Hi Laura,

Judging from Pab's CH, I would be inclined to raise his CP to at least 5.5mg, if he were here. It seems you have been  chasing the rise, unless I'm missing something.
Interested in what other's think about this.

--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php

You didn't answer any of the questions I asked above, so unfortunately I can't really advise you until you do so.
--

Candice Piraino

Primary Response Team

September 2018, Summerfield, FL

Shark's Case History

Shark's Photo Album 

PHCP Barefoot Trimmer @www.arkhavenfarm.com

 

Karen, as Sherry said, the hay portion of the diet should be balanced, especially the trace minerals so critical to our horses’ hoof quality. Have you considered taking Dr Kellon’s class on equine nutrition and diet balancing? All online and worth every penny. http://drkellon.com/coursedescriptions/nrcplus.html
--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse and Diamond Case History Folder                
Cayuse Photos                Diamond Photos

Thanks Cass and Candice, for the suggestions.  I'll look into them!
--
Kathy H in ON 2021

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kathy%20and%20Magni

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=266135

Liz,

That might not be vigorous enough exercise but the other big consideration this time of year is ACTH. He could be having exaggerated seasonal rises due to early PPID. I would check that ASAP.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001

Kirsten is correct. These are the 60% amounts, rounded off:

Tri-Amino - don't change; leave it 1 scoop
Flax - 10 ounces
1 1/4 scoop Glycocemic EQ
1 1/3 scoop Poly Zinc
1 scoop Poly Copper

In addition to introducing slowly, CocoSoya always works for me.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001

Hi Tina,

I've found it best,when introducing new supplements,to add a pinch at a time. I do this for a couple of days and then increase by bits.
Tedious. But helps horse to adjust his taste buds.

--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php

Received my Ucklele minerals this week  tried feeding them last night and Griffin would not touch it.  He has been eating 1lb of TC Timothy cubes with 1 tsp salt, 3/4 cup of flax and 1/2 cup of Beet pulp RSR and 1 tsp of Uckele vitamin E fine.  Basically he haas been on the Emergency diet.  Last night i added as you recommended, 
1 scoop of Tri Amino
1 lb of ground flax
2 scoops glycocemicEQ 
2 1/4 poly zinc
Poly copper on back order 1 2/3 scoops recommended
I added that to 1lb timothy cubed soaked with the beet pulp ,E and salt
t and he would not touch it
My question is do I introduce it slowly ?  Your recommended amounts were for 2olbs of hay and a 1000 lb horse.  Griffin weighs 720lbs and i feed him 12 lbs of hay.  I do not know how to properly figure out the right amounts. Kirsten suggested12lb divided by 20lbs x100% = 60% so reduce the recommended mineral amounts to 60%of the recommended amount  Can you help me with this please  Thanks so much.  P.s.I am going out of the country for 14 days so I am going to keep him on emergency diet until I return to make sure he is eating well while I am gone.
Tina Bachmann in VA 2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Tina%20and%20Griffin

Message Posting Etiquette - Keeping ECIR User Friendly

When:
09/15/2021

View Event

Description:
Message Posting Etiquette

This is a high volume group that can be difficult to follow. Help make it easier for everyone by following the Message Posting Guidelines below:

1) Sign your posts. This is a very large group.  Whenever posting a message, identify yourself and your equine by using your full ECIR Signature with your first name, location, the date you joined and the links to your Case History folder and Photo Album. The volunteers need all this information to provide quality responses and suggestions for local support, vendors, vets and hoof care. 
 
2) Be clear in your posts. If you need to quote a line this is most easily done using the web to reply (not from email). Once you have the message you want to reply to on your screen, copy the text you want quoted, then paste it into the reply message composer.  Highlight the text you are quoting and then click on the quotation marks in the toolbar.  

3) Be considerate of the Support Team. They volunteer to help members in their spare time. Many have full time jobs. Unless you are in an emergency read the Start Here Files and check the archives to see if your question has been answered before.  Many new member's questions are answered there.

4) Discussion should always take place on the forums so all members can learn from the conversation and the support team can help clear up confusion.  

5)  Try not to hijack threads.  Start a New Message or change the subject line to discuss issues not covered by the subject line.

6) Don't immediately re-post.  Give “missing” posts a few hours before reposting. For unanswered messages, be patient. A lack of response is not personal or a reflection on you in any way. With so many posts some do get missed. Unless in an emergency situation, wait roughly 48 hours before re-posting and edit the subject line with "2nd Try". 

7) Off-topic but horse-related discussions: ECIR Horsekeeping Forum provides a place to discuss issues involving non-PPID/EMS horses, general horse keeping practices, other equine health issues, alternative therapies and any equine related philosophical debates.

8) All discussion about horses with PPID and EMS takes place in the ECIR Forum. Hoof related discussion for horses that do not have PPID/EMS takes place in the ECIR Hoof Forum. 

 Thank you for your cooperation.
 
- The ECIR Group support Team

 

Hi,
My 21 year old, Lusitano ( I suppose one of the many poster horses of EMS) was diagnose in July as ESM.  As mention in case history, I thought it was a fluke, but the following month his insulin rose from 69 uIU/mL to 114 uIU/ml at Cornell.  In August, started exercising more at a trot in round pen  starting at 10 minutes trot  working our way up to 15 minutes 2 to 3 times a week. The other days I rode mostly at a walk 30 minutes. One day off a week.  Lab results beginning of September even higher at over 200. (waiting for exact number). Currently up to 20 minutes trotting 3 times a week, the  other 3 days riding mostly walk for 45 minutes. 

Other information, not lame, but I admit could  be sub-clinical laminitis.  Always been very forward horse, but lethargic the last week or so, not sure if pain or increase in exercise is slowing Dante down.  His timothy hay is 7.7 ESC plus starch.  On a bare pasture for 8 hrs a day with hay and buddy . Today removed all weeds on fence line, which could of contribute to problem,   Plan to retest beginning of October.
  
So my questions are 1) how long do I continue exercise before I throw in the towel and say this isn't the answer for him.2) what else is recommended?

Thanks in advance


Liz
SW Washington
January 25, 2020

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Liz%20and%20Dante/Dante%20Case%20History%20.pdf
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/photo/268141 Dante photo


Tasha photo album
Case History

Thanks Cass for your response.  For Bermuda grass hay, it is very nice hay, leafy, smells great, and is very palatable---our other horses love it and Montana was eating it until about 2 months ago. We stopped feeding it to her when we thought it was so high in starch due to the other analysis I had done.  They had starch at 4.2 and sugars at 9.4.  She had been a little sore footed, especially her LH, but my farrier discovered a white line separation caused by sand packing into it.

I will go read that article.  I had been taught to use the NSC % of feeds per my experience on FB groups, but am quickly realizing that the learning curve with EMS is not really a curve, but a straight line up!!!

I did have the 601 Equi-Tech done, but will use the 603 Trainer in the future.  Thanks for that as well.

I would like to feed Montana some of this hay.  She is on the Timothy Balance Cubes now with salt, flax, and Vita E added to some I have soaked.  If I feed half and half, do I need to add something to balance it?
--
Karen M and Montana Rose in TX 2021

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Karen%20and%20Montana

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=267866

How do you figure that out? 
--
Lamourah Perron 
Queens Bay British Columbia 
Hoof pictures Sept 2021

Hi Candice,

Pabatsa was dx Cushing’s in 2007 so he’s had it for some time. Historically, his ACTH starts to rise around the end of July. And, he’s 24 years old. His G:I are at good levels so it’s not his diet.

He’s in moderate arena work 5x’s/week. He’s fed:
20-24 lbs Timothy hay
4 cups Stabul 1
Horsetech Custom Minerals
Uckele Tendon EQ (per Dr. Kellon)
Uckele liquid Vitamin E
2 tsp/2x’s/day Spirulina
3 tbsp Morton’s Iodized Salt
4.5 mg Precision Pharmacy’s CP
--
Laura and Pabatsa in California
Feb 2012
Case History https://ecir.groups.io /g/CaseHistory/files/Laura%20a nd%20Pabatsa ( https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Laura%20and%20Pabatsa )
Pabatsa's Photos https://ecir.groups.io /g/CaseHistory/album?id=1740 ( https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=1740 )

Yes, you can do 50/50. All depends on how much you need to lower the overall ESC+starch total.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR

--
Lamourah Perron 
Queens Bay British Columbia 
Hoof pictures Sept 2021

Hi Lamourah,

Yes, you can mix two hays and average the ESC+starch numbers as long as it's done at each meal. You can't feed one hay at one time and the other one at another time. The other thing you need to do is make sure the horse is actually eating both hays, not picking thru and only eating the (usually) higher sugar one. The only way to actually reduce the sugar (not starch, as it won't lower with soaking) is to soak.

Iron at 267ppm is higher than needed but is a number that can be balanced to. Part of the higher iron may be on the surface of the hay, which can be lowered by shaking out the hay before feeding it. To know how much that may help, you'd need to test some of it after shaking. Surface iron will also rinse off (not soak) but that means you will need to rinse all of it before feeding then retest after the rinsing to see what the new result would be.

Although it's a pain, hay can be soaked in freezing temperatures if needed - many of us have done it at one time or another. Horses generally don't mind haysicles.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR

Hello all
I bought some grass hay that I have not had analyzed yes,  will soon . Last year, this hay came in at 11.3 percent sugar, I did not buy it. 
This year there is a hay shortage  so I have to get hay from a few sources. 
I have a hay that is low sugar (6.7) and protein but high iron (267  ppm). Another one that is more balanced from last year that is low sugar.
I am wondering if I can mix the higher sugar one with a lower sugar one to reduce the sugar amount? Or, is the only way to reduce the sugar is to soak it.
We are heading into winter soon, with freezing temperatures and I cannot soak it then.
I can always save it till spring and soak it, if that is my only option.

Thank you 
--
Lamourah Perron 
Queens Bay British Columbia 
Hoof pictures Sept 2021

Hi Everyone!

Does anyone have any chemical analysis on New Country Organics Beet Pulp Pellets? I have been asked about this specifically, and I cannot say if it is safe or not due to no lab testing on it that I have seen.

Thanks!
--

Candice Piraino

Primary Response Team

September 2018, Summerfield, FL

Shark's Case History

Shark's Photo Album 

PHCP Barefoot Trimmer @www.arkhavenfarm.com

 

HI Kathy!

Have you seen the new Sneakers from Easy Care? They might actually be a better fit, if you are still looking for a therapy boot. It has a better breakover than the Clouds, and seems more durable. Sometimes horses have more torque with their footfalls, and twist their boots. Fit is very important as Cass has stated above. It is best to fit your horse after a fresh trim. I just wanted to throw out another option for you to consider.
--

Candice Piraino

Primary Response Team

September 2018, Summerfield, FL

Shark's Case History

Shark's Photo Album 

PHCP Barefoot Trimmer @www.arkhavenfarm.com