Scooter lives in a large boarding barn.  I have tried to get them to weigh hay but they just eyeball the amounts and I eyeball it as well.I have been matching the hay amount to his desired weight which is 1200 lbs and his exercise level as well.  He is getting free choice timothy hay and his current weight is 1193 lbs. (There is no 25 lbs of hay listing in his case history because I have never known what the weight is).  He is eating his free choice timothy hay plus two meals of 1 qt of timothy cubes (not balance cubes) mixed with 1 qt of beet pulp soaked.  His morning meal is the carrier for his AminoTrace+ and other supplements.
Evidence of abscesses in his feet for the last 2 weeks:  There can be a noticeable pulse on either the lateral or median side of each front hoof. Sometimes one front hoof or both. The abscesses seem to be breaking out of his front feet frogs/heel areas.  He has been absolutely fine since his April 2021 testing and before that as well.  it seems a strange coincidence that hoof abscess coincide with the ACTH rise. My farrier came on July 29  and did his regular trim and I had asked him to check for any abnormality and there were none. It was at this time that he had general hoof soreness but on this day he was sound. I was thinking of doing more blood sample testing at this time but it usually takes 3 to 4 weeks before I get the results. I will try and upload recent hoof pictures and body pictures.  Any help would be appreciated.
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Rhonda Turley
Brampton, Ontario
April 2020
Scooter and Rhonda     
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=258159

Yes, Madalyn you are registered.

You should have confirmations in your inbox as well as more information.
The digital program handout was also sent to the registered attendees we had on file as of this morning.


--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2020-2021
Join us at the 2021 NO Laminitis! Conference, August 13-15, ECIR Virtual Conference Room

He was tested in April 2021 and the results are in his case history. The insulin number was high (384Pmol/L) and this was discussed in this group when I received the results.  (ACTH=4.9 Pmol/L) ( Glucose=5.1 Mmol/L). The blood draw was done at 6:00 PM.  Scooter is in a large boarding barn and I had asked to feed him hay for 4 hrs previous but obviously something went wrong. He was out in his dry lot.
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Rhonda Turley
Brampton, Ontario
April 2020
Scooter and Rhonda     
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=258159

Hi Cheri,
Thank you again for all this info.  I have decided to keep her on the Equioxx (since I already have it) and reduce to 1/2 pill/day after the intital 2 weeks, for about another month and then I will switch to the Phytoquench or straight Devil's claw w/ the beet root powder as you suggested.  I figure if I get her started on the Equioxx, then the transition might be smoother to the other and if the Phyto or straight Devil's claw isn't effective for her, I can go back to Equioxx... but hopefully not!
You were a great help and you give me hope that I can control her joint pain without an Nsaid.
Thank you, again,
Linda
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Linda in CA  2020  Midnight and Ostara
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Linda%20Midnight%20OStara

Shades of Theranos maybe? Seems like marketing a machine before its testing capabilities has been verified has a unsavory recent history. In the case of Theranos there  were all manner of reputable investors and clients and they were all bilked.
--
Janet 
East Bay Northern CA
Joined 2019

Hi Lisa,

He might prefer the magnesium pellets in powdered form?
Try putting them through a coffee grinder.

--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php

Hi, Jennifer. Please read the information. You'll see that you'd probably never know without blood tests that include a lipid panel or at least triglycerides. I keep reading that you're focused on weight loss. You can't rush it.  ECIR diet recommendations were listed in the initial greeting you got here. https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/266280  Keep working to get the whole diet right. Don't just cut back on carrots. Eliminate them. There are plenty of safe treats (check the Files), including from Uckele https://uckele.com/equi-treats-apple-pie-4lb.html  and from Nuzu Stabul 1 https://www.chewy.com/stabul-nuggets-molasses-free/dp/227253 . And keep up the exercise. It's really good for him. 
--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse and Diamond Case History Folder                
Cayuse Photos               

The Deluxe Best Friend Grazing Muzzle is sold out and I reached out to the company to see when they expected stock to be available. She said the next order coming in will fill backorders so their best estimate for new orders is October. My question is....is their an alternate that folks think is as good and safe? Or should I take a deep breath and wait until October. We are 6 days into weighing out her meals hanging 3lbs of hay in double nets with 1" holes every 3 hours 4 times during the day and then 8lbs in her stall at night.  Some days that 3lbs goes a little longer at some meals than others. Some mornings she acts like I forgot to feed her the night before but for the most part it seems to be going better than anticipated. She just gets through the "meals" in about an hour or less.

Thank you,

Nancy and Akira
3/20/2018  Burkesville KY

Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Akira

--
Nancy and Akira
3/20/2018  Burkesville KY

Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Akira

Hi Rhonda,

In looking at Scooter's bloodwork from April his insulin was elevated and it looks like he was being fed either free choice hay or 25lbs of hay a day AND 2 quarts of timothy balance cubes a day.  IF he is eating 25lbs of hay plus 2 quarts of cubes (which are meant to be fed at a 3:4 ratio as a hay replacement, measured in pounds) - he's eating more than he should be for his ideal weight.  If he's eating free choice hay he could also be eating more than he needs and both of those scenarios could cause his insulin to remain elevated in the danger zone of laminitis.

Have you actually seen evidence of abscesses in his feet?  If not, I would be concerned about laminitis due to elevated insulin at this point and I would look at getting his diet tighter. 

If you could add current trim pictures and a body picture to Scooter's album that would be helpful for us to help you.

While I'm thinking of it - could you please update your signature with the link to Scooter's photo album?  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=258159

To do that:

1) Go to this link to amend your auto-signature: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/editsub
2) Look at the bottom of that page for the window with your current signature and click your cursor to the line under your case history link
3) Paste the link to your photo album in that line.  You may need to hit the space bar or the return key to make the link blue (live)

4) IMPORTANT: Scroll to the bottom and hit SAVE

--

Thanks,
Sherry and Scutch (and Scarlet over the bridge)
EC Primary Response

PA 2014

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sherry%20and%20Scutch_Scarlet/Scutch%20Case%20History.pdf

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78891

Difficult to answer your question since your case history isn't up to date but if breakfast and dinner are the same size, he's not in starvation mode. Need the DE on your hay analysis to be more precise. Removing treats will never push them into starvation mode. I think I can see a difference from 2018, certainly better toned, but he's still a 6 to 6.5 BCS.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001

Nancy,

Hi Sherry,

Thank you! I have been treating with Ulcergard since the end of june and he was on an all forage diet up until just recently when I had to mix in some Triple Crown senior just to get meds into him. He's a challenge this one!!! I just started Magnesium pellets and now he won't eat his feed if those are in it! I'm exhausted trying to help him! He is on equioxx but I can take him off it and see if that helps at all.

Thank you so much for your info and ideas. Its just so odd that before he coliced he was living very healthy with absolutely no issues while being on a commercial grain etc but its just been since he coliced that he's having issues.
--
Lisa H in NH, 2021

Hi Rhonda,

His insulin and ACTH results were very high last year.
I don't see any test results for this year.
Have you tested him recently? If so,can you put the results in his case history?

He's living in his dry lot, yes?


--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php

For the last 2 weeks Scooter has been suffering from hoof abscesses in both front feet. Sometimes both, sometimes just one. They seem to come and go in varying degrees. Nothing has changed in his diet. I have had to stop exercising him for the last two weeks but he is still living outside 24/7. Can the cause be PPID? Can I increase his Prascend dosage? Currently getting 1 mg once per day.
--
Rhonda Turley
Brampton, Ontario
April 2020
Scooter and Rhonda     

Hi Bill,
The hay I buy locally in northern Vermont is mostly grass with some Timothy.  The farmer is mostly a dairy guy so I needed to get him to cut it for me early in the morning.  He seems to remember that from year to year.  I very rarely need to soak it and the balancing is very easy.  

But don’t everyone rush to Vermont for your hay now!
--

Good to know. I have removed Purina enrich from his diet and he’s on the mineral forage based diet now. Waiting for hay analysis results.  

We REALLY cut back on carrots and I bought him “safe” treats that I try to feed much more sparingly (this part is still hard for me since when I got him he had a lot of fear and PTSD; food seemed to be the best pathway to gaining g trust and we both developed some bad habits. I for sure should have tried clicker training). He does also get his hay soaked but we didn’t cut back on the actual amount that he eats, just started weighing it to make sure we’re consistent. Hopefully all these changes haven’t made his body register starvation. He certainly has lost some weight,  but he hasn’t had any of the weight “fall off” by any stretch. Since he hasn’t foundered, we’ve been able to keep him in full work. I had noticed he was a acting little sluggish when being ridden and it was recommended that I add flax to his food. He does seem much more like himself now; still less edgy but more peppy.  

How would I know if his body is in starvation mode? Are there signs I could look for?   

--
J.Green 
MA, USA
2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Fergus%20Case%20History
CaseHistory@ECIR.groups.io | Album