Date   

Re: WSC/ESC/NSC

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Read this, and all the links https://wp.me/p2WBdh-1cc .
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Rescue Horse. Lavinia / Dr. Kellon can you tell us your opinion on these x-rays and blood work/meds?

Maria Duran
 

Hello Lavinia and Dr. Kellon,

Thank you very much for your help.

As Paola has already said, he is going to be tested for IR/PPID, he is in an IR diet by now just in case. Eating well. Paola will upload the results as soon as they are ready.

Could you please comment on the current treatment with aspirin, gabapentin and hemovas please?. Jiaogulan has been ordered and will arrive in 3 weeks or so.

I know the X rays are aweful, but I am worried about the huge radiolucent area of the RF under the coffin bone if you can comment on it too. Condado has improved a lot after the trim and is resting in a much better posture. The huge laminar wedge has been removed, but it looks like the heels are a bit high. Paola will upload pics soon.

Dr. Kellon I don´t know if you can see the blood work, could you comment on it please?

Just trying to make sure he has a chance and there is no infection in the bone or something alike.

Thank you very much.


--
María Durán Navarro 
Dec 2017
Madrid (Spain)

Plutón´s Case History
Plutón´s Photo Album
_._,_._,_


Re: Unresponsive insulin resistance

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Hi Nicole,

It is a new drug with no equine FDA approval and that's why the suggested testing before and after starting is extensive. It's very expensive if you buy it from a US pharmacy, even with the discount codes, but much more manageable if you use a Canadian pharmacy. It doesn't cure anything so yes, they stay on it unless there is a change in management like a significant increase in exercise but you may be able to lower the dose.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: WSC/ESC/NSC

Thurstonjs@...
 

Whew, thank you, Lorna! I will also search for WSC.
--
Jackie Thurston
Suffolk, VA 2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jackie%20and%20Rose


Re: WSC/ESC/NSC

Lorna Cane
 

Hi Jackie,

If you put WSC into the Search box you will get  a lot more information. But (from Dr. Kellon) "you don't want to add WSC + starch.  WSC includes fructans which do not influence insulin. Add ESC + starch. That number should be under 10."

You're good.

--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


WSC/ESC/NSC

Thurstonjs@...
 

Hi, I am a bit confused about the values for the above. I was going by ESC + starch but then read on an extension site about reading a hay analysis that NSC's (WSC + starch) 12% and higher is not good to feed an IR horse. If I go by ESC + starch I'm within the range (.7 starch, 8.1 ESC) but if I look at WSC 12.1% +.7 starch I am in trouble.
--
Jackie Thurston
Suffolk, VA 2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jackie%20and%20Rose


Re: Invokana & Devils Claw

hdavis
 


Re: Unresponsive insulin resistance

Nicole
 

Hi Dr Kellon,

I sent you a private message with my vet’s email so you could send that info, thanks. 
I didn’t know if it was really “approved” yet for standard use or widely used, so I just figured there were some risks or something, that’s all. Is it really expensive, and does it become a regular maintenance drug they stay on or is it just taken until they get to a good insulin number? 
--
Nicole P
2021, Minnesota 

Case History: Strawberry Case History

Photo album: Strawberry Photo Album


Cupcake on Invokana/Newbie

Carla Anderson Peters
 

Hello!
My urine strips are coming tomorrow.  She has already been on it since Friday, and I must admit I haven't seen her less footy, even with boots.  I have addressed her trim and will check on the trim.  Aside of that, what are some other experience with how long you saw effects?  Any tips to catch a urine sample? Any struggle in using a different pharmacy to obtain the medication?  Also, anything else we need to know! :-)  Thank you!!
--
Carla

 

December 2013, WI

Cupcake and Gunnar's Case Histories 

Cupcake's Photos

Gunnar's Photos 

Ω



Re: Newbie questions

Thurstonjs@...
 

Thanks, Sherry! So glad your vet saw the light and did what you wanted! 7 more years is remarkable!

The hay supplier is going to email me the analysis of the hay I am feeding. I will post that when I get it. I understand now about the balanced cubes. Thank you!

Interesting, I just got the last lab results which shows her ACTH and Insulin %. Those weren't surprising as I already knew the amounts. But what surprised me is that the notes reflect recommending 2 scoops Thyro-L but the rescue told me 1 scoop. They were told that by the owner I'm sure. She was at the rescue from estimate May 8 through July 23, we brought her home July 24th.

So I can still feel her ribs but her belly is starting to look bigger than I'd like. I'll be sure to measure everything again now that I've started feeding the cubes.

Ugh about the Buggzo. I know someone who feeds it so I can pass it on to her.

I'll work on getting pics of her feet soon.

Kindest,
--
Jackie Thurston
Suffolk, VA 2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jackie%20and%20Rose


Re: Checking in and with some interesting info to share

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Glucose.  It's easier to see when glucose has been degraded by sample handling, so it tells you if insulin or ACTH may also have been affected. 

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album


Re: Now: Member Recommended Professionals Lists - 09/13/2021 #cal-notice

@sarahunt
 

Would also like to note that the link at the bottom of the professionals list goes to the Hoof Rehab Help group which is now archived--come see the list at "Hoof Care and Rehabilitation". We're always happy to help over there!
--
Sara
PHCP Advanced Student Practitioner
Prophecy - 33 yo Morgan - PPID
Missy - 8yo Morgan - EMS
San Diego, CA
2019


Re: seasonal rise complications part two- Laminitis?

Trisha DePietro
 

correction her ACTH and insulin is from May 2021. sorry for my confusion, just want to head this off if possible. thanks.

--
Trisha DePietro
Aug 2018
NH
Dolly and Hope's Case Histories
Dolly's Photos 
Hope's Photos 
Primary Responder


seasonal rise complications part two- Laminitis?

Trisha DePietro
 

Hi all. So, Dolly, whose case history is updated, I believe started brewing a subclinical laminitis. I'm not sure what to say is the trigger- except a seasonal rise issue? Her July ACTH was 15. and uncompensated IR at that time. Her feet are not hot, her pulses are not evident. But she gets relief from styrofoam pads duct taped to her feet. She is getting 2 Prascend. What is the recommendation for a potential laminitis during the seasonal rise? 

I'm thinking a possible plan would be to retest her ACTH, insulin and glucose, cloud boots, soak hay ( 6.6 ESC and starch) and something for pain ie j herb or phytoquench? and increase her Prascend by a 1/2 tab? 

Thanks. 


--
Trisha DePietro
Aug 2018
NH
Dolly and Hope's Case Histories
Dolly's Photos 
Hope's Photos 
Primary Responder


Re: Newbie questions

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Jackie,

If you are going to balance her ration yourself you can buy the individual ingredients needed.  If you are not comfortable balancing her ration we suggest you contact somebody on the balancer list for assistance determining what is needed to supplement your hay. https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/6%20Diet%20Balancing/HAY%20BALANCING-1.pdf is that list.

The timothy balance cubes are - as the name suggests - balanced to themselves and need no other supplementation other than salt, flax and Vitamin E.

As far as your vet - at the end of the day you are the one responsible for Rose and you are her advocate.  If your vet doesn't agree with that perspective it might be time to look for another practitioner.  I had a come to Jesus moment with my vet when my mare was 25 and could barely breath (pre-PPID diagnosis) over where we were going with her treatment at that point.  As nicely as I could I pointed out that if we didn't try what I wanted I was going to have to put her down because she was suffering so what did we have to lose?  She lived almost 7 more years after that.

Rose sounds like a typical IR pony plus she was a rescue so you don't know if she was starved at some point before which creates its own set of issues. You can double net the hay, use smaller hole nets and/or put a muzzle on her to slow her down.  As long as you control her intake (measure the amount she's fed each day) she won't gain weight.

Swelling in the udder area can be a sign of IR or something else.  Personally if it's not showing signs of heat or discharge I'd just keep an eye on it and maybe take some pictures to monitor it. 

Buggzo - IMO it's overpriced and since you don't know what the grain by products used are it could be an issue.  I've used straight garlic before and it's worked a treat, but you have to have a horse that will actually eat it.  None of the ones I've used it on were IR or PPID so that wasn't a concern with them.

Keratex is a basically a bandaid.  In order to get Rose's feet in better shape you need to make sure that she's being trimmed properly.  To do that getting a full set of hoof pictures posted and sending a note with something like "Lavinia, hoof markups requested" at least a week prior to the next trim would be helpful. Directions on that: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/6%20Diet%20Balancing/HAY%20BALANCING-1.pdf




Re: Invokana & Devils Claw

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Heather,

That's news to me. I suggest you write to them and ask for copies of those "tests".
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Unresponsive insulin resistance

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Nicole,

I have quite a bit of background information on Invokana that I will send directly to your vet if you want to try it. Yes, there are many people using it with success and hopefully they will read your message. I'm not sure what you mean by risk. Some horses have had elevations in triglyceride levels but that has been manageable with diet.
Before trying it you need a blood chemistry run and triglyceride levels as a baseline.  You will need to get some urinalysis dipsticks to follow her urine glucose in response to the Invokana.

--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Now: Member Recommended Professionals Lists - 09/13/2021 #cal-notice

debost@...
 

The link to the recommended veterinarians and clinics list doesn't work.  Where do I find that list?
--
Deborah Ostrofsky
Year of joining: 2021
Location: Northwestern Pa


Newbie questions

Thurstonjs@...
 

Good morning all.

I've uploaded Rose's case history, will be updating it as I get more information. This group is a wonderful resource, thank you so much Meanwhile! Meanwhile, I have some questions. Trying to pull all this together.

1. So, based on her hay and feed (Timothy balancer cubes, flax, salt, hay) I look at what she's getting regarding protein, amino acids, etc. and choose a balancer based on this amounts? Ex: if she needs more lysine I look for an approved balancer that includes that?

2. I'm concerned about my vet not being happy about the changes I've made to her food since I saw her last. Other than explaining why I'm trying to keep all feed stuff <10%, not sure how it will all go for our next visit tomorrow.

3. Rose's appetite is huge. She is a small horse. But she eats her hay so quickly, scarfs it all down way too fast. I use slow feeders that does ow her down but she acts like she's starving. I haven't introduced ground work yet except what we've been doing when I handle her and take her to the paddock. Seems she had her way before but there is a really sweet girl there that knows a lot. Will her appetite calm down? I'm concerned she may gain weight.

4. In the case history, I added that Rose has one swollen udder. It fluctuates in swelling/hardness, there is no heat or discharge. She had bute and SMZ (per vet) with the change. Vet thinks maybe our area grasses/allergens causing it, said I may have to live with it. Rescue said she didn't have it there and the owners didn't say that wss part of her history. Just wondering if anyone has had this happen. The other udder is normal,  she's never been bred.

5. Rose has very thin soles and separation. I will try to upload what was sent to me. I was going to start putting Keratex on her soles. It's soft here but I worry about winter. She is not tender or sore currently. 

6. I bought Horse Tech Buggzo to help with the new bugs Rose is dealing with in our area. Is this OK? I haven't fed it yet after reading the files.

Thank you in advance!
--
Jackie Thurston
Suffolk, VA 2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jackie%20and%20Rose


Unresponsive insulin resistance

Nicole
 

Strawberry’s insulin came back >200 again from her 9/3 bloodwork. Her ACTH was 34 I think, but I don’t have the report yet. She is worse today and has started laying down more. Nothing seems to help. She is on 9.5 tabs Metformin twice a day, planning to retest insulin in a couple weeks to see if there is any affect. Is there an info sheet on Invokana? Is that the only other option and are there many people using it with success, or is it too high of risk.  Are some ponies (or horses) just never able to bring their insulin back down? If she doesn’t get some relief soon I can’t keep her going like this. 

--
Nicole P
2021, Minnesota 

Case History: Strawberry Case History

Photo album: Strawberry Photo Album

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