Date   

Re: Hoffman's BalanceIR Ration

Lorna Cane
 

On Wed, Aug 25, 2021 at 07:26 AM, <lamarleau@...> wrote:
There is nothing for IR horses in Canada
Francine,what do you mean by this ? I hope others of us here will chime in with products they have found here.
There are many of us here from Canada, who have managed to find a solution.
I hope it's not out of line for me to ask you to list everything you have tried. 
Sometimes our horses will find something appealing,which we never would have guessed.
 
--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


Re: Hoffman's BalanceIR Ration question for Sherry

Lorna Cane
 

On Wed, Aug 25, 2021 at 05:39 AM, Jennifer Green wrote:
The hay is from eastern Canada, so it might balance better with the Canadian products.
Hi Jennifer,

Don't worry about this. The hay test results will determine what is needed to balance it. I think you'll find that it matters not whether said products are from Canada or the US., as long as they provide what the balancing calculations call for.
Madbarn is, indeed, a good (Canadian) company ,though.

 
--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


Re: Hoffman's BalanceIR Ration

lamarleau@...
 

Hi
I saw the other post from Jennifer/Sherry on this.

Magic is on Omneity from Madbarn with timothy pellets as a carrier but he will no longer eat it.  I have tried different flavouring and he leaves it in the bucket even through the night.  He went off his grain so we treated him for ulcer (omeprazole) and I am on the 4th week of treatment with no improvement.

I already tried timothy balance, soy hull pellets, any kind of flavouring you can imagine. I have a full variety.  So far fenugreek is a winner, but still not enough for him. I cooked 3 recipes that I took here and he doesn't like anything, but all my other horses are going crazy for my cookies.

I am trying to find something a little tastier to help (as a carrier).  If I give him a bit of Purina Simplici-T fibra (which he cannot have), he is happy. Can't take a chance.

There is nothing for IR horses in Canada and I tried to find a way to get Stabul1, but there is just no way and I can't cross the border yet as it's still closed. This mini is going to kill me, I swear.


Thank you
--
Francine & Magic in Quebec Nov 2020
Was a member 10 yrs ago with Shamy


Re: Testing hay pellets

Kim Leitch
 

Joy,
I use a plastic squeeze ketchup bottle, like you see on tables in cheap restaurants, with a long nozzle. I mix the salt and hot water in it, then stick the nozzle through the net to squirt the salt water on the hay.
--
Kim 10-2014

Clover, SC

Dually: IR; Grits and Bella: PPID, IR; and Eeyore (deceased, but not PPID related)

Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kim%20and%20Grits%20-%20Eeyore%20-%20Dually

Photo album Grits https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=1314

Photo album Eeyore https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6586&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0
Photo album Dually https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=9046&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0
Photo album Bella https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=64978




Re: Hoffman's BalanceIR Ration question for Sherry

Jennifer Green
 

Thanks Maxine,

Just got new hay yesterday. I’m going to collect samples today for a new hay test and then have the new hay balanced. I’m on the tail end of the CA Trace Plus so with all the new info, it could be a good tune to make changes. My main concern is that Fergus can be picky and making a change that doesn’t taste as good or tastes different might be a challenge.  Do picky eaters tend to like the Madbarn products?

The last hay we had needed maganese added, so Madbarn it might be a good option. The hay is from eastern Canada, so it might balance better with the Canadian products.

Fergus has not been footy at all, but I really do just want to get it right in a way that he’s willing to eat it. If rice bran has the potential to cause problems, I’d rather try to move to something less risky. If this pony ever founders, I’ll at least be able to say I tried my very very best.
--
J.Green 
MA, USA
2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Fergus%20Case%20History
CaseHistory@ECIR.groups.io | Album


Re: Hoffman's BalanceIR Ration question for Sherry

Nancy C
 

HI All

The issue with Rice Bran is the Omega 3 and 6 ratios. Understanding how much is being fed is critical. As  pointed out, a few ounces of CA trace vs multiple kg of a given feed will make a big difference, As it happens we have a handy guide to help see how omegas differ in various products and given amounts.

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/5%20Core%20Diet/Omega%203%20and%20Omega%206/FlaxBOSSpeasCHIAhemp.pdf

Based on previous conversations here, if you contact CA Trace, I am 99.99% certain that they will share how much Rice Bran is in their serving amount so you can calculate.

Make sure you are feeding flax as recommended.

--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2020-2021

Targeted release of recordings of the 2021 NO Laminitis! Conference -- end of August.


Re: Hay recommendations

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Kelly,

Let's back up a step.  She was originally on Teff and eating that, correct?  Is there a reason you did not just soak that hay as she was already used to it? Do you still have access to that hay?  If so, you may want to try soaking that and see if she will eat it. 

Has she been started on APF yet? 

If metformin is being given via syringe is her mouth being rinsed out after administration?  You can read more about the way to properly administer metformin to avoid oral ulcers here: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/4%20Insulin%20Resistance/Metformin

Lack of food would cause insulin to drop, not rise - it's one of the reasons that horses that have been fasted will have lower insulin readings and why Saddie's 24.61 result may seem normal, but it's actually not.  A horse that's been fasted for testing should have a level below 10. 

If she's still on NSAIDs at this point long term use of them can cause ulcers which lead to a decrease in appetite that's something to consider as well.  Even pain by itself can cause a decrease in appetite so be aware of that as well.




Hay recommendations

dr.kellylear@...
 

My mare is a very picky eater and always have been. She is not a fan of soaked hay at all. I have been soaking the Timothy and she will nibble
on It but she is definitely not eating 2% of her body weight. In fact she would rather eat her manure. I have access to Bermuda grass hay and orchard grass hay too and I sent samples out for analysis for the Timothy, Bermuda and orchard but haven’t gotten those back yet. 

My question is should I keep with the timothy and let her just nibble at it or should I try a different soaked hay like the orchard or Bermuda. I am scared to switch hay on her and cause any changes in the microbes in her intestines. But I am also concerned if she isn’t eating enough she will have insulin rises due to the lack of food. 

Please let me know what everyone thinks is best. 

--

 

Kelly Lear in Texas 2021

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kelly%20and%20Saddie

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=267371


Re: Hoffman's BalanceIR Ration question for Sherry

Maxine McArthur
 

Hi Jennifer
Not Sherry, but if Fergus is doing well on the Cal Trace Plus (no footiness etc), I would not worry too much about the rice bran in it. If he were a very sensitive IR horse, maybe I would remove it from the diet, but the recommended dose (for a 1000 lb horse) is 4 ounces (112g), and although they do not state the amount of rice bran, the supplement also contains yeast, so even if the rice bran is half of the dose, the actual amount is quite small. The Hoffmans feed that Sherry cautioned against is supposed to be fed in kilogram amounts, which is a different case to the Cal Trace Plus and definitely would not be a good idea to feed to an IR horse. 
However, we do suggest targeted supplementation of minerals if at all possible, as then you can make sure he is getting the minerals deficient in his hay and nothing else that might be unnecessary (such as the rice bran). There are some other  generic mineral supplements in the group Files that are safe for IR horses, so you could switch to one of those if you are concerned--the Cal Trace Plus is also on that list. Acceptable Ration Balancers.pdf (groups.io)
--
Maxine and Indy (PPID) and Dangles (PPID)

Canberra, Australia 2010
ECIR Primary Response

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Maxine%20and%20Indy%20and%20Dangles 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=933

 


Re: Saddie’s Case, Dr. Kellon please review

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Kelly,

A couple of things that would help us with regard to the case history:

1 - can you save it as a PDF and load that into your folder so everyone can view it?  Not everybody can open a Pages file (I have to run them through cloud convert to read them).
2 - it would be helpful if you could add the following info:

Was the testing done today done fasting or non-fasting?  Was the blood drawn at home or at the vet? Is she still on fluids?

If she's laying down she's resting her feet so don't force her to get up.  Do make sure she has hay and water nearby so she can eat and drink without getting up if needed.  She's in boots and pads at this point, correct?




Re: Hoffman's BalanceIR Ration question for Sherry

Jennifer Green
 

Ive learned rice bran should be avoided but the other night I looked at my Cal Trace Plus (which I thought was ok to feed) and it has rice bran in it! I’m feeling concerned and confused. 
--
J.Green 
MA, USA
2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Fergus%20Case%20History
CaseHistory@ECIR.groups.io | Album


Re: Hoffman's BalanceIR Ration

Sherry Morse
 

What are you looking to balance with this? Without knowing what the ESC+starch number is (at least a ballpark) I wouldn't want to feed this to an IR horse as it contains rice bran and the binder could be anything.




New lateral xrays for Bugsy

Judy and Bugsy
 

I had the vet do lateral rads on Bugsy when vet was out doing teeth. Rads were done 3 weeks post trim.   I had the rads done more out of curiosity as Bugsy continues to do well.  He wears boots when we ride outside and when walking to and from the barn, he still chooses to walk on the side of the path where there is grass/weeds, so I know he is not 100%.  Plus prior to warm up, he still has a sensitive back when pressure is applied, and will still occasionally shift on his front feet. 
 
I see that his sole isn't as thick as I would like and I don't think the tip of the coffin bone has changed since his April 2020 rads.  During the NO Laminitis Conference, I recall someone saying (I can't recall which speaker it was)  if the bones align, then there's a good chance that the coffin bone may never sit properly in the hoof capsule (I think I heard that right... I'm waiting to re-listen to everything when the recordings are available and I'm not distracted by 1001 things around here.), but with everyone's help on this board, especially Lavinia and her markups, we have gone from booted 24/7 to riding up to 1 hour in boots outside and no boots in sand arena.  

I also had rads done on my 3 year old QH.  Rads confirm suspicion of negative or zero plantar angle and the bullnose hoof capsule is very apparent in the rads - we are working on getting her feet sorted out as well.  Oh, these darn horses! lol

 

Judy and Bugsy

Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada

Feb. 25, 2020

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Judy%20and%20Bugsy
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=243358

 




Re: Hay analysis--which numbers to use

Nancy C
 

Hi Julie

After two decades ECIR says....ESC and Starch
--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2020-2021

Targeted release of recordings of the 2021 NO Laminitis! Conference -- end of August.


Re: Hoffman's BalanceIR Ration

Nancy C
 

What is this balancing?
--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2020-2021

Targeted release of recordings of the 2021 NO Laminitis! Conference -- end of August.


Saddie’s Case, Dr. Kellon please review

dr.kellylear@...
 

Hello Dr. Kellon,
Would you mind reviewing my mares case when you get a chance. She is out of the wedges now and I feel horrible she was in them. She is more comfortable but still spending about 50% of the time laying down. She does not like the soaked hay at all so she isn’t eating very well and I am still waiting for the hay analysis to come back. 

Another metabolic panel was submitted today too.
Thank you for all your help! 

Kelly 
--

 

Kelly Lear in Texas 2021

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kelly%20and%20Saddie

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=267371


Re: Saraphina new rads, help Lavinia

Ann Conn
 

Always listen to ECIR. They know much more than the vets...except ECIR vets of course.
Glad you found them.
Ann Conn
Azeem. 2016
Central Texas


Hoffman's BalanceIR Ration

lamarleau@...
 

Hello
Anyone feeding this?  Any comments?

https://hoffmanshorseproducts.com/Product-BalancIR-Ration 
Hoffman’s BalancI.R. Ration

Feed Form: Pellet  |  Product #: H100600  |  *This feed contains added selenium at 0.6 mg/kg

Guaranteed Analysis

Crude Protein (Min.) 10.0% Salt (Actual) 0.5%
Crude Fat (Min.) 3.0% Vitamin A (Min.) 14,000 IU/kg
Crude Fiber (Min.) 30.0% Vitamin D3 (Min.) 1,400 IU/kg
Calcium (Actual) 1.0% Vitamin E (Min.) 95 IU/kg
Phosphorus (Actual) 0.55%    
Sodium (Actual) 0.35%    

Feeding Directions

Hoffman’s BALANCI.R. Horse Ration is a part of the Hoffman’s line of equine feeds. Hoffman’s BALANCI.R. Horse Ration is designed to be fed with a low NSC (Non-structural Carbohydrate) forage to horses sensitive to higher levels of sugars and starches. Hoffman’s BALANCI.R. Horse Ration is designed to be fed at 3 – 6 kg per head daily, in at least 2 equal, separated feedings. Hay should be fed at 1 – 1.5 kg per 100 kg of body weight. For horses needing more body condition, feed Hoffman’s BALANCI.R. horse ration up to 8 kg per head per day in three or four equal feedings spaced at least 4 hours apart. The actual feeding level will be determined by the quality of the forage, level and intensity of the work, and the condition of the horse. This feed is intended for horses over 1 year of age. Always allow free choice access to clean water, salt and Hoffman’s Horse Mineral.

Features and Benefits

 

Ingredients

 

Soybean Hulls
Stabilized Rice Bran
Malt Sprouts
Oat Hulls
Diamond V Yeast
Canola Oil
Phosphatydyl-choline
Oat hulls
Binder
Mycocurb
Flavour
Limestone
Mono-calcium Di-calcium phosphate
Sodium Bicarbonate
Salt
Magnesium chelate
Magnesium oxide
Lysine
Methionine
Choline
Vitamin A 

 

Vitamin D3
Vitamin E
Zinc Oxide
Zinc Methionine
Manganous Oxide
Manganese Methionine
Copper sulfate
Copper Lysine
Calcium iodate
Cobalt Carbonate
Cobalt Gluccoheptonate
Sodium Seleneite (selenium)
Diamond V Organic selenium
Biotin
Pantothenic Acid
Riboflavin Folic Acid
Vitamin B12
Vitamin K
Pyridoxine
Niacin

--


























Francine & Magic in Quebec Nov 2020
Was a member 10 yrs ago with Shamy


Hay analysis--which numbers to use

trails4jd@...
 

My vet said to simply look at the NFS and to keep it at 12 or lower.  My friend uses ESC and starch less than ten or WSC, ESC and starch less than 20.  Just looking at the one number (NFS) is sure simpler but . . . who's right.  I tried to research this on the site but didn't find anything real current.  Thank you.  
--
Julie D OR 2021

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Julie%20and%20Porter


Re: Mayonnaise for dosing

Deb Walker
 

Enjoying reading everyone's creative ideas. For me...any carrier AT ALL that was considered a treat worked for only a very SHORT time. Even months after whatever I used, Scotty refused to take a "treat" from me. He gets the tiny little pergolide capsules, so I can't imagine there is a negative flavor factor. So, I now stand on his side (sometimes he tries to run away but it doesn't work) put his chin on my shoulder to raise his head as much as possible, with my left hand over his nose, and shove the capsule in the right side of his mouth, then clamp my hands over the front of his mouth to prevent spitting out. If I see the capsule on his tongue, I just slide it back with my fingers. I suppose this is easier when your horse has no back teeth :) :) :) He still manages to spit it out, and I just pick it back up and shove it back in. I hug him and pet his nose until I hear him swallow.

Janalee mentioned peppermint flavoring above. The one thing I discovered from Day 1 of owning Scotty is that he does not like peppermint.


--
Deb and Scotty I/R, PPID
Pecatonica Illinois, May 13, 2019
Case History:
 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Deb%20and%20Scotty
Photos:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=90619

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