Date   

Re: Lavinia mark up requested on sole pictures please

Maxine McArthur
 

Janet, have you checked the photos section on this group? There are some photos of trims including backing toe. https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/photos

The other thing that may help you while you are waiting for Lavinia’s markups is to check out her comments to other members—most of them will show how to back up a long toe. 
--
Maxine and Indy (PPID) and Dangles (PPID)

Canberra, Australia 2010
ECIR Primary Response

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Maxine%20and%20Indy%20and%20Dangles 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=933

 


Saraphina new hoof photos,help Lavinia

CYNDI CARLSON
 

Hi,
 Philip is coming Wednesday to trim Saraphina.He would like your help if possible Lavinia or should I say your guidance. She is moving around better all the time.  still sore but she is on her feet more than I see her lying down.She has no problem picking her feet up for me but does not hold it up for long so pics can still be difficult. The white on her soles is Artimud,really hard to get it off for pics and I do not want to use a hoof pick so there’s some white Artimud on there. I would appreciate any input.Thank you!
--
Cyndi Carlson in Colorado 2021


Re: Setback: need advice on X-rays

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Joan,

The only way to know if the swimming is helping his insulin levels would be if you knew what it was at some point before you added swimming in and then checking it after swimming has been a regular part of his routine and absolutely nothing else in his management was changed.  Swimming daily (as with any exercise on a regular basis) can probably help lower insulin but a session every other week probably isn't going to necessarily do a whole lot.  What will help is getting an idea of what his current insulin, glucose and ACTH levels are, making sure his diet tightly controlled and getting his trim as optimal as possible.




Re: AVRIO Pharmacy - Change in capsules

Joy V
 

It's ok, I sent an email to see if I can get the correct size adaptor.  Thank you though Laura.

Just want to confirm, the molasses flavoring is not actually molasses, correct?  

Thank you again,
Joy


--
Joy and Willie (EC/IR)
Nevada County, CA - 2019

Case history:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Joy%20and%20Willie
Willie's photo album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=242526


Re: AVRIO Pharmacy - Change in capsules

Laura Risley
 

I’m sorry Joy.  Unfortunately there are some issues with the phones, it’s not just us, but all around.  I’ll call you soon here and if I can’t get through I’ll call with my cell.


On Sep 27, 2021, at 12:23 PM, Joy V <jvenham@...> wrote:

Aaaand  now I can't get a call to go through to Avrio.  One ring and then nothing or a straight busy signal.  This is definitely not a great first impression all around.



--
Joy and Willie (EC/IR)
Nevada County, CA - 2019

Case history:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Joy%20and%20Willie
Willie's photo album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=242526

--
Laura Risley, PharmD
Pharmacist at Avrio Pharmacy (Pet Health division)
Owner of Bo and Sid
Phoenix, AZ 
Joined 2021


Re: Setback: need advice on X-rays

jandchornby@...
 

Thanks everybody. My vet is as sure as he can be that there is no active laminitis and puts the soreness down to his running around without boots. He went out sound and came in dog lame that day. Is it feasible that the long toes and  leverage, combined with lack of support, could have caused rotation on the right and l sinking on the left??  There have been no pulses.  He swam on 5 consecutive days last week up to 500m so wouldn't that strenuous exercise lower insulin levels? It doesn't seem to have affected his comfort levels. He has been on metformin previously when he's had flare ups but again my vet thinks that swimming is the best way to keep insulin levels low. I'll speak to him about blood tests.

Thanks Lavinia, yes please markups would be very useful. I can add pics of his hind feet which have never been shod and never had problems of any sort with.

Joan Hornby
UK North West
December 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=268474 


Re: AVRIO Pharmacy - Change in capsules

Joy V
 

Aaaand  now I can't get a call to go through to Avrio.  One ring and then nothing or a straight busy signal.  This is definitely not a great first impression all around.



--
Joy and Willie (EC/IR)
Nevada County, CA - 2019

Case history:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Joy%20and%20Willie
Willie's photo album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=242526


Re: AVRIO Pharmacy - Change in capsules

Joy V
 

Thanks for your reply Laura.  I'm just nervous to change *anything* because it's taken almost 2 years to get my horse at his current condition.  

Also, the adaptor sent for the bottle to syringe the dose out is too big for the bottle.  There's no way it will fit.  This is frustrating.


--
Joy and Willie (EC/IR)
Nevada County, CA - 2019

Case history:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Joy%20and%20Willie
Willie's photo album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=242526


Re: Setback: need advice on X-rays

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Joan,

Thanks for creating a photo album and adding Ranger's radiographs.

There was no bony column rotation back in Dec 2020 but there was some sinking. The HPAs were broken back, significantly on the RF. The feet did show capsular rotation, which is when the hoof capsule pulls away from its tight attachment to the coffin bone. This can be due just from toes that are being let too far out ahead of where they should be and/or from laminitis. As there is a ski tip on the LF, it's likely the toes have been too long horizontally for some time. Need to fix the trim to address this, which means taking the toes back so the breakover is set where the bony column needs it to be. Sole s were thin and heels were underrun..

The latest rads from 9-2021 showed that the HPA on the RF had improved and that the sole depth on both feet was slightly better. Heels were still underrun.The toes, however, had gotten longer and further ahead of where they needed to be vs. the  6-2021 rads, so were putting leverage on the hoof capsules. Sinking appears to have increased as well. It's possible the post-trim soreness was due to his soles and/or heels being trimmed more than they should have been. Running in the mud could have strained tendons/ligaments so added to his discomfort. As Kirsten mentioned, this is the time of year when an EMS/Ir horse can get into trouble with rising ACTH/insulin numbers due to the seasonal rise effect - in essence, he may be the victim of the "perfect storm" of assaults.

Because the there wan no trim done, his toes are definitely still too far out ahead of where they need to be so agree with you that getting the farrier out to get the trim optimized is a good idea. would suggest pulling the shoes and going back to the padded boots as shoes aren't going to solve this, nor will they solve any possible elevated insulin/ACTH which could be the driving factor(s) underlying his bouts of laminitis. Only way to know if these are a problem is to have blood work run now. Agree with you that getting the farrier out to get the trim optimized is a good idea.

If you want, I can mark-up the rads to help guide the trimming. Would be helpful to see a full set of hoof photos of the hind feet as well:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/wiki/1472

GreenGuard muzzles make us feel better about putting a muzzle on our horses but they do little to prevent the horse from consuming as much grass as it wants to - too may large holes that they can easily get grass thru, esp. if the grass is shorter. Need a sealed muzzle to be effective.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


Re: AVRIO Pharmacy - Change in capsules

Laura Risley
 

Hi Joy!

I'm sorry that I did not update earlier on the change in oil-base and that you weren't told when you placed your order.  I want to reassure you, and the others, that we are indeed using an oil base - MCT (medium-chain trigylceride) oil.  it is the preferred oil here.  The suspension will be white rather than cloudy.  If the particles you are seeing are darkish in color, that is actually the powdered molasses flavoring.  We have ordered an oil-based liquid flavor for the future that will mix better. I took a look at a couple orders in lab and they are mixing well - except for the flavoring settling out - the liquid does appear milky and thinner.   

I hope this helps!  Please let me know if you have other questions!

--
Laura Risley, PharmD
Pharmacist at Avrio Pharmacy (Pet Health division)
Owner of Bo and Sid
Phoenix, AZ 
Joined 2021


Dr Kellon Micro Current

Qhgirl
 

Hello Dr Kellon, 
would it be beneficial to use micro current on Chicy's legs?  I know they must be tired and her rear legs are stocking up at times. I have a small portable machine with leg wraps for horses. Thank you. 
--
Janet and Chicy
Chester SC
09/17/2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Janet%20and%20Chicy
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=268334


Re: Uploaded new x-rays and hoof pics

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Marcy,

Good that she does have access to some turnout.

Although it appears as if the heels need to move back more, lowering them was not correct as that resulted in the palmer angle being lowered - which it didn't need as the bony column was well-aligned in the rads. Now, the HPA will be somewhat broken back.

The toes are what needed to be brought back, which they still need. I tend to agree with the farrier who thought that groove is likely an injury due to its shape; it would have taken a large abscess to create a crack that long and you wouldn't have missed it when it drained.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


Re: AVRIO Pharmacy - Change in capsules

Joy V
 

FYI:  There is also a change in the liquid compounded pergolide now.  The suspension oil is milky and very watery (I thought it was water) and there are visible particles that settle and separate very quickly.  I'm pretty stressed out about this because 1) this change was not mentioned when I called in for my refill, 2) it is extremely concerning how quickly the particles in this settle/separate because what if too many or too little of them end up in each dose?? and mostly 3) this is the rise right now and I REALLY don't want any changes to anything in his routine, let alone the formulation of his medication.  

I called and spoke to a pharmacist and was told it's the exact same RX, which I believe, and that the suspension oil is just different.  This does nothing to diminish my concern about those particles.  It would have been nice to know that they were going to change the suspension oil w/ the change in location. 

I guess I will be testing his ACTH earlier than I had planned to make sure this works.   I am uploading a photo that shows what I mean about the particles in the RX.  

sigh

--
Joy and Willie (EC/IR)
Nevada County, CA - 2019

Case history:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Joy%20and%20Willie
Willie's photo album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=242526


Re: Chicy's 3rd trim in 9 days - Lavinia please help - sole pics uploaded on all fours

Qhgirl
 

Thank you. Is there enough toe left on all 4 feet to just back the toe up a little more? Will this achieve taking the pressure off the toe and give her a better angle with a rocker toe? Can I rocker her heel at all?  I do not know what to do about the flares on her quarters. Any advice?  And I feel her foot is so unbalanced. Can I balance more by removing more at front sides by toes or should I wait on that?
--
Janet and Chicy
Chester SC
09/17/2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Janet%20and%20Chicy
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=268334


Re: Need advice on blood testing rechecks/protocol

liisaacson
 

Thank you, Sherry.

My vet was thinking the seasonal rise (a bit early, but we are far north) was causing the July 27 readings. Are you saying that even during the rise, the boys should be within "normal" range from Cornell?  

Secondly, if you were me, would you just increase both to two tabs now? Would there be a rollback to the current level after the rise? Would i retest ACTH before doing so in December?

Thanks 
Lisa
--
Lisa and Haven, Danny, Courage & Cam
Independence, MN
2015

Haven's case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Lisa%20and%20Haven 

Haven's photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=261155 

Danny's case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Lisa%20and%20Danny
Danny's photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=268488

Courage's case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Lisa%20and%20Courage


Re: Chicy's 3rd trim in 9 days - Lavinia please help - sole pics uploaded on all fours

Qhgirl
 

Farrier has explained his training and options. I do not want to lose him as farriers and vets in my area not taking on née customers. That is why I requested he be here when vet comes. Vet knows I want her barefoot and to use therapy boots. He is okay with that. I need to get vet on board with this trim so he will tell farrier what to do. I am not ready for more ex rays now. This visit is to determine if her foal is still alive with ultrasound and complete trim that will get her on right track. Will have vet back in a couple of weeks for new ex rays to see if any progress made. All I can ask vet to do it take ex rays as if being sent to board certified vets to be read. 

I have limited funds so cannot get new ex rays every week are two. 
--
Janet and Chicy
Chester SC
09/17/2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Janet%20and%20Chicy
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=268334


Re: Story won't eat supplements

Bendhorsetalk@...
 

Thanks! The Stabul1 arrived and she ate it (!)...day 1. It smells a little like maple syrup to me. Considering the alfalfa pellets didn't entice her much, this is a win so far. I wonder if the powder is available from bulk supplements?
--
Shera Felde, Central Oregon, 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Story%20and%20Shera
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=253720


Re: Lavinia mark up requested on sole pictures please

Qhgirl
 

Hi Cindy
Thank you for comments. Chicy has the Cloud EVO wedge pads taped to her feet. She has very thin stretched soles. I am the one who removed the wall Saturday. I  do not think toes are  rolled enough. Trying to find confirmation rasping just point of toes back will achieve the comfort angle discussed in the trim write up. Do not want to take too much. Need to know there is enough there and about how much more toe I can take back. 
--
Janet and Chicy
Chester SC
09/17/2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Janet%20and%20Chicy
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=268334


Re: Lavinia mark up requested on sole pictures please

Qhgirl
 

Thank you Maxine. You are the first person to tell me I have not taken too much. I am thinking I need to take a bit more off point of toe, do you agree? I look forward to your video. I think I figured out what Lavenia meant by standing her on shavings to trim. Foot will still have shavings under it. Makes sense. I am going to buy a cutting board to use or use the shavings trick. But I definitely need to know if I can take a bit more off toe and achieve the comfort she needs. 
--
Janet and Chicy
Chester SC
09/17/2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Janet%20and%20Chicy
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=268334


Re: Lavinia mark up requested on sole pictures please

Qhgirl
 

Lavenia,
I later awake all last night trying to figure out what I have done wrong on her feet. Should I remove more toe or is there enough there to bevel it at all. One member said I have not achieved anything that will make Chicy more comfortable. Desperate for feedback or I am going to look like a fool when I meet with vet and farrier Thursday am. I know you are busy. Tons of members need your help and reaching out. 
--
Janet and Chicy (in foal)
Chester SC
09/17/2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Janet%20and%20Chicy
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=268334

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