Date   

Re: Hemp Hulls and Hearts feed

celestinefarm
 

More info on the Hemp and Heart product from the Stance website. Lists protein content, etc. Also note it says on the analysis that the product may contain trace amounts of THC. 
90-Hemp Hulls and Hearts - November 2019.pdf (stanceequitec.com.au)
Dr.Kellon's 2019 article on hemp products and the inverse ratio of Omega 3-6.
Hemp for Horses | Dr. K's Horse Sense (wordpress.com)
Uckele's excellent primer on what all the different terms mean on CBD products.
Uckele Health & Nutrition Priorities When Buying and Producing a CBD Product | ARTICLES

--
Dawn Wagstaff and Tipperary   

Saline, MI  2003

Tipperary Case History

Juniper Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Dawn%20and%20Juniper/Case%20history%20Juniper.pdf .


Re: Fergus progress weight loss photo

 

Hi, Jennifer,
We can't feed by Mcal alone. It's a good marker BUT Equines require a certain minimum of roughage for digestive health. You're already close to 1.5% of his current weight. Especially with ponies, care is required in calorie restriction for weight loss because of the risk of hyperlipidemia. https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/Hyperlipidemia/Hyperlipidemia%20--%20basic%20info%20by%20Dr.%20Kellon.%20Kellon.pdf 

The way we reduce weight of hay fed is to reduce body weight. So once his current weight drops to 725 pounds, then you can reduce the amount you feed daily to 1.5% of that weight. Slow and steady.
--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse and Diamond Case History Folder                
Cayuse Photos                Diamond Photos


Re: Fergus progress weight loss photo

Jennifer Green
 

I see it! So the new hay is higher 0.95 new vs. 0.89 old which is actually a 6.3% increase in calories. Although at first glance this seems negligible; thinking of it in terms of lbs of hay per day. If his weight is 750 lb and he gets 1.5% of that in hay weight per day or 11.5 lb (+\~), if I reduce that amount 6.3%, it actually is about a pound less…oh boy. 
--
J.Green 
MA, USA
2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Fergus%20Case%20History
CaseHistory@ECIR.groups.io | Album


Re: Fergus progress weight loss photo

 

On Sun, Oct 10, 2021 at 02:55 PM, Jennifer Green wrote:
feel like an idiot asking this, but what value do I look at for calories? 
Calories are calculated as Digestible Energy measured as Mcal/lb on your full hay analyses. One Mcal = 1000 calories. 

On this analysis, DE is .89. So the latest hay analysis does have higher DE of .95. The difference in calories when you're feeding only 12 pounds a day isn't very much. Just keep it in the back of your mind when you check Fergus' body condition in a couple or 4 weeks.
 
--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse and Diamond Case History Folder                
Cayuse Photos                Diamond Photos


Re: Chicy (in foal) and Triple Crown

Qhgirl
 

I have 4 near me and non sell hay. I found some nice hay this weekend. Getting tested. 
--
Janet and Chicy
Chester SC
09/17/2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Janet%20and%20Chicy
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=268334


Re: Chicy (in foal) and Triple Crown, hay and bloodwork

Qhgirl
 

I found some pretty Timothy/ orchard and am sending off to be tested today. Praying it will be below 6% sugar + starch.
Also pulled blood for Cornell testing and vet is sending to Cornell today. Hoping for answers real soon. 
--
Janet and Chicy
Chester SC
09/17/2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Janet%20and%20Chicy
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=268334


forgot a few terms. getting old

LJ Friedman
 

euro thyroid sick syndrome is often confused as what other condition ??  
when a horse has an illness that just can't be well controlled with meds etc, we describe the illness as what?  thanks 
--
LJ Friedman  Nov 2014 Vista,   Northern  San Diego, CA

Jesse( over the rainbow) and majestic ‘s Case History 
Jesse's Photos

 


Re: Hemp Hulls and Hearts feed

Nancy C
 
Edited

Hi Rita

So glad to hear about Stetson. Hemp in general is inverted in the Omega 3-6-9 category with Omega 6 overwhelming Omega 3. I would want to take a look at how much of each is in your half-cup to see if the Omegas in my flax are being overwhelmed.  You could write to the company and ask for their analysis of Omegas to figure this out. You will probably hear from them that inverted Omegas are not a problem.

Feedipedia shows a 2:5 ratio between Omega 3 and 6 in the seed.  We are looking for 4:1 as supplied in flax.  https://www.feedipedia.org/node/50

Don't know about the hulls with some seed still attached, but I would say it is likely inverted however, I can be educated.  If you want to geek out here's a handy comparison chart for a variety of high fat foods used for horses

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/5%20Core%20Diet/Omega%203%20and%20Omega%206/FlaxBOSSpeasCHIAhemp.pdf

I would not use this as a feed for sure. If Dr Gustafson (KFG) is around, hope she will weigh in if needed.  She does her work in Omegas in humans.

Hope this helps.

--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2020-2021

Recordings of the 2021 NO Laminitis! Conference released to attendees 09.03.21.
Veterinary Professional CE certification hours submitted to AAVSB Race 09.08.21


Re: Saddie New metabolic panel, CBC, chemistry, and triglycerides, Dr. Kellon please review

dr.kellylear@...
 


Re: Chicy (in foal) and Triple Crown

 

If you have a Tractor Supply nearby, do they not sell hay?  Coastal Bermuda might be your best bet.  If you are not sure of the S/S content, soak it.
--
Jean and Amber (over the bridge)

Nikki (EC) and Buster (IR)

South Carolina

August 2004

NRCPlus 0412; CIR 0813, 1211; NAT 0612

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Gloria%20and%20Amber


Hemp Hulls and Hearts feed

Rita Chavez
 

https://stanceequitec.com.au/product/hemp-hulls-and-hearts

My local feed/hay supplier carries Stance Equine products and gave me small sample bag of Stance’s new Hemp Hulls & Hearts feed. They’re looking for feedback and want to carry this product. It looks good and crunchy and smells tasty like granola. I gave Stetson a little handful to try as a treat and he loved it. He licked his lips for 10 minutes after that one bite. It supplies Omega 3-6-9 and vit. E as well as more proteins. It’s pricey, though, and I wouldn’t give it as a feed because I’m afraid of the total calories. But would this be acceptable as a topper (1/2 cup) to add to each meal? 

Stetson has just passed his 4-month mark in IR recovery. He’s acting and moving normal. I weight tape him once a month to keep track and he’s right at 1,000 pounds. I see ribs when he moves. But his topline has completely melted away and I’m a bit concerned about his muscling since dropping the alfalfa hay off his diet. Hence my question for adding protein back to his diet. I haven’t started riding yet and won’t until 9 month xrays in March confirm his feet are completely recovered. 
--
Rita C. and Stetson (2001 Tennessee Walking Horse/Gelding, diagnosed IR)
Aiken, South Carolina USA
June 2021

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=265166 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Rita%20C.%20and%20Stetson


Re: Saddie New metabolic panel, CBC, chemistry, and triglycerides, Dr. Kellon please review

dr.kellylear@...
 

And I don’t know how to fix it. This is very sad.  Thank you for reviewing this for me. 
--

 

Kelly Lear in Texas 2021

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kelly%20and%20Saddie

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=267371


Re: Coopers recessed frogs

Nancy C
 

Hi Deb

You've gotten a good welcome from Martha with lots of info.  Agree with Lorna that starting your CH is a good idea. We could be working on diet for example while waiting for rads and pictures. Just sent you the intro info for starting your CH.

In the experience of a lot of members, the wedge that supports the frog in the Soft Rides is too much for the frog.  Soft Rides are a good boot, but many horses do not need the wedge and cutting that from the pad will help.  The frog does not like continuous support. I agree airing his feet out by removing his boots for some period of time, is a good idea if he is comfortable enough to do. Let me tell you how much time is appropriate.

Working on keeping insulin low is key to avoiding laminitis. The trim is key to keeping him comfortable and in keep the foot healthy in the long term. Trim irregularities can also add to disappearing frogs. Getting really good pictures as Martha outlined, can help us help you. Takes practice but it is worth the effort.


--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2020-2021

Recordings of the 2021 NO Laminitis! Conference released to attendees 09.03.21.
Veterinary Professional CE certification hours submitted to AAVSB Race 09.08.21


Re: Fergus progress weight loss photo

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Jennifer,

You're doing just fine! Exercise is the best thing for them. Weight plateaus happen for horses too - not that he's actually fat. Just be patient.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Coopers recessed frogs

 

Hi Deb,
Welcome to the ECIR group!  Your first post here has triggered this general welcome.  The reading material included will offer lots of good information about the group and material to help you help your horse.  There are also many links with more info.  It sounds like you are fairly familiar with our workings but I find there is always more to learn.

It appears that 1 mg of Prascend did a great job of getting Cooper’s ACTH down and decreased his insulin as well.  The insulin remains high enough that he needs to be considered IR, not at all unusual for a Welsh Cob.  This means paying special attention to DDT/E or diagnosis, diet, trim and exercise.  Be sure to include plenty of diet details in his case history so we can offer guidance there.

With respect to his feet, including his frogs and general trim, we would like to see photos.  Generally, we recommend removing the boots for an hour daily to let the boots and feet air out a bit.  I’m not sure whether the lack of your doing that has caused the frog issues to develop but photos will better inform us.  Here’s a collection of pieces on how to get good hoof photos.  It’s in the Wiki on this Main page here, where you will find other important and useful details.
 

Now, on to the reading material.

Welcome to the group! 

The ECIR Group provides the best, most up to date information on Cushing's (PPID) and Equine Metabolic Syndrome (EMS)/Insulin Resistance (IR). Please explore our website where you'll find tons of great information that will help you to quickly understand the main things you need to know to start helping your horse. Also open any of the links below (in blue font) for more information/instructions that will save you time.

Have you started your Case History? If you haven't done so yet, please join our case history sub-group. We appreciate you following the uploading instructions so your folder is properly set up with the documents inside. Go to this CH message with info on how to use various devices and forms. If you have any trouble, just post a message to let us know where you are stuck. 

Orienting information, such as how the different ECIR sections relate to each other, message etiquettewhat goes where and many how-to pages are in the Wiki. There is also an FAQs on our website that will help answer the most common and important questions new members have. 

Below is a general summary of our DDT/E philosophy which is short for Diagnosis, Diet, Trim and Exercise.

 

DIAGNOSIS: There are two conditions dealt with here: Cushings (PPID) and Equine Metabolic Syndrome (EMS)/Insulin Resistance (IR). These are two separate issues that share some overlapping symptoms. An equine may be either PPID or EMS/IR, neither or both. While increasing age is the greatest risk factor for developing PPID, IR can appear at any age and may have a genetic component. Blood work is used for diagnosis as well as monitoring the level of control of each.

PPID is diagnosed using the Endogenous ACTH test, while EMS/IR is diagnosed by testing non-fasting insulin and glucose.

The fat-derived hormone leptin is also usually abnormally elevated in insulin resistance but because there are many other things which can lower or increase leptin ECIR is not recommending routine testing for this hormone. Leptin is the hormone that says "stop eating". 

In Europe, adiponectin is tested instead of leptin. Adiponectin helps regulate glucose and fat burning, and maintain insulin sensitivity. Low levels are associated with EMS. It has come to be preferred over leptin because it is not influenced by things like weight or exercise, and also because it was the only factor other than insulin levels that predicted laminitis risk

*Before calling your vet to draw blood for tests, we suggest saving time and wasted money by reading these details and then sharing them with your vet so that everyone is on the same page regarding correct testing and protocols.

*Please remember to request copies of the results of all the tests done rather than just relying on verbal information. Your vet should be able to email these to you. If you have previous test results, please include those as well. All should go in your CH, but if you are having any trouble with the CH, just post in the messages for now. 

Treatment: EMS is a metabolic type - not a disease - that is managed with a low sugar+starch diet and exercise (as able). The super-efficient easy keeper type breeds such as minis, ponies, Morgans, Arabs, Rockies are some of the classic examples. PPID is a progressive disease that is treated with the medication pergolide. Some, but not all, individuals may experience a temporary loss of appetite, lethargy and/or depression when first starting the medication. To avoid this "pergolide veil" (scroll down for side effects), we recommend weaning onto the drug slowly and the use of the product APF. The best long term results are seen when the ACTH is maintained in the middle of the normal range at all times, including during the annual seasonal rise. To accomplish this, the amount of medication may need to increase over time. Neither condition is ever "cured", only properly controlled for the remainder of the equine's life. If your partner is both PPID and IR then both medication and diet management will be needed. 

DIET: Almost all commercial feeds are not suitable - no matter what it says on the bag. Please see the International Safe Feeds List for the safest suggestions.

No hay is "safe" until proven so by chemical analysis. The diet that works for IR is:

  • low carb (less than 10% sugar+starch)
  • low fat (4% or less) 
  • mineral balanced  

We use grass hay, tested to be under 10% ESC + starch, with minerals added to balance the excesses and deficiencies in the hay, plus salt, and to replace the fragile ingredients that are lost when grass is cured into hay, we add ground flax seed and Vitamin E. This diet is crucial for an EMS/IR horse, but also supports the delicate immune system of a PPID horse. 

*Until you can get your hay tested and balanced we recommend that you soak your hay and use the emergency diet (scroll down for it).  The emergency diet is not intended for long term use, but addresses some of the most common major deficiencies. Testing your hay and getting the minerals balanced to its excesses and deficiencies is the best way to feed any equine (look under the Hay Balancing file if you want professional help balancing). If you absolutely cannot test your hay and balance the minerals to it, or would like to use a "stop gap" product until you get your hay balanced, here's a list of "acceptable" ration balancers

There is a lot of helpful information in the start here folder so it is important you read all the documents found there. The emergency diet involves soaking your untested hay for an hour in cold water or 30 minutes in hot water. This removes up to 30% of the sugar content, but no starch. Starch is worse than sugar since it converts 100% to glucose while sugar only converts 50%, so starch causes a bigger insulin spike. Make sure you dump the soaking water where the equine(s) can't get to it. 

What you don't feed on the EMS/IR diet is every bit as, if not more important than, what you do feed! No grass. No grain. No sugary treats, including apples and carrots. No brown/red salt blocks which contain iron (and sometimes molasses) which interferes with mineral balancing, so white salt blocks only. 

No products containing molasses. No bagged feeds with a combined sugar and starch of over 10% or starch over about 4%, or fat over about 4%. Unfortunately, even bagged feeds that say they are designed for IR and/or PPID equines are usually too high in sugar, starch and/or fat. It’s really important to know the actual analysis and not be fooled by a name that says it is suitable for EMS/IR individuals.

We do not recommend feeding alfalfa hay to EMS/IR equines as it makes many of them laminitic. Although it tends to be low in sugar, many times the starch is higher and does not soak out. Additionally, protein and calcium are quite high, which can contribute to sore footedness and make mineral balancing very difficult.

TRIM: A proper trim is toes backed and heels lowered so that the hoof capsule closely hugs and supports the internal structures of the foot. Though important for all equines, it's essential for IR and/or PPID equines to have a proper trim in place since they are at increased risk for laminitis. After any potential triggers are removed from the diet, and in PPID individuals, the ACTH is under control, the realigning trim is often the missing link in getting a laminitic equine comfortable. In general, laminitic hooves require more frequent trim adjustments to maintain the proper alignment so we recommend the use of padded boots rather than fixed appliances (i.e. shoes, clogs), at least during the initial phases of treatment.

Sometimes subclinical laminitis can be misdiagnosed as arthritis, navicular, or a host of other problems as the animal attempts to compensate for sore feet. 

You are encouraged to make an album and post hoof pictures and any radiographs you might have so we can to look to see if you have an optimal trim in place. Read this section of the wiki for how to get a hoof evaluation, what photos are needed, and how to get the best hoof shots and radiographs.

EXERCISEThe best IR buster there is, but only if the equine is comfortable and non-laminitic. An individual that has had laminitis needs 6-9 months of correct realigning trims before any serious exercise can begin. Once the equine is moving around comfortably at liberty, hand walking can begin in long straight lines with no tight turns. Do not force a laminitic individual to move, or allow its other companions to do so. It will begin to move once the pain begins to subside. Resting its fragile feet is needed for healing to take place so if the animal wants to lay down, do not encourage it to get up. Place feed and water where it can be reached easily without having to move any more than necessary. Be extremely careful about movement while using NSAIDs (bute, banamine, previcox, etc.) as it masks pain and encourages more movement than these fragile feet are actually able to withstand. Additionally, NSAIDs (and icing) do not work on metabolic laminitis and long term NSAID use interferes with healing. Therefore, we recommend tapering off NSAIDs after the first week or so of use. If after a week's time your equine's comfort level has not increased, then the cause of the laminitis has not been removed and keeping up the NSAIDs isn't the answer - you need to address the underlying cause.

 

There is lots more information in our files and archived messages and also on our website. It is a lot of information, so take some time to go over it and feel free to ask any questions. If you are feeling overwhelmed, don't worry, you will catch on, and we are always here to help you! Once you have your case history uploaded, we can help you help your equine partner even better.

For members outside North America, there are country specific folders in the files and many international lists in the wiki to help you find local resources.

If you have any technical difficulties, please let us know so we can help you. 

 

--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Re: Saddie New metabolic panel, CBC, chemistry, and triglycerides, Dr. Kellon please review

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Her ACTH isn't likely to come down until after the seasonal rise is over.  The T4 may be partially rapid withdrawal but I'm sure euthyroid sick syndrome is also operating. Triglycerides are released in response to an energy crisis. For example, both endurance racing and fasting cause triglycerides to rise.

The low T4 and moderately elevated triglycerides are secondary to the anorexia and underlying disease, not causing it. She still has neutrophilia and now an absolutely lymphopenia. Markers of inflammation/infection are clearly elevated.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Coopers recessed frogs

Lorna Cane
 

On Mon, Oct 11, 2021 at 07:52 AM, <dgwof@...> wrote:
Im waiting for his second set of xrays to be emailed to me and then I hope to fill in his profile with all his test results.
Hi Deb,

If you have time to fill in as much as you can on the case history form now, it will make it easier for the volunteers to advise you. Seeing the entire picture,as presented in the CH, as opposed to seeing some details in one message, helps a lot.
Then you can add the x-rays to your album when they are available. Make sense?

 
--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


Coopers recessed frogs

dgwof@...
 


--
Debbie Girard/Massachusetts/2021

Hello Everyone, Im new to this group and Ive learned so much already I cant thank you all enough!  My 19 yr. old Welsh Cob gelding was diagnosed with Cushings and elevated Insulin the second week of August.  Im waiting for his second set of xrays to be emailed to me and then I hope to fill in his profile with all his test results. To make him more comfortable he was put into Soft Ride boots with gel inserts the day after his first xrays  and has been wearing them ever since. His feet were always hard and strong with healthy frogs but within one week of wearing the boots inside and outdoors his frogs started to peel a bit and now his frogs have recessed so far they are at least 3/4 in. below his soles...I was told this sometimes happens from wearing boots.He has not been lame since the day I put the boots on but I thought I should take them off  if they were causing a problem with his frogs,  but by the end of the week he became a little ouchy so I had to put them back on. Can anyone advise me how I can help him regrow his frogs at the same time keep him comfortable. Ive had him for 18 years and this is the first time he has had any issues like this.He is kept in and in and out with the door open 24 hrs. a day to a dry lot big enough for him to excercise. Im not even sure if the boots are to blame but if they are should I take them off for a few hours a day and lock him into his stall with deep shavings? Any advice would be greatly appreciated .
Until I get his profile completed these  are his numbers...He is on 1 mg. Prescend and following the ECIR feeding guidelines.
August: ACTH 127....Insulin 143   Leptin 67  Gluclose 95       September ( 1 month after starting 1 mg Prescend)   ACTH 25.2.....Insulin 83  Leptin 67 .....Gluclose 80

Thank you...Deb


Re: Spartan

Cindy Q
 

Hello Wendy

Welcome to the group! 

In our welcome letter below, you can read up on various sections on Diagnosis, Diet, Trim + Exercise (when the horse is comfortable).

Your attachments to the email do not come through to the forum. You can find instructions on joining the case history sub-group below and creating your folder there to upload your case history. Under the Trim section, the last paragraph will link you to creating a photo album for your hoof pictures and xrays.

Under the Diagnosis section, you can read about the Endogenous ACTH test for cushings. We recommend that the ACTH be maintained in the lower to mid range of the normal lab range. This time of the year, since you are in Australia (Southern hemisphere), ACTH should be as low as it gets so anything above the mid normal range I think would indeed be suspicious for Cushings or at least an early case.

Carol is a great source for nutrition and local diet advice in Australia in line with the protocols of this group and I actually also buy minerals from her to ship to me overseas. We also have quite a few Australian members who may be happy to chime in for local knowledge. You are on to a good start. You seem to have information ready, just need to get your Case History folder setup and Photo Album setup to upload your files/ photos. Please let us know if you encounter difficulty.

The ECIR Group provides the best, most up to date information on Cushing's (PPID) and Equine Metabolic Syndrome (EMS)/Insulin Resistance (IR). Please explore our website where you'll find tons of great information that will help you to quickly understand the main things you need to know to start helping your horse. Also open any of the links below (in blue font) for more information/instructions that will save you time.

Have you started your Case History? If you haven't done so yet, please join our case history sub-group. We appreciate you following the uploading instructions so your folder is properly set up with the documents inside. Go to this CH message with info on how to use various devices and forms. If you have any trouble, just post a message to let us know where you are stuck.

Orienting information, such as how the different ECIR sections relate to each other, message etiquettewhat goes where and many how-to pages are in the Wiki. There is also an FAQs on our website that will help answer the most common and important questions new members have. 

Below is a general summary of our DDT/E philosophy which is short for Diagnosis, Diet, Trim and Exercise.

 

DIAGNOSIS: There are two conditions dealt with here: Cushings (PPID) and Equine Metabolic Syndrome (EMS)/Insulin Resistance (IR). These are two separate issues that share some overlapping symptoms. An equine may be either PPID or EMS/IR, neither or both. While increasing age is the greatest risk factor for developing PPID, IR can appear at any age and may have a genetic component. Blood work is used for diagnosis as well as monitoring the level of control of each.

PPID is diagnosed using the Endogenous ACTH test, while EMS/IR is diagnosed by testing non-fasting insulin and glucose.

The fat-derived hormone leptin is also usually abnormally elevated in insulin resistance but because there are many other things which can lower or increase leptin ECIR is not recommending routine testing for this hormone. Leptin is the hormone that says "stop eating".

In Europe, adiponectin is tested instead of leptin. Adiponectin helps regulate glucose and fat burning, and maintain insulin sensitivity. Low levels are associated with EMS. It has come to be preferred over leptin because it is not influenced by things like weight or exercise, and also because it was the only factor other than insulin levels that predicted laminitis risk

*Before calling your vet to draw blood for tests, we suggest saving time and wasted money by reading these details and then sharing them with your vet so that everyone is on the same page regarding correct testing and protocols.

*Please remember to request copies of the results of all the tests done rather than just relying on verbal information. Your vet should be able to email these to you. If you have previous test results, please include those as well. All should go in your CH, but if you are having any trouble with the CH, just post in the messages for now. 

Treatment: EMS is a metabolic type - not a disease - that is managed with a low sugar+starch diet and exercise (as able). The super-efficient easy keeper type breeds such as minis, ponies, Morgans, Arabs, Rockies are some of the classic examples. PPID is a progressive disease that is treated with the medication pergolide. Some, but not all, individuals may experience a temporary loss of appetite, lethargy and/or depression when first starting the medication. To avoid this "pergolide veil" (scroll down for side effects), we recommend weaning onto the drug slowly and the use of the product APF. The best long term results are seen when the ACTH is maintained in the middle of the normal range at all times, including during the annual seasonal rise. To accomplish this, the amount of medication may need to increase over time. Neither condition is ever "cured", only properly controlled for the remainder of the equine's life. If your partner is both PPID and IR then both medication and diet management will be needed. 

DIET: Almost all commercial feeds are not suitable - no matter what it says on the bag. Please see the International Safe Feeds List for the safest suggestions.

No hay is "safe" until proven so by chemical analysis. The diet that works for IR is:

  • low carb (less than 10% sugar+starch)
  • low fat (4% or less) 
  • mineral balanced  

We use grass hay, tested to be under 10% ESC + starch, with minerals added to balance the excesses and deficiencies in the hay, plus salt, and to replace the fragile ingredients that are lost when grass is cured into hay, we add ground flax seed and Vitamin E. This diet is crucial for an EMS/IR horse, but also supports the delicate immune system of a PPID horse. 

*Until you can get your hay tested and balanced we recommend that you soak your hay and use the emergency diet (scroll down for it).  The emergency diet is not intended for long term use, but addresses some of the most common major deficiencies. Testing your hay and getting the minerals balanced to its excesses and deficiencies is the best way to feed any equine (look under the Hay Balancing file if you want professional help balancing). If you absolutely cannot test your hay and balance the minerals to it, or would like to use a "stop gap" product until you get your hay balanced, here's a list of "acceptable" ration balancers

There is a lot of helpful information in the start here folder so it is important you read all the documents found there. The emergency diet involves soaking your untested hay for an hour in cold water or 30 minutes in hot water. This removes up to 30% of the sugar content, but no starch. Starch is worse than sugar since it converts 100% to glucose while sugar only converts 50%, so starch causes a bigger insulin spike. Make sure you dump the soaking water where the equine(s) can't get to it. 

What you don't feed on the EMS/IR diet is every bit as, if not more important than, what you do feed! No grass. No grain. No sugary treats, including apples and carrots. No brown/red salt blocks which contain iron (and sometimes molasses) which interferes with mineral balancing, so white salt blocks only. 

No products containing molasses. No bagged feeds with a combined sugar and starch of over 10% or starch over about 4%, or fat over about 4%. Unfortunately, even bagged feeds that say they are designed for IR and/or PPID equines are usually too high in sugar, starch and/or fat. It’s really important to know the actual analysis and not be fooled by a name that says it is suitable for EMS/IR individuals.

We do not recommend feeding alfalfa hay to EMS/IR equines as it makes many of them laminitic. Although it tends to be low in sugar, many times the starch is higher and does not soak out. Additionally, protein and calcium are quite high, which can contribute to sore footedness and make mineral balancing very difficult.

TRIM: A proper trim is toes backed and heels lowered so that the hoof capsule closely hugs and supports the internal structures of the foot. Though important for all equines, it's essential for IR and/or PPID equines to have a proper trim in place since they are at increased risk for laminitis. After any potential triggers are removed from the diet, and in PPID individuals, the ACTH is under control, the realigning trim is often the missing link in getting a laminitic equine comfortable. In general, laminitic hooves require more frequent trim adjustments to maintain the proper alignment so we recommend the use of padded boots rather than fixed appliances (i.e. shoes, clogs), at least during the initial phases of treatment.

Sometimes subclinical laminitis can be misdiagnosed as arthritis, navicular, or a host of other problems as the animal attempts to compensate for sore feet. 

You are encouraged to make an album and post hoof pictures and any radiographs you might have so we can to look to see if you have an optimal trim in place. Read this section of the wiki for how to get a hoof evaluation, what photos are needed, and how to get the best hoof shots and radiographs.

EXERCISEThe best IR buster there is, but only if the equine is comfortable and non-laminitic. An individual that has had laminitis needs 6-9 months of correct realigning trims before any serious exercise can begin. Once the equine is moving around comfortably at liberty, hand walking can begin in long straight lines with no tight turns. Do not force a laminitic individual to move, or allow its other companions to do so. It will begin to move once the pain begins to subside. Resting its fragile feet is needed for healing to take place so if the animal wants to lay down, do not encourage it to get up. Place feed and water where it can be reached easily without having to move any more than necessary. Be extremely careful about movement while using NSAIDs (bute, banamine, previcox, etc.) as it masks pain and encourages more movement than these fragile feet are actually able to withstand. Additionally, NSAIDs (and icing) do not work on metabolic laminitis and long term NSAID use interferes with healing. Therefore, we recommend tapering off NSAIDs after the first week or so of use. If after a week's time your equine's comfort level has not increased, then the cause of the laminitis has not been removed and keeping up the NSAIDs isn't the answer - you need to address the underlying cause.

 

There is lots more information in our files and archived messages and also on our website. It is a lot of information, so take some time to go over it and feel free to ask any questions. If you are feeling overwhelmed, don't worry, you will catch on, and we are always here to help you! Once you have your case history uploaded, we can help you help your equine partner even better.

For members outside North America, there are country specific folders in the files and many international lists in the wiki to help you find local resources.

If you have any technical difficulties, please let us know so we can help you. 

--
Cindy and Glow (over the rainbow bridge) - Sep 2017, Singapore
ECIR Primary Response


 


Saddie New metabolic panel, CBC, chemistry, and triglycerides, Dr. Kellon please review

dr.kellylear@...
 

Hello, 
We have been struggling to keep Saddie’s triglycerides down despite having 125 mls of 50% dextrose added to every 5 Liter bag of fluid and doing syringe feeding. Her triglycerides tend to fluctuate between 200 to 600. 

Saddie is also having increased sweating, lethargy and cow pie stools. A new metabolic panel was pulled last Monday, 2021-10-04 and the results were received on Friday, 2021-10-08. The metabolic panel, which I have uploaded on Saddie’s case history page and attached the link below shows a lot of irregularities that I believe is perpetuating the elevated triglycerides along with the anorexia and lethargy. I also attached a new CBC, Chemistry, triglycerides value that was taken yesterday. 2021-10-10 which is showing mild low RBC, hypoglycemia, elevated triglycerides, and elevated liver values. 

Saddie is currently on 1 gram of pergolide along with 8 mls of APF. The vet whose care she was under did stop her pergolide a few weeks ago for about 4 days because he felt like that was why she wasn’t eating. He put her on 1/2 tab after that for another 4 days and then increased back to 1 tablet which she has been on for 2 weeks. He also had her on 13 tablets of metoformin twice a day. He also stopped the levothyroxine she had been previously on without properly tapering it down. 

As you can see in her metabolic panel she is very uncontrolled and I am hoping I can be directed on how to get her T4 back up, ACTH down, and triglycerides down. 

I really appreciate all the help!

Kelly 

 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kelly%20and%20Saddie

 

--

 

Kelly Lear in Texas 2021

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kelly%20and%20Saddie

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=267371

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