on Cadet, we made it to Washington, Lavinia please look at new radiographs

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Yes.

--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Dr Kellon - Riosa Tying Up Episode and Treatment help

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Heather,

Tying-up is caused by exercise. Was she running around? Was her urine discolored?  It's almost impossible to help you without being able to examine her but at this point I'm highly suspicious of a back problem.

Take a capped ball point pen and run it firmly down the middle of her back and over her rump to the tail. Tell us what she does.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Previcox and Jiaogulan

spiritunbroken1@...
 

I know it is not recommended for horses to be on Previcox and Jiaogulan at the same time. Is there a way to transition over from the Previcox to the Jiaogulan without causing a lot of discomfort for our boy? For example, can they be given together if they are offset from each other (giving one in the morning and the other at night)? Or do we have to totally go off the Previcox to go to the Jiaogulan?

I'm sorry we don't have case files uploaded yet. He is a 24 yr Arab gelding diagnosed with Cushings last year. He was on 1/4 tab of Previcox for some Arthritis in his hips and hocks. He was bumped up to 1/2 a tab because of some recent laminitis issues (we have since changed farriers to someone who will correct and trim his feet properly). He is also on 2g of P.E.A. 2x/day for the past few weeks, as he wasn't showing much change with only 2g 1/day.

Thank you,
--
Chris S, Calgary, AB, Canada, 2020


Re: When to retest

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

That's a significant drop in weight already!  Just keep at it.  It takes time.

Now that most of his hay is being soaked, too, you could have his insulin and glucose done again so you can see the effect that, and the other diet changes plus the weight loss, have had.  It's very motivating to see when you are on the right track, and good to know whether or not he would benefit from more dietary changes.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album


Re: Too Thin and Weepy Eyes

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

It's never to late to test baseline ACTH.  But if he needs an increase in pergolide, now is the time to start increasing the dose.  The TRH Stim test really should be done outside the seasonal rise though so if you don't do that soon (ie in the next week) you might have difficulty interpreting the results.  Generally we recommend taking them off pergolide for at least 3 weeks prior to the stim test, which I don't think you should do now.

Another option is to test baseline ACTH in the middle of the seasonal rise (late Sep, early Oct).  That will show you how high it goes in Terry.  Of course, by then any medication increase will have less of an effect, but you will have a better idea of how well his pergolide is controlling the PPID.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album


Re: Does a low carb, low sugar diet help with relaxation

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Hi Jennifer,

It's probably because you saw him every day that you didn't notice...  All that exercise he gets has probably kept him sound, too.  Soaking hay can have a dramatic effect, not only on insulin but also on physical appearance.  I can see that if he has less excess calories in his diet, his energy levels might drop a bit with the reduction in calories caused by soaking hay.  It will help with his weight loss, too, but you might want to check that the combined weight of hay and carrier he is getting is conducive to weight loss.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album


Re: Does a low carb, low sugar diet help with relaxation

Trisha DePietro
 

Hi Jennifer.  So, Here's the thing about soaking hay....Yes- if your hay tests less than 10% sugar and starch combined- according to theory you would not have to soak. HOWEVER- say for example, your hay comes in at 8-9% sugar and starch combined....you could feed it out without soaking...BUT you have to watch your horse---some horses need even lower like 6-7%  or  5%- it just depends on your horse and what his trigger is..so you might have to still soak to get that sugar number down. In the case of Ferg, I would watch his attitude as one of your markers--- and add it to your list of observable areas ie puffy eye sockets, crest, sheath, shoulder fat pads, tail fat pads, etc.... Hope this helps....:) 
--
Trisha DePietro
Aug 2018
NH
Dolly and Hope's Case Histories
Dolly's Photos 
Hope's Photos 
Primary Responder


Dr Kellon - Riosa Tying Up Episode and Treatment help

hdavis
 

Rio had a bad tying up episode last night and I suspect this is what has been happening to her all along but in a mild form. 


Her muscles were super tight over the hind end, stiff legged in all legs, tight abdominal muscles, increased respiration rates, head shaking, blank wide eyed look and not eating or drinking.  Her temp was normal and I wanted to attempt to warm her muscles up to perhaps help but too hot to put a blanket on her. She was just getting worse and worse so I gave her 10cc of banamine orally hoping it would help her muscles relax. In about half and hour she was much better and walked out to get water from the trough outside her stall (even though she had a pail in her stall) and was eating happily. 


This am she is marching around her paddock with very little indication that she has been lame for the past couple of days. No front end lameness and only slight hind end stiffness. Makes me think we are not dealing with laminitis at all or even hind end lameness and something totally different.

I will call my vet this am but I wanted to reach out to ECIR and Dr. Kellon to find out what treatment options I have for her if this happens again? She is on 300mg of Invokana so giving her the banamine (orally) last night wasn’t perhaps the best thing but she was in crisis and that’s what I did. :(

For a horse that has tying up issues can I give muscle relaxant to help them or what does a person do? 

Has anyone else been having any issues with tying up in the hot weather?  She gets 3.4 ounces of salt with her mineral blend and then I add in salt accordingly to weather if needed. Not sure it is weather related but I do notice her issues seem to arise when the temp drops quite a bit. This last time over 30C with high humidity and dropped down over night to 16c and rain. Next day stiff horse,  I had gotten smarter and made sure to add blanked or rain sheets during those temp swings so that is helping a bit but hard to blanket when the temps are still warmer and when she is already having some tying up symptoms.   

She does not appear to be dehydrated and is drinking well. I was hoping to pull bloods in the next week or 2 for insulin, glucose, triglycerides and vitamin e but was wondering should we run any other tests as well.  Just want all my ducks in a row when I call my vet this am.

A tech will be pulling the blood and not a vet. With this recent episode I am leery about hauling her and her tying up in the trailer if she continues to have these episodes before the appt.

Suggestions and help please. Thanks in advance.
--
Heather
August 5, 2017, Brandon, Manitoba, Canada

Riosa 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Heather%20and%20Riosa

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=8819 


Storm

Case History


 




Re: Update on Cadet, we made it to Washington, Lavinia please look at new radiographs

riggslippert@...
 

Thank you Dr. Kellon!  Do you mean that I should recheck Cadet's Cornell results before I decide about increasing the pergolide dosage?
--
Aunna
October 2018
Island County, Washington, USA
Cadet Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Aunna%20and%20Cadet
Ruger Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Aunna%20and%20Ruger

Cadet Photo Album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=84102




Re: Pergolide dosage advice on Ruger please

riggslippert@...
 

Thank you Martha!
--
Aunna
October 2018
Island County, Washington, USA
Cadet Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Aunna%20and%20Cadet
Ruger Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Aunna%20and%20Ruger

Cadet Photo Album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=84102




Re: Bullitt - Body condition and Hoof Questions

Cindy Q
 
Edited

Hi Sarah

As you mentioned that he drags the hinds and walks narrow, I was wondering if you ever got him any bodywork eg. massage or chiro. In any event, you may want to look up on youtube Masterson Method. He (Jim Masterson) has several introductory free videos on how can you do some tension release for your pony yourself. Start with the bladder meridian one! I've done the workshop when he was in Australia but he's from the states.

About doing yourself, if you want to remove those flaps on the frogs that Lavinia had marked out (yellow hedging near the widest part of the frogs), I find that bonsai nippers work very well for that! Tian Bonsai Nippers are on amazon and are often recommended/sharp/good quality. I've also used them to nipper back a little section of long/uneven toe on ponies sometimes. I have this one with a straight but slanted edge https://www.amazon.com/Branch-Mu-Tian-Concave-Straight/dp/B00HANNN5O/  . Good rasp yes from any farrier shop. If you have a local one good. If not, I buy online from Well Shod (flat shipping 10 USD). Hellers and Bellotas are pretty popular. You will need basic workman gloves. A good resource to learn with is Pete's DVD series Under the Horse. Wondering how long your usual trim cycle is. You did mention this one was one week overdue.

--
Cindy and Glow (over the rainbow bridge) - Sep 2017, Singapore
ECIR Primary Response





Re: Saraphina IR

CYNDI CARLSON
 


-- thank you Cass this really helps a lot as I keep trying to get her to eat her beet pulp and TC with her minerals. Will use your ideas!
Cyndi Carlson in Colorado 2021


Re: Saraphina IR

CYNDI CARLSON
 


Re: Does a low carb, low sugar diet help with relaxation

Jennifer Green
 

Hi Lorna,

There’s s photo in his case history from May at the start of the emergency fury. His sheath wasn’t swollen but when I look at photos between now  and then EVERYTHING else looks swollen to me now. I saw him every day and I’m kind of disheartened that I didn’t notice at at times. I knew genetically, he could have issues which is why I had been running  the  test every year. But how not have seen it, ugh ?? I feel like we were 5 seconds from founder.
--
J.Green 
MA, USA
2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Fergus%20Case%20History
CaseHistory@ECIR.groups.io | Album


Re: Does a low carb, low sugar diet help with relaxation

Lorna Cane
 

Hi Jennifer,

His March insulin numbers  are extremely high.
I don't know what else you are feeding, but definitely removing sugars from his hay,by soaking, can affect him. Does he have a swollen sheath? Bulges above his eyes? Fat pads on body?
When I began to soak hay for my IR paint pony years ago,I noticed a decrease in the size of his sheath with 3 days.

--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


Does a low carb, low sugar diet help with relaxation

Jennifer Green
 

Here’s my nightly question. Ever since I started soaking Ferg’s hay, I’ve noticed he’s been less tense and less reactive under saddle. He seems generally less edgy. He’s a pony with a LOT of go and he can go and go, so I have to admit, I’m kind of enjoying where we’re at these days. It’s like all the power without the chaos. He’s still has lots of energy, but its much more easily managed. Others have noticed this change too. So my questions are 1) am I am imagining this 2)if I test his hay and it turns out it doesn’t need to be soaked after all, will he go back to the way he was; could the sugar have been hyping him up like it does with some kids?  


Thanks!! 


 
--
J.Green 
MA, USA
2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Fergus%20Case%20History
CaseHistory@ECIR.groups.io | Album


Re: Conversion

Lorna Cane
 

Hi Duane,

Have you seen these 2 messages below? Maybe they can help?

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/262021

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/topic/81023261#262019



--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


Re: Pergolide dosage advice on Ruger please

 

Great news on the travels, Aunna!  
I think the dosage increase sounds like a good plan.  Even if it’s not absolutely necessary, it won’t cause any harm.
--

Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Re: Labs results for review

 

Hi Vicky,
I don’t think it matters when he gets his pergolide as long as it’s consistent.  I never put pergolide in my horses’ feed because the chances are good that one of them will spit it out somewhere and I’ll never know, unless I happen to notice it someday in the corner of the stall.  I insert it in the cheek pocket, way back but avoiding the teeth, and then watch for a bit.

I don’t think you’ll notice if you give him “too much”.  He appears to tolerate it well.  With my own horses, I check ACTH levels fairly regularly but I will increase the dose without testing if it seems it might help.  If the pergolide readjustment does not result in any desired changes, cutting it back is always an option, aiming for a single dose each day.  The bigger problem is increasing the dose too quickly.  The general guidelines are that if he becomes somewhat dopey, standing around staring into space, go back to your starting dose and increase more slowly.
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 

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