Date   

Re: Hay Analysis - Fergus

Jennifer Green
 

I should add, Fergus still has weight to loose, so that might be a reason to keep soaking even if the numbers are OK as far as insulin goes.
--
J.Green 
MA, USA
2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Fergus%20Case%20History
CaseHistory@ECIR.groups.io | Album


Hay Analysis - Fergus

Jennifer Green
 

I just added the hay analysis.

First question is, should I keep soaking?

2nd question is, I saw that there are people who you can pay to help me balance.  I'm so swamped with work, I think I may need to wait to take the class until winter.  In the interim, does anyone have any availability to assist now?

Thanks!!
--
J.Green 
MA, USA
2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Fergus%20Case%20History
CaseHistory@ECIR.groups.io | Album


Re: Need to help a friend in crisis. How can I add a case history for her? Can a moderator please assist with this quesiton?

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Jess,

Based on the radiographs Khan started this journey with very thin soles and long toes.  Neither of these conditions have been addressed and they appear to have both gotten worse from April until the most recent set of x-rays.  In addition there appear to be bony changes happening on the tip of the coffin bone.  However, we have seen much worse x-rays and horses can come back from this but it does mean a complete change in trimming philosophy to do that. 

To get the most help for Khan it would really help us if you could create a photo album in the CH subgroup (https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/photos) and then post a full set of current hoof images there. Information on how to get good hoof pictures as well as useful x-rays is here: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/wiki/1482#Photos-and-Hoof-Evaluation-Help

Can you please update your signature with your case history link? https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jessica%20and%20Khan

To do that:

1) Go to this link to amend your auto-signature: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/editsub
2) Look at the bottom of that page for the window where you have your signature. to type in your name, general location, and year of joining.
3) Copy the link to your case history into the line below your location.  You may need to add a space after it or click enter to make the link live (turn it blue)

4) IMPORTANT: Scroll to the bottom and hit SAVE




Re: Need to help a friend in crisis. How can I add a case history for her? Can a moderator please assist with this quesiton?

 
Edited

Hi Jess,
There were no lab standards for the ACTH test.  Was that done at Cornell as well?  I know Khan is quite young to have PPID.  Did the vet have an alternate explanation for the high ACTH?  It would be interesting to see if starting her on pergolide would bring that number down.  

How long have you been soaking her hay?  Has any testing been done since you began soaking?

When you tried metformin, were you syringing it in or adding it to her feed?  The mouth ulcers have been noticed with syringing but not so much when it’s in feed.  The suggestion is to suspend it in Milk of Magnesia.  Here’s a link to a user’s guide to metformin, in case that helps.  Metformin, as you probably know, is our first choice for bringing insulin down.  Her insulin isn’t dangerously high now and might actually be somewhat elevated due to her hoof pain.  She would be much more comfortable with a different trim and padded boots but I’d like to leave that discussion to the hoof pros here.
--

Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Re: Need to help a friend in crisis. How can I add a case history for her? Can a moderator please assist with this quesiton?

 

Here’s a link to Jessica’s and Khan’s case history and radiographs.
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Re: Need to help a friend in crisis. How can I add a case history for her? Can a moderator please assist with this quesiton?

Jessica Gunderson
 

Radiographs and case history have been posted. Please let me know if there is anything else you need from me. 
My primary question that any other question would be dependent on is with the aggressive progression since April 10th over the last 4 months, extreme rotation with solar prolapse (I do not have images) is there a reasonable chance Khan could come back from this or would it be kinder to euthanize?
--
Jessica and Khan
N.D., 2021


Re: Need to help a friend in crisis. How can I add a case history for her? Can a moderator please assist with this quesiton?

debost@...
 

Could I get a copy of that video also?  debost@...
--
Deborah Ostrofsky
Year of joining: 2021
Location: Northwestern Pa


Re: Hoof abscesses in front hooves

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Titrating up, what exactly does this mean and how much do I increase his Prascend dose? 
It means increasing the dose slowly, by 1/4 pill every 3-4 days.  It's impossible to say how much higher it should be without current bloodwork.  But given that PPID is progressive you may need a higher dose now than he started on nearly 1.5 years ago.  Even though ACTH was great in April, that is the time of year when it will be lowest.   But it's the autumn where it can go up very high, very quickly.   We always advise testing it in mid-July to early August because if you need a dose increase you will likely see signs of it then and the dose increase needs to be done early in order to be effective for the seasonal rise.  It takes 3 weeks plus the titrating time before the full effect is seen, meaning if you started now, you'd be at a new dose by early September.  Peak is the 3rd week of September.  After your vet pulls blood on Friday, you could start increasing pergolide, aiming for 1.5 or 2 mg.   If results come back showing ACTH was not abnormally high, then you can reduce the pergolide back to 1mg, and consider other explanations for the ongoing abscessing.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album


Re: Ground Flax Seed vs. Chia Seeds

Lorna Cane
 

Griffin, I buy the whole flax seeds,which have a long shelf life.Then I grind them myself.
This may not be convenient for you,though.

--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


Re: Hoof abscesses in front hooves

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Rhonda,

If you look at the dates on your bloodwork reports Guelph is doing the testing within days of getting the blood so you may want to check with your vet on why it's taking them so long to report back to you.  We do NOT recommend changing labs as you are then comparing different assays and may not be able to accurately compare results for this reason.

Again, I would concentrate on tightening up Scooter's diet and getting his insulin under control and look at what can be done in terms of his trim at this point in time.




Re: Ground Flax Seed vs. Chia Seeds

Griffin Keller
 

I found the best prices on chiaseedsdirect.com.  I tried to switch to ground flax, but goes bad too quickly as I can only get it from the feed store in large bags.... for me chia is just easier :)

--
- Griffin

Jan 2018, Charlottesville, VA

Prophecy Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Griffin%20and%20Prophecy

Prophecy Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=17115


Re: Hoof abscesses in front hooves

Rhonda Turley
 

Thanks for your help.  I do not use this site often enough to understand it so any help is most welcome!
--
Rhonda Turley
Brampton, Ontario
April 2020
Scooter and Rhonda     
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=258159


Re: Hoof abscesses in front hooves

Rhonda Turley
 

Titrating up, what exactly does this mean and how much do I increase his Prascend dose?  Currently he receives 1 mg/day (1 whole pill).

Scooter has been on 1 mg Prascend since late April 2020.  Until this episode of abscesses he has been in advanced level dressage training and was doing exceedingly well to the point I thought he would be able to compete in September. I am wondering if there is a correlation between the rise or not but my instincts tell me there is so that is why I contact ECIR to sort this out.  That being said, yesterday he was completely sound and happily bucked and played around the indoor.  Normally he lives outside 24/7 but I asked that the barn to keep him inside at night starting last Friday.  This was the only change in his routine. I will take some pictures on the same day, of his hooves. Thanks for your help!!
--
Rhonda Turley
Brampton, Ontario
April 2020
Scooter and Rhonda     
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=258159


Re: Hoof abscesses in front hooves

Rhonda Turley
 

Before I found ECIR, in July 2019, my vet sent blood work for ACTH to Idexx and the reading was 8.  Based on this my vet did nothing.  From what I know now, I would have started him on Prascend low dose.
--
Rhonda Turley
Brampton, Ontario
April 2020
Scooter and Rhonda     
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=258159


Re: Need Advice On Evaluating Relevante's Numbers-Hay Analysis

Lynn
 

Hi Deb,
Thanks so much! And thanks for the great tip and for the extra set of eyes to confirm a difference in his crest. I'm hoping we headed this thing off at the pass.
--
Lynn
Beavercreek, Ohio
March 2018
Relevante Case History
Relevante Photo Album

Ω


Re: Hay test

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Tina,

This is an NIR test which means that the ESC and starch amounts could be 20% higher than what's listed and they're already over our recommended levels.  If you can't source another hay I would consider replacing this (in addition to the other high ESC+starch items Griffin is eating) with the Triple Crown Timothy Balance cubes.  Those are fed at a ratio of 3lbs of cubes to 4lbs of hay and are balanced to themselves so you only need to add salt, flax and vitamin E to them.




Re: Hay testing

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Tina,

Can you please update your signature with your case history link?  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Tina%20and%20Griffin

To do that:

1) Go to this link to amend your auto-signature: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/editsub
2) Look at the bottom of that page for the window where you have your signature. to type in your name, general location, and year of joining.
3) Copy the link to your case history into the line below your location.  You may need to add a space after it or click enter to make the link live (turn it blue)

4) IMPORTANT: Scroll to the bottom and hit SAVE!

I don't see any hay test information in that folder.  In order to find out what supplements you need you'll need to contact one of the balancers listed in our files: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/6%20Diet%20Balancing/HAY%20BALANCING-1.pdf for their assistance once you have hay that's been tested.  For general dieting information check all of the folder contents in the files: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/6%20Diet%20Balancing.

Please note that we do not recommend TC 30% as a balancer due to the higher than 10% ESC+starch amounts and TC low starch forage is also not recommended as it's also not guaranteed to be below 10% ESC+starch.  You can replace the TC 30 with rinsed/soaked/rinsed beet pulp or Stabul 1 as a mineral carrier and you can replace the Safe Starch with Triple Crown Naturals Timothy Balance Cubes which IS guaranteed to be under 10% ESC+starch.  You would then need to only balance the hay but not the cubes as each bag is balanced for you.  You do need to add in flax, vitamin E and salt as outlined in the emergency diet though. 

Also, just a reminder but Griffin should not be eating more than 14.5lbs a day TOTAL.  You have him eating 16 lbs of forage in addition to the balancer for a total of 16.5 pounds of day. Given his insulin level his diet needs to be dialed in much more and getting it down to the right amount of intake is an easy first step to take.

To post pictures you first need to create an album named "Tina and Griffin" in the case history photos section: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/photos

Once you've created the album you need to open it and then you can upload pictures from your device.  If you get stuck doing that let us know where you're getting stuck so we can help you.




Re: Need to help a friend in crisis. How can I add a case history for her? Can a moderator please assist with this quesiton?

 

Hello Mary and Jessica,

Thank you, Mary, for bringing Jessica on board.  
Posting a case history involves a few steps but it isn’t hard to do.  If you’ve got the case history put together, you’re most of the way there.  We don’t post case histories for members because that takes away your ownership of the material and adds complications; however, I would be happy to help.  I’ve just finished assembling a video on just that topic to be used at the No Laminitis Conference next weekend.  How about I send you a copy?  It’s only 8 minutes long so not too big a time waster.  If you have problems understanding the steps, you can contact me privately and I’ll try to help.  We can consider it a trial run and hope it’s more helpful than not.  

--

Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Re: New Member(s) Bev & Sariah

spiritwinddesertarabians@...
 

Thank you Sherry, Bonnie, and Martha!
There is much to learn (and to get tested), but the info provided will be a huge help!
I hope to speak with the local Vet today and see what his willingness will be.
--
Bev & Sariah (PPID) from Idaho, 2021
CaseHistory@ECIR.groups.io | Files


Re: Iron in Chia Seeds

 

Good grief - I must be getting too old. I've gone full circle. Next, I will reinvent the wheel!
That's an oldy but goody and hasn't changed. Thanks for reminding me of it!
--

Kathleen (KFG in KCMO)

Director and Research Advisor, ECIR Group Inc.

Missouri, USA, 2005

https://scholar.google.com/citations?hl=en&user=3-I7UI0AAAAJ 

 

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