Date   

Re: How to Store Pergolide Once Blister Foil is opened?

yodatoto@att.net
 

Addendum: I tried fig newtons! Put them in the little glad plastic containers with the pergolide and Equioxx inside them.   My horse figured out there will pills in the fig newtons after a while, and refused them even as a treat after that.
--
Victoria , Maryland, joined March 2020


Re: Saraphina blood work,help Dr. Kellon

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Just for the record, the low end white cell count and differential wouldn't concern me in an older horse. They are far from dangerously low. On the chemistry screen, triglyceride elevation is from the EMS. Bicarbonate and anion gap data are not reliable unless the sample is freshly tested.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: How to Store Pergolide Once Blister Foil is opened?

yodatoto@att.net
 

Hi,
I have the same issue at a boarding stable.
This is not perfect, but the best I came up with:  I use pergolide capsules. Place that and the Equioxx  tab in a very small mini 4 oz snack size air tight lid plastic containers from Glad , along with other dry supplements.  I add Equine flavor fix for peppermint flavoring.  Sometimes Ive used the powdered greens used in human smoothies, to add flavor.
Not 100% the horse will eat the pills, but most of the time it works. 

Yes, the pill/capsule is exposed to air...but if the boarding stable worker wont do it individually for each horse, this has been the best method for me.
I'm interested to see what others have to say
--
Victoria , Maryland, joined March 2020


Re: Saraphina blood work,help Dr. Kellon

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 
Edited

Hi Cindi,

First, hind gut ulcers is not a real thing - https://wp.me/p2WBdh-Do .  Unless she is/was on bute or another NSAID, this isn't colonic ulcers. If she was on an NSAID with Gastrogard at the same time she is at even higher risk for colonic ulceration.

Is she still on thyroid supplementation? That will cause weight loss, but not poor appetite.  Oral ulcerations from syringing the metformin are another possibility.

If her pergolide dose is the problem, you would have seen it as soon as you increased her dose.  Did you see that?
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: How to Store Pergolide Once Blister Foil is opened?

 

Just an added note.
When the Prascend packaging is opened, the Prascend ‘magically’ turns into the equivalent of compounded pergolide, which many of us use preferentially.  You want to do the best you can to protect it’s activity but the most important part is to get it into the horse all at once.
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Re: Saraphina blood work,help Dr. Kellon

 

Hi Cyndi,

It appears that Saraphina is improving although it might not seem that way with each tube of GastroGard you purchase.  I know we told you earlier about UlcerGard and Abler products which would save you some money.

It would be really helpful if you renamed the documents in your folder of Saraphina’s vet records.  The most recently posted are the ones I expect you would like to have reviewed - the ACTH, which looks super, although it would be nice to know who did the testing, the CBC, which I can’t help with and the equine diagnostic report which is likewise.  If you could rename them to better describe what they are and the date, that would be fantastic.  You can do that by clicking on the box with a pen in it next to the file name in the folder I linked to.  There are some values which are not in the normal range, although not markedly so, and hopefully Dr. Kellon can take a look at them.
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Re: Lame

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Lamourah,

Yes, there is a very good chance this is related to the seasonal ACTH rise which peaks next week. You are the fifth or sixth this week on the group.  See https://drkhorsesense.wordpress.com/2021/09/16/fall-laminitis-risk/ . Check ACTH and insulin, tighten up diet as much as you can.  The ACTH may call for pergolide
but it often is not very effective when started this late.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Hello and lab results question

ashley.symington@...
 

Hi!
By way of a quick intro, my name is Ashley and I live in MA.  I have a 14 year old haflinger mare, Blondie. She is a beautiful spirit, inside and out!  We had our first bout of laminitis in November of 2018.  With vet and trim support, she came through really well and recovered quickly.  We were good until this past late December/early January when another episode occurred.  This one has been a lot harder to get through.  We've made additional dietary adjustments and trimming adjustments.  She is less uncomfortable moving now, so we are slowly working in physical activity.  I just got lab results back yesterday and am looking for any thoughts and suggestions around what course of action to take related to them.  Blondie is currently on a 1mg dose of pergolide, taken in the form of Prascend.  No grain; hay only-diet with minerals supplemented and given in rinsed/soaked beet pulp.  
ACTH: 23.7 pg/mL (reference interval 2-35)
Insulin: 174.07 ulU/mL (reference interval 10-40)
Leptin: 18.67 ng/mL (reference interval 1-10)

I attended the No Laminitis! conference this past summer and have found the resources available through the website very helpful.  I look forward to being able to connect here as well and thanks in advance for your support and insight!
Thanks,
Ashley
--
Ashley S in MA 2021


Re: How to Store Pergolide Once Blister Foil is opened?

Suzanne and Pilgrim
 

Thank you everybody for your ideas and suggestions. Much appreciated.


--
Suzanne and Pilgrim
Joined March 2019
Winnipeg, Manitoba
Canada
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Suzanne%20and%20Pilgrim
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=90935


Re: How to Store Pergolide Once Blister Foil is opened?

ediefr@...
 

I have been concerned about both light and air getting to the tablets, as I try to figure how how to get my barn manager to continue to hand-feed the meds to my horse without him spewing the tablets onto the floor of his stall, which is what happens when she does it with a bit of grain. She doesn’t pay close attention, and he drops at least one pill every other time, which I later find on the floor if I am the one doing his stall. When I mention it, she gets irked at me. He gets 2 Prascend and 1 Equioxx every morning.  

She says that I have to come up with an easy solution for her that doesn’t involve getting the pills out of the foil or the Equioxx bottle herself & that she can easily turn into a tasty treat for him. I found small black Mylar ziplock bags on Amazon that are lightproof and airtight, so I am going to try those for the pills, with a pill pocket treat or a Fig Newton that she can stick them into and give to him. The bags come in different sizes and are reusable, so if I can load the treats myself ahead of time without having the taste of the pills soak into the treat, I will put the treats fully loaded into the bags ahead of time. 

We’ll see how it goes! 

--
EdieFr
Cape Ann, Massachusetts
Joined March 2021


Re: How to Store Pergolide Once Blister Foil is opened?

Tanna
 

I used to do as above. Now I split my pills and set them up in tiny cosmetic containers. 

I got mine from a local dollar store but they look like these if my description doesn't help..
Bekith Cosmetic Containers with lids


--
Tanna 

April 2019, (Yahoo Group member 2008)
Langley, BC, Canada

Tula's Case History 


Re: Updates

Deb Walker
 

Thank you Lavinia. I will share your thoughts with my vet...and based on her response, with my farrier.
--
Deb and Scotty I/R, PPID
Pecatonica Illinois, May 13, 2019
Case History:
 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Deb%20and%20Scotty
Photos:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=90619


Re: Updates

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Deb,

Agree that his soles are thin, so I would recommend keeping him in boots until you can rebuild that depth as moving over anything abrasive will be wearing that already thin sole away.

LF shows some bony rotation, so the heels need to come down a bit while leaving the front half of the foot alone. That means lowering from about mid-foot back while leaving everything ahead of that alone. The result won't be a flat foot from front to back, which is fine. If you try to make it level, you'll be removing material from the area that is already too thin. Then shift the breakover back just a smidge more, as well as taking more of the remaining laminar wedge.

RF needs to have the breakover move back about 10-12 mm. Heels can be lowered a smidge as there is borderline bony column rotation.

The rotation could be why he has become more sore without boots. It would also correlate with the timing of early seasonal rise starting to kick in for the older horses. If possible, it would be a good idea to pull blood work on him now to see if his perg dose is adequate as from the last blood work, things weren't as well controlled as they should have been. I realize his perg dose was raised 1mg after those May 202 results, but that was likely just getting him back to where he should have been at that time and didn't address the 2020 seasonal rise, nor does it appear as if there has been any testing/increase in dose this year. If his ACTH and insulin are still/again not well controlled, he will continue to rotate/sink and he won't be able to increase that sole depth. He'll need more perg, and possibly Metformin to address insulin, to get there.

Sole depth doesn't necessarily increase evenly across the bottom of the foot. Many times, the foot will prioritize areas that are the "neediest" and add depth there, while the rest moves along more slowly. Removing depth from that spot is counter-productive. If Scotty seems to need relief in those raised areas, better to cut some relief into his pads than to remove the material from the sole itself.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


Lame

Lamourah Perron
 

Hello all, 
My mare has been doing quite well till today. This morning she was hobbling so I put her boots on, gave her some CBD's and cal flor. This evenin, she is still really sore, changed out her pads in her boots and gave her previcox for pain. 
I rasped her hoofs on Wednesday,  mo change I'd feed at all. Weather changed to cold and rainy. 
Could this be seasonal rise?

--
Lamourah Perron 
Queens Bay British Columbia 
Hoof pictures Sept 2021


Re: Updates

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Deb,

I'll leave the hoof questions to Lavinia but as far as the owner name of the folder I suspect it's because Paula set your photo album up originally.  Nothing to worry about in that regard.




Re: How to Store Pergolide Once Blister Foil is opened?

Sherry Morse
 

I do the same as Maxine, just fold the tin foil over and then put it in the fridge if it's overnight.  I haven't had any that have been stored longer than that at this point.




Re: New member My Mare Chicy diagnosed with Founder 9/15/2021 at just less than 3 months in foal

Sherry Morse
 




Re: How to Store Pergolide Once Blister Foil is opened?

Maxine McArthur
 

Suzanne, I just put the remainder of the pill back in the foil and fold it over, then put it in a sealed container in the door of the refrigerator. As you are titrating up, it is only for a few days that you'll need to do this. It shouldn't affect the efficacy of the medication very much. I use a pill cutter if I need 1/4, or you can dissolve 1/2 in, say, 10cc of water, and give 5cc each day. Personally, I prefer to use the pill cutter, but you do need a good sharp one so that you don't waste any crumbs of the pill. If you use the dissolve method, you'd keep the remainder in the fridge until the next day.

--
Maxine and Indy (PPID) and Dangles (PPID)

Canberra, Australia 2010
ECIR Primary Response

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Maxine%20and%20Indy%20and%20Dangles 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=933

 


New member My Mare Chicy diagnosed with Founder 9/15/2021 at just less than 3 months in foal

Qhgirl
 

Hello Everyone,

Glad to have found this group through my friend Kim. This is my first experience with founder.  Chicy was a 16 year old maiden mare who was bred on June 26 via AI and had a viable foal at 28 days.  All was going great then suddenly last week she began acting like she was painful all over and limping on her left front.  Several horses in the area are being diagnosed with abscesses and I thought perhaps that was the case. I only allow her on grass 2 hours a day so founder was not even on my mind.  My vet and other local vets in this area are short handed and I asked my vet about what I was seeing (they actually AI'd Chicy) and without seeing her they said it was probably hormones from being in foal and to give her a gram of bute and set up an appointment for the following week which was the earliest they could see her. . The bute seemed to help her out but I did not want to continue after giving 1 gram more than  one time as I did not want to cover up any symptoms at her appointment.  To be honest I thought she had an abscess and I was wrapping her foot with a poultice pad which has worked well for me in the past. When I went to the vet appointment Wednesday they could see she was in a lot of pain and could barely move (which I had explained when I requested the appointment).  Ex rays showed rotation of both front feet with left being the worse (but not through the sole).  She is standing square but having difficulty walking.  Vet suggested it was not a good idea to have a mare in foal with founder and sent me home as he had and emergency C section for another client.

I had a ton of questions and Kim who is in this group made a post on my behalf and Dr Kellon recommended an ultra sound to determine if still a viable foal.  We had the ultra sound today and the determination was made the foal is no longer viable. They could feel the foal but no heartbeat.  They went in 4 different times to be sure. She was given a shot of lutalyce to help abort the foal.  They are coming up with a plan for next week to support her needs regarding the loss of the foal and making sure she is clean and open (may involve more ultra sounds, more lutalyce, lavage and oxytosis). Next week blood will be pulled from Chicy here at the barn to sent via vet for a metabolic panel to Cornell to check for IR and Cushings. She has not been drinking water as usual and was getting dehydrated and the vet gave her 5 liters fluids IV today which seemed to help her out.  She is eating and pooping good.  Not peeing but maybe due to not drinking.  I noticed today she seemed to have drank several gallons this afternoon so hope that is behind us.

With Kim's yesterday assistance I now have switched her fescue hay and Triple Crown Lite to orchard grass soaked and Triple Crown Natural Timothy cubes along with some vitamins and minerals. We have also backed up her toes and put 3 layers of Styrofoam pads on the front feet.  She is confined to the barn with deep shavings. My farrier will be here in the next couple of days to back up her toes a little more and change out the bottom 2 pads.  I will take measurments at that time and order some therapy boots.

So that is it.  The last 2 days have been a crash course in how to take care of a foundered mare.  We are beyond sad to lose the baby and would like more answers on why the baby did not survive and if that could have caused the founder.  I am sure I will have a ton more of questions as time goes on.  At this moment we are in shell shock.  Just want my girl to recover and be pain free.  I can say since having the Styrofoam pads and toes backed up she seems more comfortable on her feet but her body is very sore all over and she seems a little stiff.  Once I get her moving she seems to improve a bit. She did stand in one place in her stall most of yesterday, last night and this morning before going to the vet.  This afternoon she is munching hay in a different area of the barn which tells me she her feet do not hurt as much.. 

I do not have email on my phone where my pictures are.  Is there a way i can post directly with out email?  And a way to post pictures without using email?  All the photos and files I find seem to be for possible admin documentation.  Would like to show ex rays of feet and a picture of my beautiful amazing girl.

Thank you for listening and hoping for some good information to help us move forward and put this behind us.  
--
Janet
Chester SC
09/17/2021


How to Store Pergolide Once Blister Foil is opened?

Suzanne and Pilgrim
 

Hi again,

Any ideas out there how to store the pill once blister is opened? Pill has to be handled 3 times to get 1/4 of the pill. Trying not to lessen its efficacy/potency. 
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