Date   

Oat Hay

Colleen Hanly
 

I may have an opportunity to trial oat hay.  I have seen some information but not much other than facebook groups.  Does anyone know about the nutritional content before it goes to grain or have any good research references I can go look at?  We have and IR, and HYPP and several geriatric (over 25) all healthy and in regular work so if this is another good forage source I would love to know more.
Thanks in advance.

--
Colleen Price in NY 2021


Re: Bailey chronic RF lameness

Karen
 

She got caught in barbed wire and cut off the outside heel bulb through her coronet band. You can see the scar in the pictures. Her hoof has always looked like the first picture. She's missing some of the hoof wall in the very back and now her hoof is now misshapen. The hoof that did grow back looks like that multi-layered hoof wall picture. On 7/21 I called some farriers that work at the local equine hospital to come evaluate her hoof. They cut that outside layered to see if they could find the abscess. Of course, they didn't but they did see the hoof wall that you can now see in the other pictures. It actually looks pretty healthy.  She has not showed a response to the hoof testers since April.  She has consistently shown a response on the scarred coronet band area. 

One vet said soft tissue damage and use soft shoes. One vet thinks her lameness on her RF is permanent nerve damage and suggested a neurectomy. The latest vet from the hospital said if no improvement then maybe shoes. None of them have mentioned the trim or the "tip" on her coffin bone. 
--
Karen Wellner
OKC
2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Bailey%20Case%20History%20KW


Re: Conflicting information on peripheral loading

Kirsten Rasmussen
 
Edited

Hi Anna,

You are going to have opposing viewpoints, unfortunately, and I suggest following the one that makes the most sense to you.  If something feels wrong to you, trust yourself.  Your laminitis trimmer/farrier might be an expert but his methods are not what we have seen here at ECIR to work long-term.  Frequent trims, removing walls from load-bearing and supporting from below with pads and boots is what we think will give your horse their best chance at recovery.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album


Re: How many hours is safe to go between "meals"

 

Thank you Kirsten. This is most helpful. I am still working out different combinations of double hay nets and now am going down every 30 min to check to see how long it takes her to finish. This last trip 30 min later she still had about half left in her net. I left a message with Hay Chix to see if there mini feeder will hold at least 3lbs as everything seems to be measured in "flakes" and I pull off of round bales. The testing day should be easy then if I am going by when she starts and not when she has finished. 

Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.


--
Nancy and Akira
3/20/2018  Burkesville KY

Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Akira


Re: How many hours is safe to go between "meals"

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Nancy,

Well the issue wasn't that you weren't uploading them but you were not uploading them into your folder (https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Akira) but into the main folder.  I moved the one from today into your folder and deleted the older versions to keep things tidy.

One mystery solved!




Re: How many hours is safe to go between "meals"

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Nancy,

From a safety perspective you might want to consider a Best Friends type muzzle: https://bestfriendequine.com/products/best-friend-deluxe-horse-grazing-muzzle and try putting it on her in her stall where she can work on the hay nets with it on.  Rubbing on things to try to get a muzzle off is pretty common but they really can live with them on and the breakaway on the Best Friends will work. :-)




Re: How many hours is safe to go between "meals"

 

Sherry I revised her case history form and put today's date on it....Let me know if it worked. I added her info on her diet and her exercise at the bottom where there is a comment section as I forgot that section was even there. So the new form reflects her daytime hay weighed out and double netted along with her exercise being ramped up. Thanks again. I thought this was the easy part lol but apparently I am not as tech savvy as I thought!

Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.


--
Nancy and Akira
3/20/2018  Burkesville KY

Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Akira


Re: Saraphina insulin test results

Sherry Morse
 

Cyndi,

For sole pictures you only need to have her rest her hoof up on the toe (like you did here: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/photo/266150/3273079?p=Taken,,,20,1,20,0) if that's the most she's comfortable with.  For the other shots trying to get more of the cannon bone in is helpful as it gives an overall view of how the hoof lines up with the entire leg.  I use my phone to do pictures and I do put it on the floor several feet back from the horse to do the pictures and I'll do one foot and then check all the pictures and delete the ones that don't have good lighting or are blurry.  It sounds relatively easy to do when you read the directions, but as you already know, it takes quite a bit of time to get the right shots.  Don't get too frustrated, we've all been there - and then there's the part where you find out you completely forgot a foot or certain views of one foot and you have to do the whole thing again.




Re: PHYTOQUENCH and Devil's Claw

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Linda,

The answer is 'it depends'.  If you're looking for a product to give her to hep when the farrier is there I would consider a one off NSAID administration (ie: bute) administered prior to the visit along with support wraps while she's being trimmed.  If you're looking for something long term I'd be much more comfortable with the Phyto-quench with Devil's Claw than a NSAID.  That would be for any horse, not just an IR/PPID one.  Other options would be a round of Adequan, Pentosan or hyaluronate.  Some people are using PEA with good results - if you do a search in the messages you can probably find info on that.




Re: How many hours is safe to go between "meals"

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

How do I do the feedings on testing day knowing she will have food inhaled in 30 min then another 3hrs of "fasting" before the next "meal"?
3 hours is not long enough to cause fasting.  As long as she starts her meal at least 4 hours before the vet arrives, it doesn't matter when she finishes it.  You could also, on vet day, give her 2x as much in the am.  I know my horse will be sedated when the vet is here and he won't eat his "noon" meal because he'll still be dopey, so I give it to him early with his breakfast.

Don't stress too much about her meals being finished quickly during the day, as long as you set out the next meal within 6 hours of the first, which it sounds like you can do most days.  Slowing her down is good with hay nets and muzzles is good, but if you just can't slow her down then spacing her feedings is key.  Overnight is harder, unless you only need 6 hrs of sleep!   I feed 2/3 of the daily hay overnight.  If she's stalled it might not be possible, but there are ways to set up a timer for feeding (also helpful for days when you are not at home).  As Bonnie said, too, making a second overnight hay net harder to eat by double-netting does help, or perhaps using a muzzle overnight.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album


Re: Saraphina insulin test results

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Cyndi,

I know it's difficult to get access to her feet right now, but would it be possible for you to measure the depth of both collateral grooves in each foot at their deepest point? That would provide more info on where to go from here.Just run a hoof pick from front to back to find where it's the deepest. Let her rest. Then pick up the foot again and do the measuring. Repeat for each groove. You can use a nail to measure and just mark on it with a marker, then actually measure it afterward.
 
--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


Re: How many hours is safe to go between "meals"

 

Thank you. I will try again. I do have an updated one from July 2021 but I revised it again at the end of July. 

Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.


--
Nancy and Akira
3/20/2018  Burkesville KY

Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Akira


Re: How many hours is safe to go between "meals"

 

I tried her on the greenguard muzzle this morning but it didn't work. Not only did it catch on the holes but she couldn't get any hay out. I can try and purchase a different type muzzle but I do fear she will get hung up as there are too many places in her turnout she can catch it on. Between latches and round pen panels it is pretty much not if she gets caught up but how soon. Her 1" nets are double bagged. What are your thoughts on one of hay balls they make that they can roll around? 

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--
Nancy and Akira
3/20/2018  Burkesville KY

Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Akira


Re: How many hours is safe to go between "meals"

 

She has had 1" nibble nets for years and they are double netted. She can unfortunately manage quite easily on them because she was raised on them in her stall at night. I double bagged them when she was 4 and she was confirmed IR. I had suspicions as early as 2. When she was on the round bale I had customized the 1" nets with 1/2" holes along the top and about a quarter down the sides with a sports net we bought and sewed on to an existing 1" hole net by Hay Burner. 

Sent with ProtonMail Secure Email.


--
Nancy and Akira
3/20/2018  Burkesville KY

Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Akira


PHYTOQUENCH and Devil's Claw

Starshine Ranch
 

I was reading in someone else's post where Phytoquench and Devil's Claw was mentioned to use instead of Equioxx.  I just started Midnight on one tab of Equioxx for two weeks and then to reduce to 1/2 tab after that.  I am concerned about Nsaids.  She has joint stifness in her hocks and has a very hard time keeping her feet up for the trimmer but otherwise moves fine on the trail and is not lame at all.  Would she benefit if I switched?
Awaiting new test results from blood drawn on Monday last and will post as soon as I get them... with fingers crossed!
--
Linda in CA  2020  Midnight and Ostara
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Linda%20Midnight%20OStara


Re: Bailey chronic RF lameness

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Karen,

You mention that Bailey had damage done to her RF hoof back in 1999 - would you please explain what that was.

Thanks.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


Re: Saraphina insulin test results

 

Can you add shots of the hinds? At least lateral and dorsal shots if she can’t hold her feet up? After you post those, please start a new topic and request hoof mark-ups from Lavinia. 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/post

--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse and Diamond Case History Folder                
Cayuse Photos                Diamond Photos


Re: Bailey chronic RF lameness

Lorna Cane
 

Hi Karen,

Another good carrier for minerals is soy hull pellets. They just need to be moistened, not R/S/R.
Most horses like these,IME.


--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


Now: ECIR Group Policy - 08/02/2021 #cal-notice

main@ECIR.groups.io Calendar <noreply@...>
 

ECIR Group Policy

When:
08/02/2021

View Event

Description:

Accuracy of Information

We take the importance of accurate information very seriously. The information in our posts and case histories is of tremendous value to all our members and is also used for formal studies. It is extremely important that it be factual. To protect the integrity and veracity of the group's data, a member may be asked at times to produce documentation, such as a copy of a report. These requests will be rare. Most of you will never receive one. 

 

Solicitation is Against the ECIR Group's Policy:

Whether directly selling a product or service or not, if you are contacted privately by someone, be suspicious. These communications frequently target new members or those in a crisis.  They almost universally push a position, product or service that the sender knows will not be upheld under close examination.

 

We welcome questions, suggestions and individual experiences from every member, but the bottom line is the welfare of the horse. ECIR Group approval is always based on provable facts and scientific methods, not opinions and belief.

 

Anyone who tries to bypass being challenged to support their position with properly assembled facts by sending unsolicited private e-mails rather than posting in the messages is, in our opinion, risking the welfare of horses and will be banned.

 

If you receive an unsolicited e-mail either ask the group about it, or forward the mail to main+owner@ECIR.groups.io 

Thank you for your cooperation.

 

The Owners and Support Team of the ECIR Group

 


Re: Saraphina insulin test results

CYNDI CARLSON
 

I got the best pictures I could get, it took us a hour just to get the ones I posted. She’s too sore to hold her foot up even with two people and that was in shavings leaving opposite boot on but thank you
--
Cyndi Carlson in Colorado 2021

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