Date   

Re: Need Advice On Evaluating Relevante's Numbers-Hay Analysis

Deb Walker
 

I've only been doing a quick scan of posts as of late...but saw this and wanted to express my get well wishes for your broken leg. So sorry and hope that healing is quick.

Since I am always watching for crest changes as well, I can detect a difference from the earlier pic to the latest one as well. Something I started doing many years ago is using a regular inch measuring tape and measuring the base of Scotty's neck, and the middle, to keep track. Like using a weight tape, it's hit and miss a bit in determining that you are measuring the exact same spots, but overall, it has given me a picture of going up, down, or maintaining.
--
Deb and Scotty I/R, PPID
Pecatonica Illinois, May 13, 2019
Case History:
 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Deb%20and%20Scotty
Photos:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=90619


Re: Need to help a friend in crisis. How can I add a case history for her? Can a moderator please assist with this quesiton?

Candice Piraino
 

Hello Mary and Jessica,

Welcome to the group! You will find the below information to help you with uploading the case history, which will help us better assist you and the horse.

The ECIR Group provides the best, most up to date information on Cushing's (PPID) and Equine Metabolic Syndrome (EMS)/Insulin Resistance (IR). Please explore our website where you'll find tons of great information that will help you to quickly understand the main things you need to know to start helping your horse. Also open any of the links below (in blue font) for more information/instructions that will save you time.

Have you started your Case History? If you haven't done so yet, please join our case history sub-group. We appreciate you following the uploading instructions so your folder is properly set up with the documents inside. Go to this CH message with info on how to use various devices and forms. If you have any trouble, just post a message to let us know where you are stuck.

Orienting information, such as how the different ECIR sections relate to each other, message etiquettewhat goes where and many how-to pages are in the Wiki. There is also an FAQs on our website that will help answer the most common and important questions new members have. 

Below is a general summary of our DDT/E philosophy which is short for Diagnosis, Diet, Trim and Exercise.

 

DIAGNOSIS: There are two conditions dealt with here: Cushings (PPID) and Equine Metabolic Syndrome (EMS)/Insulin Resistance (IR). These are two separate issues that share some overlapping symptoms. An equine may be either PPID or EMS/IR, neither or both. While increasing age is the greatest risk factor for developing PPID, IR can appear at any age and may have a genetic component. Blood work is used for diagnosis as well as monitoring the level of control of each.

PPID is diagnosed using the Endogenous ACTH test, while EMS/IR is diagnosed by testing non-fasting insulin and glucose.

The fat-derived hormone leptin is also usually abnormally elevated in insulin resistance but because there are many other things which can lower or increase leptin ECIR is not recommending routine testing for this hormone. Leptin is the hormone that says "stop eating".

In Europe, adiponectin is tested instead of leptin. Adiponectin helps regulate glucose and fat burning, and maintain insulin sensitivity. Low levels are associated with EMS. It has come to be preferred over leptin because it is not influenced by things like weight or exercise, and also because it was the only factor other than insulin levels that predicted laminitis risk

*Before calling your vet to draw blood for tests, we suggest saving time and wasted money by reading these details and then sharing them with your vet so that everyone is on the same page regarding correct testing and protocols.

*Please remember to request copies of the results of all the tests done rather than just relying on verbal information. Your vet should be able to email these to you. If you have previous test results, please include those as well. All should go in your CH, but if you are having any trouble with the CH, just post in the messages for now. 

Treatment: EMS is a metabolic type - not a disease - that is managed with a low sugar+starch diet and exercise (as able). The super-efficient easy keeper type breeds such as minis, ponies, Morgans, Arabs, Rockies are some of the classic examples. PPID is a progressive disease that is treated with the medication pergolide. Some, but not all, individuals may experience a temporary loss of appetite, lethargy and/or depression when first starting the medication. To avoid this "pergolide veil" (scroll down for side effects), we recommend weaning onto the drug slowly and the use of the product APF. The best long term results are seen when the ACTH is maintained in the middle of the normal range at all times, including during the annual seasonal rise. To accomplish this, the amount of medication may need to increase over time. Neither condition is ever "cured", only properly controlled for the remainder of the equine's life. If your partner is both PPID and IR then both medication and diet management will be needed. 

DIET: Almost all commercial feeds are not suitable - no matter what it says on the bag. Please see the International Safe Feeds List for the safest suggestions.

No hay is "safe" until proven so by chemical analysis. The diet that works for IR is:

  • low carb (less than 10% sugar+starch)
  • low fat (4% or less) 
  • mineral balanced  

We use grass hay, tested to be under 10% ESC + starch, with minerals added to balance the excesses and deficiencies in the hay, plus salt, and to replace the fragile ingredients that are lost when grass is cured into hay, we add ground flax seed and Vitamin E. This diet is crucial for an EMS/IR horse, but also supports the delicate immune system of a PPID horse. 

*Until you can get your hay tested and balanced we recommend that you soak your hay and use the emergency diet (scroll down for it).  The emergency diet is not intended for long term use, but addresses some of the most common major deficiencies. Testing your hay and getting the minerals balanced to its excesses and deficiencies is the best way to feed any equine (look under the Hay Balancing file if you want professional help balancing). If you absolutely cannot test your hay and balance the minerals to it, or would like to use a "stop gap" product until you get your hay balanced, here's a list of "acceptable" ration balancers

There is a lot of helpful information in the start here folder so it is important you read all the documents found there. The emergency diet involves soaking your untested hay for an hour in cold water or 30 minutes in hot water. This removes up to 30% of the sugar content, but no starch. Starch is worse than sugar since it converts 100% to glucose while sugar only converts 50%, so starch causes a bigger insulin spike. Make sure you dump the soaking water where the equine(s) can't get to it. 

What you don't feed on the EMS/IR diet is every bit as, if not more important than, what you do feed! No grass. No grain. No sugary treats, including apples and carrots. No brown/red salt blocks which contain iron (and sometimes molasses) which interferes with mineral balancing, so white salt blocks only. 

No products containing molasses. No bagged feeds with a combined sugar and starch of over 10% or starch over about 4%, or fat over about 4%. Unfortunately, even bagged feeds that say they are designed for IR and/or PPID equines are usually too high in sugar, starch and/or fat. It’s really important to know the actual analysis and not be fooled by a name that says it is suitable for EMS/IR individuals.

We do not recommend feeding alfalfa hay to EMS/IR equines as it makes many of them laminitic. Although it tends to be low in sugar, many times the starch is higher and does not soak out. Additionally, protein and calcium are quite high, which can contribute to sore footedness and make mineral balancing very difficult.

TRIM: A proper trim is toes backed and heels lowered so that the hoof capsule closely hugs and supports the internal structures of the foot. Though important for all equines, it's essential for IR and/or PPID equines to have a proper trim in place since they are at increased risk for laminitis. After any potential triggers are removed from the diet, and in PPID individuals, the ACTH is under control, the realigning trim is often the missing link in getting a laminitic equine comfortable. In general, laminitic hooves require more frequent trim adjustments to maintain the proper alignment so we recommend the use of padded boots rather than fixed appliances (i.e. shoes, clogs), at least during the initial phases of treatment.

Sometimes subclinical laminitis can be misdiagnosed as arthritis, navicular, or a host of other problems as the animal attempts to compensate for sore feet. 

You are encouraged to make an album and post hoof pictures and any radiographs you might have so we can to look to see if you have an optimal trim in place. Read this section of the wiki for how to get a hoof evaluation, what photos are needed, and how to get the best hoof shots and radiographs.

EXERCISEThe best IR buster there is, but only if the equine is comfortable and non-laminitic. An individual that has had laminitis needs 6-9 months of correct realigning trims before any serious exercise can begin. Once the equine is moving around comfortably at liberty, hand walking can begin in long straight lines with no tight turns. Do not force a laminitic individual to move, or allow its other companions to do so. It will begin to move once the pain begins to subside. Resting its fragile feet is needed for healing to take place so if the animal wants to lay down, do not encourage it to get up. Place feed and water where it can be reached easily without having to move any more than necessary. Be extremely careful about movement while using NSAIDs (bute, banamine, previcox, etc.) as it masks pain and encourages more movement than these fragile feet are actually able to withstand. Additionally, NSAIDs (and icing) do not work on metabolic laminitis and long term NSAID use interferes with healing. Therefore, we recommend tapering off NSAIDs after the first week or so of use. If after a week's time your equine's comfort level has not increased, then the cause of the laminitis has not been removed and keeping up the NSAIDs isn't the answer - you need to address the underlying cause.

 

There is lots more information in our files and archived messages and also on our website. It is a lot of information, so take some time to go over it and feel free to ask any questions. If you are feeling overwhelmed, don't worry, you will catch on, and we are always here to help you! Once you have your case history uploaded, we can help you help your equine partner even better.

For members outside North America, there are country specific folders in the files and many international lists in the wiki to help you find local resources.

If you have any technical difficulties, please let us know so we can help you. 

--

Candice Piraino

Primary Response Team

September 2018, Summerfield, FL

Shark's Case History

Shark's Photo Album 

PHCP Barefoot Trimmer @www.arkhavenfarm.com

 


Re: Hay test

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Hi Tina,

Oops, I should have checked.  The 600 Fast Track does not provide the mineral profile, so unless you call the lab and ask them to upgrade it to the (601) Equi-Tech package, this hay cannot be balanced.  At 12.4% protein, I'd be surprised if you need to add the TC 30% protein supplement.

ECIR does not recommend either the 600 or 601 packages because the ESC and starch are done by a very inaccurate method.  It would be better for you to choose the 644 Carb package (if you are only interested in ESC and starch), or the 603 Trainer package (if you want minerals, carbs, and other basics like protein and digestible energy) in the future.  Or have your current sample upgraded to one of these packages.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album


Re: Hoof abscesses in front hooves

Lorna Cane
 

Rhonda, do you mean that IDEXX does in-house insulin testing, in Ontario?


--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


Re: Need to help a friend in crisis. How can I add a case history for her? Can a moderator please assist with this quesiton?

Mary Gokey
 

Dear Dr. Kellon and moderators:
I have been a member of this group since 2016, and have found it invaluable. A friend has joined ECIR, but needs help getting her case history and xrays uploaded. I have a copy of her case history, since I helped her complete it. I would love it some help if someone in the group could upload it into her account. Her name is Jessica Gunderson

jr_gundersonn@... is her email. Her horse has been in crisis really since April 1, 2021, and they have tried almost everything. I was hoping Dr. Kellon could look at the information for Jessica and her horse Kahn who is close to being euthanized. Please get back to me as soon as you can! Thank you!


Re: Hay test

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Hi Tina,

In reference to your last post (https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/267584) I would suggest you contact a hay balancer to determine what you need to supplement to feed the orchard grass, and if your current supplements are meeting your horse's needs.  It is money well spent (unless you are almost done with this hay's supply).  Here is the list of approved hay balancers:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/6%20Diet%20Balancing/HAY%20BALANCING-1.pdf

Could you please add this link to your Case History folder to your signature please, so others can find it?
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Tina%20and%20Griffin

I took a quick look at Griffin's case history.  I'm glad you are soaking his orchard grass hay as it is a little high in ESC + starch.  Even with soaking it though his insulin is still higher than we'd like to see it, at least as of Jun 10.  I would remove the Triple Crown balancer (if you get your hay balanced, you will be given details on what to feed instead that will be safe to feed an EMS horse and better meet his nutritional needs).  For the loose stools, try increasing his pre-biotic fibre by adding mollasses-free beet pulp (rinsed, soaked until soft, then rinsed clean again), pure psyllium husk, or ground flaxseed.  You can also add a high quality pro-biotic; Forco, Uckele, and Mad Barn all have good pro-biotic options.

Once he has been on 1mg pergolide for at least 3 weeks, it would be a good idea to re-test his baseline ACTH to make sure 1 mg pergolide has brought it into a safe range (no need to do the TRH stim now, his baseline ACTH was already abnormal and it can be used to monitor him going forward).

Do you have any other questions?

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album


Re: Hoof abscesses in front hooves

Lorna Cane
 

"For some reason the April 19, 2021 results do not show up as everyone tells me this but they are in the case history. "

Rhonda, they are in his Bloodwork folder, not Case history . Take a peek to see the difference.
There is a place for his bloodwork in his Case History,into which you have entered some results,but not those you reference above.

It's great for the volunteers to be able to view all the results in one place,in order to help Scooter appropriately,without having to go back and forth from folder to folder.
The sooner you can update his case history the better.....before you get the new blood results back,even.

My bet is on success at  finding a solution to help Scooter. But the devil is in the details.....the more details the better,in order to get this nailed down.

--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


Re: Hoof abscesses in front hooves

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Hi Ronda,

After your vet visit and blood pull on Friday, I would start titrating up his pergolide right away, in anticipation of having to increase it.  If the results come back next week within range, you can always drop it back down then.  Do you see a correlation with abscessing beginning or worsening in the late summer to autumn?

As Dr Kellon said, a stretched whiteline is an opportunity for bacteria to get into the hoof and cause abscesses.  The only way you can really resolve that is to find a way to get his insulin under better control so his whiteline isn't stretched anymore.  I totally understand dietary interventions are difficult in large boarding barns, but if you could arrange to have the hay soaked it would make a big difference for Scooter.  He will grow healthier hooves with better lamellar connection.

However, ongoing abscesses do also strongly suggest ongoing trim issues.  Definitely feel free to post your rads AND a current round of hoof photos (preferably taken the day of the rads before trim changes are made) if you'd like feedback.  Its not always easy to hear, but it could be the source or a significant contributor to Scooter's problems.  Instructions on taking, posting and labelling hoof photos correctly are here:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/wiki#Photos-and-Hoof-Evaluation-Help

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album


Re: Ground Flax Seed vs. Chia Seeds

Lorna Cane
 

Kathy , my reason is price. Chia are way more money where I am.

--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


Hay test

Tina Bachmann
 

Hay test on orchard grass was done 5/24/2021. 

ESC was 10.2 and starch .4. Crude protein was 12.4
This was the Fast track 600 test
--
Tina Bachmann in VA 2021


Re: Hoof abscesses in front hooves

Trisha DePietro
 

Hi Rhonda. I'm following along here, interested in your horses abscesses- is Scooter wearing shoes? What is the nature of the material that is draining from the abscess areas? Is it thick or thin? Does it have a particular color to it? Does it have an odor? What is the odor you smell? Fish smell, or other descriptor? It would be good too if you could add some solar hoof shots of the areas that you are seeing the abscess drain tracks. 

Also, to get the best hoof xrays- you might find it helpful to review this link...

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/wiki/1571--  

Trisha DePietro
Aug 2018
NH
Dolly and Hope's Case Histories
Dolly's Photos 
Hope's Photos 
Primary Responder


Re: Hay testing

Tina Bachmann
 

Thanks Bonnie and Sherry fir getting back to me. I have not found new hay to test yet so I am going to ask you to look at what I am feeding now to see if I need to add any supplements. The test I did on this orchard grass was the 600 fast track and I am soaking  6lbs twice a day. He also gets TC 30% balancer  1 cup twice a day. 1 lb of TC low starch forage 2 times a day while waiting for hay to soak. And then I give him 1 lb of standlee compressed orchard grass 2 times a day because he has such long stretches without anything to eat. He is eating hay from nibble met. I have not figured out how to put photos in my file so I will try here. I am going out of the country mid September and would like to have a plan before. Can I send hay results and picture of Griffin to you somehow?  Thanks
--
Tina Bachmann in VA 2021


Re: Hoof abscesses in front hooves

Rhonda Turley
 

I have two choices for labs.  Idexx or University of Guelph Animal Lab.  I know Dr. Kellon prefers the University of Guelph  lab so that is where I have been sending it but it is very slow and I have found out talking to one of their techs, that they do not even do the metabolic testing.  They send it out once a month to an outside lab, so that is why it takes so long. So I will use Idexx for Friday's testing. which is faster and cheaper.
--
Rhonda Turley
Brampton, Ontario
April 2020
Scooter and Rhonda     
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=258159


Re: Hoof abscesses in front hooves

Rhonda Turley
 

For some reason the April 19, 2021 results do not show up as everyone tells me this but they are in the case history.  There are actual physical indications of hoof abscesses.  Changes in medial and lateral hoof pulses are evident at times.  Painful on left hoof or right hoof or both.  I see changes in the frog/heel areas where an abscess has exited. He has been perfectly sound and in dressage training  and doing extremely well until hoof abscesses showed up over 2 weeks ago.  I was wondering if it is a coincidence that abscesses and the seasonal rise are together or are they separate.  Does he need more Prascend for example?  My vet is coming on Friday to collect blood samples for metabolic testing plus xrays.  The samples will be sent to Idexx for a quick response.  I will update his case history at that time. Hopefully a solution for Scooter can be found. Thanks for your assistance!
--
Rhonda Turley
Brampton, Ontario
April 2020
Scooter and Rhonda     
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=258159


Re: Ground Flax Seed vs. Chia Seeds

Candice Piraino
 
Edited

Hi Kathy!

Welcome to the group! Both chia and flax are fabulous in regards to the Omega 3:6 ratio! Some horses may not tolerate Flax, so Chia would be a great substitute. If you use the search button you can see a lot of posts about flax seed. Flax is also more affordable usually. You can see some differences in the numbers here: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/5%20Core%20Diet/Omega%203%20and%20Omega%206/FlaxBOSSpeasCHIAhemp.pdf

Also, You can see some more important numbers broken down within this post here: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/topic/iron_in_chia_seeds/84782815?p=,,,50,0,0,0::recentpostdate%2Fsticky,,,50,2,0,84782815


The ECIR Group provides the best, most up to date information on Cushing's (PPID) and Equine Metabolic Syndrome (EMS)/Insulin Resistance (IR). Please explore our website where you'll find tons of great information that will help you to quickly understand the main things you need to know to start helping your horse. Also open any of the links below (in blue font) for more information/instructions that will save you time.

Have you started your Case History? If you haven't done so yet, please join our case history sub-group. We appreciate you following the uploading instructions so your folder is properly set up with the documents inside. Go to this CH message with info on how to use various devices and forms. If you have any trouble, just post a message to let us know where you are stuck.

Orienting information, such as how the different ECIR sections relate to each other, message etiquettewhat goes where and many how-to pages are in the Wiki. There is also an FAQs on our website that will help answer the most common and important questions new members have. 

Below is a general summary of our DDT/E philosophy which is short for Diagnosis, Diet, Trim and Exercise.

 

DIAGNOSIS: There are two conditions dealt with here: Cushings (PPID) and Equine Metabolic Syndrome (EMS)/Insulin Resistance (IR). These are two separate issues that share some overlapping symptoms. An equine may be either PPID or EMS/IR, neither or both. While increasing age is the greatest risk factor for developing PPID, IR can appear at any age and may have a genetic component. Blood work is used for diagnosis as well as monitoring the level of control of each.

PPID is diagnosed using the Endogenous ACTH test, while EMS/IR is diagnosed by testing non-fasting insulin and glucose.

The fat-derived hormone leptin is also usually abnormally elevated in insulin resistance but because there are many other things which can lower or increase leptin ECIR is not recommending routine testing for this hormone. Leptin is the hormone that says "stop eating".

In Europe, adiponectin is tested instead of leptin. Adiponectin helps regulate glucose and fat burning, and maintain insulin sensitivity. Low levels are associated with EMS. It has come to be preferred over leptin because it is not influenced by things like weight or exercise, and also because it was the only factor other than insulin levels that predicted laminitis risk

*Before calling your vet to draw blood for tests, we suggest saving time and wasted money by reading these details and then sharing them with your vet so that everyone is on the same page regarding correct testing and protocols.

*Please remember to request copies of the results of all the tests done rather than just relying on verbal information. Your vet should be able to email these to you. If you have previous test results, please include those as well. All should go in your CH, but if you are having any trouble with the CH, just post in the messages for now. 

Treatment: EMS is a metabolic type - not a disease - that is managed with a low sugar+starch diet and exercise (as able). The super-efficient easy keeper type breeds such as minis, ponies, Morgans, Arabs, Rockies are some of the classic examples. PPID is a progressive disease that is treated with the medication pergolide. Some, but not all, individuals may experience a temporary loss of appetite, lethargy and/or depression when first starting the medication. To avoid this "pergolide veil" (scroll down for side effects), we recommend weaning onto the drug slowly and the use of the product APF. The best long term results are seen when the ACTH is maintained in the middle of the normal range at all times, including during the annual seasonal rise. To accomplish this, the amount of medication may need to increase over time. Neither condition is ever "cured", only properly controlled for the remainder of the equine's life. If your partner is both PPID and IR then both medication and diet management will be needed. 

DIET: Almost all commercial feeds are not suitable - no matter what it says on the bag. Please see the International Safe Feeds List for the safest suggestions.

No hay is "safe" until proven so by chemical analysis. The diet that works for IR is:

  • low carb (less than 10% sugar+starch)
  • low fat (4% or less) 
  • mineral balanced  

We use grass hay, tested to be under 10% ESC + starch, with minerals added to balance the excesses and deficiencies in the hay, plus salt, and to replace the fragile ingredients that are lost when grass is cured into hay, we add ground flax seed and Vitamin E. This diet is crucial for an EMS/IR horse, but also supports the delicate immune system of a PPID horse. 

*Until you can get your hay tested and balanced we recommend that you soak your hay and use the emergency diet (scroll down for it).  The emergency diet is not intended for long term use, but addresses some of the most common major deficiencies. Testing your hay and getting the minerals balanced to its excesses and deficiencies is the best way to feed any equine (look under the Hay Balancing file if you want professional help balancing). If you absolutely cannot test your hay and balance the minerals to it, or would like to use a "stop gap" product until you get your hay balanced, here's a list of "acceptable" ration balancers

There is a lot of helpful information in the start here folder so it is important you read all the documents found there. The emergency diet involves soaking your untested hay for an hour in cold water or 30 minutes in hot water. This removes up to 30% of the sugar content, but no starch. Starch is worse than sugar since it converts 100% to glucose while sugar only converts 50%, so starch causes a bigger insulin spike. Make sure you dump the soaking water where the equine(s) can't get to it. 

What you don't feed on the EMS/IR diet is every bit as, if not more important than, what you do feed! No grass. No grain. No sugary treats, including apples and carrots. No brown/red salt blocks which contain iron (and sometimes molasses) which interferes with mineral balancing, so white salt blocks only. 

No products containing molasses. No bagged feeds with a combined sugar and starch of over 10% or starch over about 4%, or fat over about 4%. Unfortunately, even bagged feeds that say they are designed for IR and/or PPID equines are usually too high in sugar, starch and/or fat. It’s really important to know the actual analysis and not be fooled by a name that says it is suitable for EMS/IR individuals.

We do not recommend feeding alfalfa hay to EMS/IR equines as it makes many of them laminitic. Although it tends to be low in sugar, many times the starch is higher and does not soak out. Additionally, protein and calcium are quite high, which can contribute to sore footedness and make mineral balancing very difficult.

TRIM: A proper trim is toes backed and heels lowered so that the hoof capsule closely hugs and supports the internal structures of the foot. Though important for all equines, it's essential for IR and/or PPID equines to have a proper trim in place since they are at increased risk for laminitis. After any potential triggers are removed from the diet, and in PPID individuals, the ACTH is under control, the realigning trim is often the missing link in getting a laminitic equine comfortable. In general, laminitic hooves require more frequent trim adjustments to maintain the proper alignment so we recommend the use of padded boots rather than fixed appliances (i.e. shoes, clogs), at least during the initial phases of treatment.

Sometimes subclinical laminitis can be misdiagnosed as arthritis, navicular, or a host of other problems as the animal attempts to compensate for sore feet. 

You are encouraged to make an album and post hoof pictures and any radiographs you might have so we can to look to see if you have an optimal trim in place. Read this section of the wiki for how to get a hoof evaluation, what photos are needed, and how to get the best hoof shots and radiographs.

EXERCISEThe best IR buster there is, but only if the equine is comfortable and non-laminitic. An individual that has had laminitis needs 6-9 months of correct realigning trims before any serious exercise can begin. Once the equine is moving around comfortably at liberty, hand walking can begin in long straight lines with no tight turns. Do not force a laminitic individual to move, or allow its other companions to do so. It will begin to move once the pain begins to subside. Resting its fragile feet is needed for healing to take place so if the animal wants to lay down, do not encourage it to get up. Place feed and water where it can be reached easily without having to move any more than necessary. Be extremely careful about movement while using NSAIDs (bute, banamine, previcox, etc.) as it masks pain and encourages more movement than these fragile feet are actually able to withstand. Additionally, NSAIDs (and icing) do not work on metabolic laminitis and long term NSAID use interferes with healing. Therefore, we recommend tapering off NSAIDs after the first week or so of use. If after a week's time your equine's comfort level has not increased, then the cause of the laminitis has not been removed and keeping up the NSAIDs isn't the answer - you need to address the underlying cause.

 

There is lots more information in our files and archived messages and also on our website. It is a lot of information, so take some time to go over it and feel free to ask any questions. If you are feeling overwhelmed, don't worry, you will catch on, and we are always here to help you! Once you have your case history uploaded, we can help you help your equine partner even better.

For members outside North America, there are country specific folders in the files and many international lists in the wiki to help you find local resources.

If you have any technical difficulties, please let us know so we can help you. 

--

Candice Piraino

Primary Response Team

September 2018, Summerfield, FL

Shark's Case History

Shark's Photo Album 

PHCP Barefoot Trimmer @www.arkhavenfarm.com

 


Ground Flax Seed vs. Chia Seeds

Kathy Steele
 

Is there a reason to feed ground flax seeds over chia seeds for an EMS mini/pony (she does have laminitis)? I have been researching the two and they seem very similar. I am currently feeding chia seeds, but am willing to switch if flax is better.
 
Thanks in advance!
 
Kathy Steele in Menifee, CA 2021


Re: Hoof abscesses in front hooves

Rhonda Turley
 

I have the vet coming Friday to take blood samples for metabolic testing and x-rays of his front feet. Scooter has been in this same large (33 horse)boarding barn for many years.  The hay changes frequently.  I have been matching his hay amount to his amount of exercise as best as I.  If this were my barn I would weigh everything but it is not and I have to eyeball the amounts of hay.  Up until this current episode of hoof abscesses he was in full training as he was an advanced level dressage horse and doing extremely well so I was going to enter him in dressage class in September.  The extra 10 lbs is muscle.  This was the best he has ever looked.He receives 1 qt of beet pulp and 1 qt of ordinary timothy hay cubes, soaked twice a day.  The soaked beet pulp and timothy cubes are the carrier for his supplements which get mixed in. When I get the results from Scooter's metabolic testing, I will update his case history.
--
Rhonda Turley
Brampton, Ontario
April 2020
Scooter and Rhonda     
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=258159


Re: Iron in Chia Seeds

Sherry Morse
 

Kathleen,

Was this the one chart you were referring to before? https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/5%20Core%20Diet/Omega%203%20and%20Omega%206/FlaxBOSSpeasCHIAhemp.pdf  I know it's a bit old but can't imagine the basic numbers have changed.




Re: Need Advice On Evaluating Relevante's Numbers-Hay Analysis

Lynn
 

Thanks Sherry and Kirsten!

The other thing I'm going to do now that the second cutting has been cut/baled is test it as well. My hay balancer who lives in my area said there was a substantial difference in sugar levels between their first and second cuttings. In the meantime we'll keep soaking while I continue to get my ducks in a row. Thanks again so much for the help/advice.
--
Lynn
Beavercreek, Ohio
March 2018
Relevante Case History
Relevante Photo Album

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Re: Hoof abscesses in front hooves

Rhonda Turley
 

That is why I am switching to Idexx lab to get faster results so a quicker solution for Scooter can be found. The recent past there may be a relationship for Scooter with abscesses and PPID or there may not be. The current abscesses are smallish (I hope) judging from the exits they leave in his frogs and heels.
--
Rhonda Turley
Brampton, Ontario
April 2020
Scooter and Rhonda     
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=258159

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