Date   

Re: Butterscotch I:G ratio #file-notice

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Naomi,


Also, you can use this link to help you do a weight calculation based on measurements: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/Case%20History%20Tools/Tools%20and%20How-To%20Help/Horse%20Weight%20Calculator.xlsx

Just as a quick observation which I didn't mention the other day - you have her estimated current weight at 900lbs.  That's more than my 15h Arabs weigh so she would be extremely obese at that weight, which is not what I see in the pictures you posted. She should be closer to 750lbs or less would be my rough guess for an ideal weight.

Do you still have her on alfalfa mix cubes at this time?  If yes, I would stop those and see if there's any effect on her crest? 




Re: Severe itching from fly? allergies in IR horse

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Sandra,

How old is your horse and how was IR diagnosed?
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Severe itching from fly? allergies in IR horse

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Cindy,

I was referring specifically to the possibility of pinworms.




Re: Butterscotch I:G ratio #file-notice

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

"Middle of normal range" is based on our observations here that once a horse is diagnosed with PPID, they do better if ACTH is not allowed to increase with the seasonal rise.  That is not something your vet would be aware of, and they may disagree strongly because ACTH in healthy horses does go well above that with no negative effects.  Our collective knowledge based on managing 1000s of PPID horses is that they need stricter control for optimal results.  Your vet should already know that ACTH is not the only hormone driving this disease and that it may actually be low while the other hormones are higher, so signs of PPID may still manifest even if ACTH is still at a level through the seasonal rise that would be fine in a normal horse.  However, pergolide treats the cause of the hormonal abnormalities, not just for ACTH but also for the other related hormones.  So tighter control of ACTH via pergolide also helps tightly control the other hormones, which may or may not be more active, depending on the horse.  That is probably why we see a benefit to keeping ACTH low through the seasonal rise, or in other words, at a level that would be more typical of a healthy horse in the spring when ACTH is lowest ("middle of normal range").

For BCS I would not include the crest since it is a sign of PPID that can vary with no actual change in weight.  If she was a bit ribby then she would be <5 in my opinion.  If she has any other unusual fat pads that are characteristic of PPID (or EMS) try not to include them in your BCS assessment.  I'm new to estimating BCS, too, but if you post before and after photos someone here will provide a more experienced opinion.  :)

How much pergolide to give is a bit of an art.  Since this is her first year with you, you don't have any knowledge yet of how high her ACTH goes in the fall or how sensitive she is to pergolide.  If she had a history of fall laminitis that might make slightly over-medicating justifiable compared to slightly under-medicating.  Whatever you do chose for the dose increase (either of those options would be reasonable), if you have her retested near the peak of the rise (fall equinox) you'll get a sense of whether or not you should have increased it further and you can keep that information tucked away for next year.  My tendency is to go with the higher dose for at least the seasonal rise if she tolerates the medication well (you can always lower it in December), but others might prefer to keep it as low as possible.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album


Re: Calcium and Manganese

Nancy C
 

Hi Jennifer

Hopefully your identification of needed calcium and manganese was from a previous hay test. What you will have in your new load may be totally different.

Generally, calcium carbonate is used in a custom or DIY mix of supplements. Foods like beet pulp are high in calcium and can make up some deficit. I did have a look at the hay test in your file. I may be missing something.

Manganese is generally sulfate product. It has it's own special balancing rules.
--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2020-2021
Join us at the 2021 NO Laminitis! Conference, August 13-15, ECIR Virtual Conference Room


Re: Colic Surgery- Please Help Onyx

gypsylassie
 

Try searching at   Ecir Horsekeeping  too, if you haven't already.  Fwiw, I just saw a new rechargeable battery push mower in action yesterday and it was mowing up a storm.  
I hope the leaf shredder works for your boy.  
Laura K Chappie & Beau over the bridge
2011 N IL


Re: Severe itching from fly? allergies in IR horse

Frances C
 

Sweating produces moisture which attracts flies/gnats. So how to stop sweating when temps. are so high??? You could try therapeutic NEEM OIL, adding it to some fly spray. It is supposed to last longer than simple fly spray and especially repugnant to gnats. Also fans may help.
--
- Frances C.
December 2017, Washington & California
Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Frances%20and%20Phoenix
Phoenix's Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=12382


Re: Severe itching from fly? allergies in IR horse

Frances C
 

You may want to increase spirulina - 2/3 tablespoons of that nasty green stuff and see if that helps. Next year way before bug season start up the spirulina or keep on year round. I ended up having to remove my horse out of the gnat infested area. Twas the only thing that worked. In 2 or 3 days he was fine.
--
- Frances C.
December 2017, Washington & California
Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Frances%20and%20Phoenix
Phoenix's Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=12382


Re: Saraphina insulin test results

CYNDI CARLSON
 

Hi Candice,
I wanted you to know I took what you posted to heart.I have been constantly working on her diet.she has been on Gastrogard for 22 days still will not get anything but dry hay. I now give her supplements by syringe by mouth BUT she is doing a lot of walking( on sand) Philip was just here as you know, he’s doing a great job and was very thankful for Lavinia’s mark-ups, Thank you sooo much for referring him! He commented how much better Saraphina looked! She no longer wants to drink out of water buckets I have placed in her pen, she makes a trip to her automatic waterer, I have to chuckle because I know she wants to be here, wants her routine back.i have her up to 2mg of Prascend, NO more Equioxx since Saturday.I can tell she feels better! 

Thank you so much for your support!
--
Cyndi Carlson in Colorado 2021


Re: Severe itching from fly? allergies in IR horse

Cindy Giovanetti
 

Sherry,

You recommended worming with Fenbendazole.  I thought we were double dosing with Ivermectin for itchy horses.  Can someone clarify?  Mine is itchy too.  
--
Cindy, Oden, and Eeyore, North Texas
On ECIR protocol since 2/19
https://www.facebook.com/LifeWithOden/
History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Cindy%20and%20Oden
Photos:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=91125


Re: Colic Surgery- Please Help Onyx

Cindy Giovanetti
 

Mine get the Triple Crown Timothy Balance Cubes for 90 percent of their feed.  They don’t get tired of it.

 

Cindy


--
Cindy, Oden, and Eeyore, North Texas
On ECIR protocol since 2/19
https://www.facebook.com/LifeWithOden/
History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Cindy%20and%20Oden
Photos:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=91125


safe de-wormers for IR miniature horse AND OPTIONS FOR VITAMIN E SUPPLEMENTS FOR AN IR MINI HORSE

Jay Nixon
 

NEEDING OPTIONS FOR SAFE DE-WORMERS FOR IR MINIATURE HORSES AND ALSO

OPTIONS FOR VITAMIN E SUPPLEMENTS (ones that would be absorbed) FOR MINI HORSES.

THANK YOU.
PATTY NIXON, POWAY, CA


Re: Colic Surgery- Please Help Onyx

Elizabeth Kuzma
 

I ordered a leaf shredder and will try it. He loves his hay and has went off his normal feed when he has had past issues. So I don't know what other options there would be if he doesn't eat any of that. 
--
Elizabeth
Aug. 2019, Patchogue, NY
Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Elizabeth%20and%20Onyx
Onyx's Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=94258


Calcium and Manganese

Jennifer Green
 

I just want to start by saying how amazing everyone has been since I joined this site. I still feel overwhelmed, but knowing I have a place to go to get information has been such a relief.

Caroline has been nice enough to assist with helping me balance Ferg’s diet. We are getting a new delivery of hay and I will have that retested as soon as I can but in the mean time thanks to Caroline’s number crunching I’ve learned Fergus is low on Calcium. Is there a more tasty than not recommended product ?

He’s also low on maganese, but I don’t know much about this one either.


--
J.Green 
MA, USA
2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Fergus%20Case%20History
CaseHistory@ECIR.groups.io | Album


Re: Severe itching from fly? allergies in IR horse

jlmccarroll@...
 

Thank you, Bonnie and everyone for bearing with me during these first few months of ownership of this guy.  I have just found the time to read some of your comments (been living at the barn).

My apologies for not giving a more complete description of his condition/care.  

Firstly, I was unaware that I had purchased an IR horse (I was told he must have been "cut late"); so, this is a whole new world for me. Fortunately, I have a dear horse friend who is extremely knowledgeable and has been keeping my head above water for the last month and half..

This gelding had small welts over his body the morning after his arrival here and I began using a fly sheet intermittently until we hit triple digits occasionally and then daily for the last 3-4 weeks.  He has been itchy everywhere on his body his entire time here.  His scratching has intensified around his buttocks, tail, inner thighs and anus over the last month. 

My friend created an IR nutrition plan, which has been followed for the last 7 weeks. Supplements include, beet pulp (r- s-r), ground flax, California source, Gastromend, Forco (for loose stools), salt, Natural Vit E, Santa Cruz pre and probiotics, Solitude.  I will be adding J-herb, spirulina and chondroitin once they arrive this week.

At the time of implementing the IR diet plan, he was placed on tested teff hay until the feed store ran out.  He was then on soaked and unsoaked meadow grass that I had tested and was just slightly high in ESC+starch.  He received unsoaked hay for approximately 2 weeks before he began laying down a lot and was questionably uncomfortable in a sand arena.  We have switched to entirely soaked meadow grass hay for the last 7 days and are awaiting testing results on this year's teff crop.

He's had weekly trials of antihistamines with little success, first benedryl, then Zyrtec and we just began hydroxyzine yesterday. 

At the time of purchase, I was told he was up to date on wormers, vaccs, etc.  However, today, I began a Panacur Power pak.

His scratching has intensified around his buttocks, tail, inner thighs and anus. He began removing hair from his buttocks and really tearing at his tail over the last 6 days. I continue to check his midline and do not feel any open sores. The two other geldings he lives with are also itching and damaging their necks and one tail.  They both have mane breakage; but, no coat loss or skin damage. 10 sheep live next door and the local FFA stock (goat, sheep,steer) is ~1/4 mile away.

The vet gave me topical gentamicin spray for his worst areas.  Although his inner thighs and sheath are itchy, there is no skin breakdown.

My vet ascribes to Dr. Ellen's and this group's work.  She wants me to test how well his diet is controlling his IR, which I can do in approximately 3 weeks, before we even consider carefully using any steroids to help knock this reaction down.  I am aware that this is risky and will be researching your comments on this.

Lastly, this is turning out to be a bad year for bees and he is a bee magnet. Been stung 3 x in the last month.  The soaked hay doesn't help.

Thank you for all your responses and I know we'll get through this crisis with your sharing of your expertise and your support.  I'm a little paranoid about next year.

--With gratitude,
Jeannette Mc, NoCA 2021


Re: Severe itching from fly? allergies in IR horse

Sandra Hodge
 

Hi, My bame is Sandra Hall from Oklahoma.

I have an IR  QH/cutting mare she gets attacked every Spring/Summer from insects, as does my neighbors gelding...not IR....I give my neighbors gelding 8-10cc of Dexamethasone every other day for 5 doses.

My mare can only have 2 1/2 cc of Dex every other day.

This year I have it under controlled, but previously it was so bad the lumps would burst and brown puss like liquid would drip from lumps.

My Vet said to bath her and to cover her with Calamine Lotion...she walked around with this PINK lotion all over her....but it dried it all up in 2 days, not just flies but chiggers and knats attacked her.

Just a suggestion, but it worked for me.

Thanks,

Sandra Hall 
cuttinaussie@...


On Tuesday, August 17, 2021, 03:17:54 PM CDT, <jlmccarroll@...> wrote:


Tricky using a fly sheet in triple digit weather.  They sweat so much without anything on them.
--
Jeannette Mc, NoCA 2021


Re: Severe itching from fly? allergies in IR horse

jlmccarroll@...
 

Tricky using a fly sheet in triple digit weather.  They sweat so much without anything on them.
--
Jeannette Mc, NoCA 2021


Re: Severe itching from fly? allergies in IR horse

jlmccarroll@...
 

Thank you, Valerie.  I've seen this advertised and wondered about it.  I wonder if the itch irritation stimulus of sweet itch is the same as allergies?
--
Jeannette Mc, NoCA 2021


Re: Severe itching from fly? allergies in IR horse

jlmccarroll@...
 

Hi Cass

Thank you so much for sharing.  I admit, I've been at the barn so much soaking and fluffing hay, turning him in and out and trying to make him comfortable that I haven't had time to read all these wonderful responses.  So, I'm reading and responding to them one by one.  Will check out your group.  This horse came from Petaluma and is now in the Sacramento valley (Woodland). We are typically hot; but, this summer we've had several consecutive weeks of triple digits. So, I couldn't keep him covered in the heat, he was sweating badly enough without anything. This year also seems really bad for bees and he is a bee magnet!  Been hassled a lot and stung 3 times in a couple weeks. Tried to find Bee Ready; but, not sure if it's available any more. His seller said they "don't have flies" in Petaluma; so, he's never had an issue before???   Yes, I am doing all these things (will try the Noxema!) and also coaching myself to keep all my marbles while all this takes effect. In the meantime, the area of hair loss is growing...
--
Jeannette Mc, NoCA 2021


Re: Colic Surgery- Please Help Onyx

 

Elizabeth, I agree with Cass on the boring part.  

I searched on the messages here for ‘hay+chopping’ and came up with quite a few posts, including your last one.  You could fool around with the search and probably come up with some more.  I seem to recall lawn mowers and leaf shredders.  If I remember correctly, Cass had an old leaf shredder she’d used.  It caught my attention because I think we had the very same item.  I shred our many leaves with a power mower.  
--

Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 

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