Date   

Re: Domino and Clover ‘s journey so far!

tilliewillie@...
 

Thank you I think I got it!! I had a ? What can I feed domino since He is on a hay only diet for is vitamin and minerals? He is very picky! 

also what do u think their body scores are?
Thank you 
--

Mikey Richardson in MA 2021 


https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=268987


https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=268990 




Re: Supplement Changes/Sore?

Kathleen Rauchle
 

Good to know.  I did not know that high protein could actually have nitrates and lead to blood flow issues.  I just submitted the samples in for wet chemistry with full trace mineral test and included the nitrates for the small squares.  The first analysis are only NIR. 

I learned so much in a short time.  So as I get results I will post them.

If the Nitrates are too high in the hay what do we do to balance it out or can we balance it out?

Thank you
--
Kathleen R
Central WI 
2020

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kathleen%20and%20Echo

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=252630

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kathleen%20and%20Echo/KATHLEEN_RAUCHLE_top_field_1st_crop_rounds_Mixed_grass_hay_2021-08-27_395849_1264%20%282%29.pdf

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kathleen%20and%20Echo/KATHLEEN_RAUCHLE_2021_2nd_crop_sm.sq.grass_Mixed_grass_hay_2021-08-27_395848_1263%20%282%29.pdf


Switching Prascend dose time

Jeanne Q
 

I am looking for advice to switch my mare's Prascend dose from morning to evening.  Is there anything I need to know before doing this?  I know I read somewhere on here about this but wasnt able to pull it back up.
Thanks

Jeanne Q MN 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jeanne%20&%20Glory
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=241360


Re: Hemp Hulls and Hearts feed

Rita Chavez
 

Thank you, Kirsten. I’m reading through the files and will take a closer look at the whey options from Uckele and Mad Barn. And beginning to think I’m hyper-focused on his topline because for years it was always plumped up - and I thought it looked good and muscled. But it was a layer of fat. Now that he’s at his ideal weight, his entire frame is slimmer than my eyes are accustomed to seeing. Heck, even his butt cheeks. I don’t feel boney spine poking through so there is muscle there. 

I don’t have a hay analysis because my storage for hay is quite small. My hay is delivered every two weeks and although I always order the straight Timothy (3-string 110 lb bales) the source is from many different locations across the US/Canada. It’s beautiful hay, green and leafy. He loves it, so I’m happy. Since he’s reached his ideal body weight he’s now eating 20 lbs each day, soaked & drained 30 minutes in hot water. I do wish hay analysis was something easily provided, because I’d love to stop soaking. 

He has a dental appointment in December, and I was going to ask for blood pull at the same time. I’ve not noticed any reactions to seasonal rise. Even his winter coat seems slower to grow in this year. 
--
Rita C. and Stetson (2001 Tennessee Walking Horse/Gelding, diagnosed IR)
Aiken, South Carolina USA
June 2021

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=265166 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Rita%20C.%20and%20Stetson


Re: Hemp Hulls and Hearts feed

Frances C
 

All hemp products have trace amounts of THC except maybe hemp oil - not a problem!
--
- Frances C.
December 2017, Washington & California
Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Frances%20and%20Phoenix
Phoenix's Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=12382


Re: Test not collected properly caused abn high reading?

Candice Piraino
 

HI Jane,

I can actually tell you a quick personal story of my own! My very own riding gelding never had shown any signs of being PPID ( well before I found ECIR and went down lots of rabbit holes and then started to realize all the little red flags I had missed!) AND had been seen by numerous vets who never mentioned PPID. Well low and behold at a later date he was footsore, had rads completed and had shown some degree of rotation. I then found ECIR and asked an attending vet to test for PPID. The vet was absolutely shocked by his numbers and so was I!!! His numbers were so high off the charts, they never computed! The only pushing of testing was from me wanting to know more and dig deeper.

So I just wanted to share my little story of how it can be different for all horses, and some horses don't "look" PPID or show symptoms and then test VERY high!

If you are concerned about the validity of the test, you might ask your vet to redraw on their own dime since it was their own mistake maybe? They might be reasonable about it, and you might feel reassured about the test results. It couldn't hurt to ask, right?

Glad you here!
--

Candice Piraino

Primary Response Team

September 2018, Summerfield, FL

Shark's Case History

Shark's Photo Album 

PHCP Barefoot Trimmer @www.arkhavenfarm.com

 


Re: Fergus progress weight loss photo

Jennifer Green
 

Hi Dr. Kellon, here’s what I came up with: 

12 lb Hay*** = 11.4 Mcal
1 cup (weighed 5.5 oz) Teff Grass Pellets** = 0.325 Mcal
1.5 carrots* = 0.150 Mcal
2 TBSP fenugreek powder = 0.072 Mcal
Safe Treats* = 1 Mcal
Total ~ 13 Mcal per Day

* = Estimated
** = Info from EquiAnalytical report I found in feed folder
*** = Hay is soaked all meals (not sure that impacts calories much) 
--
J.Green 
MA, USA
2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Fergus%20Case%20History
CaseHistory@ECIR.groups.io | Album


Re: metformin dosage

Mary Kane
 

I started my mare Dawn on metformin three weeks ago. 15 of 1000m pills twice a day. I feed 3 x a day. When my vet came to take blood and xrays after two weeks, he said she should take the metformin 30 minutes before each of the 3 meals she gets, so half again more per day. Is this correct? 
Mary and Dawn

--
Mary Kane
Maple Valley WA
2019


Re: Test not collected properly caused abn high reading?

 

Hi, Jane. 

The safest way to introduce pergolide is slowly. In general, we suggest starting at ¼ mg for 3 days, then ½ mg for 3 days, and continue until you reach your target dose. A common side effect of pergolide is lethargy AND loss of appetite. So if your horse stops eating hay and wanders away, it’s time to slow down the introduction. There’s a File explaining the process.  Many of us have found that APF helps with these side effects that are called the “pergolide veil”. 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/3%20Cushings%20Disease%20-%20PPID/Cushings%20Disease%20Treatments/Pergolide/Pergolide%20101.pdf

One more thing. Handling blood samples for our metabolic horses is fussy and detailed. Mishandled blood samples cost money AND supply bad information. If glucose was “normal” after sitting at 80 degrees for 2 hours, I wouldn’t trust that lab result. If you can manage, repeat labs in a month for ACTH, glucose and insulin would be smart. 
--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse and Diamond Case History Folder                
Cayuse Photos                Diamond Photos


Re: metformin dosage

 

Hi, Vicky. when I used milk of magnesia, it took about 20-30 ml to dissolve that same dose of ground metformin. An important detail is to check insulin labs again quickly, within a week if you can manage. Not all equines respond to metformin. No reason to continue syringing it twice a day if it doesn’t reduce insulin. 
--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse and Diamond Case History Folder                
Cayuse Photos                Diamond Photos


Re: Test not collected properly caused abn high reading?

Jane Hester
 

Thank you! Just hope to get that number down fast! Talked to vet just now—he recommended going straight to full tablet since number is so high. Gave 1/2 tab yesterday and today—will start whole tab tomorrow. He is eating well—just seems a more lethargic than usual. I’m pretty worried about my boy!
--
Jane Hester in NC 2021


Re: Hemp Hulls and Hearts feed

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

You can try seaching our messages for "soybean+meal" and "peas" and "whey".  All are safe options although some horses react to the phytoestrogens in soybean meal so we generally don't recommend it for IR horses.  Field peas (dry round or split peas) are very high in starch but it is in an indigestible form so it is safe, but the amino acid profile is not ideal.  Whey is expensive but a good quality option.  You can also add a supplement to boost the 3 most likely limiting amino acids.  Uckele's Tri-Amino or Mad Barn's 3 Amigos are both examples of a targeted protein supplement.

But first, do you have a hay analysis?  What is the protein in the hay?  It's rare for it to be inadequate if a horse is eating 2% of body weight in hay and is not in work.

Losing topline at this time of year could be a red flag for PPID.  His ACTH in July was fine, but if he is in the early stages of PPID then it might only be elevated during the seasonal rise.  Late Sep or early Oct would be a good time to check baseline ACTH to see if that's the case.  Or you can do a TRH Stim test between December and June.  At his age I would probably check his ACTH annually during the peak of the seasonal rise to catch PPID early if he develops it.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album


Re: Euthanasia within 24 hours

Bobbie Day
 

Oh Amy,

What a agonizing decision this is, I’m sorry your having to go through this, it’s so hard. But I would (also) say if she were mine I would  spoil her, love on her, get those pictures, take some hair before the time comes because you won’t want to do it afterwards. We all know how much you must love her to give her this final gift. I would personally let her have anything and all she wants. Send her on her way with your love and her favorite things.
thinking of you both.
--
Bobbie and Desi (over the rainbow bridge 7/21) 
Utah, Nov 2018
NRC Plus 2020 , NAT , C&IR March 2021


https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Bobbie%20and%20Desi 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78821


Re: Use of Valium for Sedation???

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Valium should be safe based on this file:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/SEDATIVE%20EFFECTS.pdf

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album


Re: Test not collected properly caused abn high reading?

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Not necessarily.  Not all the ACTH is active, and it seems to vary by horse, so some horses have really high ACTH but not a lot of signs, and vice versa.  There are other hormones involved that we don't measure and they can be more active than the ACTH, or not.  Each horse is highly individual.

Yes, it should be refrigerated or put on ice after being pulled, centrifuged within 4 hours, then refrigerated or frozen for shipping.  Having glucose measured every time will usually provide clues if the sample was mishandled because it is the most sensitive.  But a glucose of 97 is perfectly normal so your bloodwork looks reliable. 

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album


Re: Should I test Monte?

Chris Pennbo
 

I did update his file a few months ago but I guess I didn't do it right! I'm having some computer issues right now but managed to pull this info off my phone:

Most recent test 4/20/21   ACTH  45,  Glucose  89,  Insulin 14      (prior to being diagnosed and put on prascend - 9/22/19 ACTH 77, Glucose 90, Insulin 16)

The vet recommended we increase to  1 1/2 tabs and we did but based on his symptoms/appearance after a few months (and multiple abscesses) we increased it to 2 tabs daily in July. 

I will update his files as soon as I get my computer up and running. The reason I ask about testing is that our vet is coming this week but he will not be back again until spring-time so if we need levels I need to get them this week.  I don't THINK we do but there is much more experience here than I have and I wanted to have those who know more review it.

Thank you!
--
-Chris
May, 2019  Big Bear Lake, California
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Chris%20and%20Monte 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=95892  


Re: Test not collected properly caused abn high reading?

Jane Hester
 

Thanks! Not surprised if he does have Cushings but read where blood should
be shaken and kept cool after pulled. So if would be lower in heat, guess that’s not it. Would a horse typically show more symptoms with such a high score?🤔
Jane Hester in NC 2021


Re: Test not collected properly caused abn high reading?

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Hi Jane,

If the sample was degraded the ACTH would be lower, not higher.  Similarly, the insulin and glucose would be lower, too.   But your glucose looks appropriate.  That said, I'm surprised the glucose in a blood sample left out for 2.5 hours wasn't metabolized at least a bit.  It's always possible a sample got mixed up though if the vet had multiple blood pulls that day so if the results really don't fit your horse, then a retest can be done.  We have seen other high readings like yours though, it's not that unusual.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album


Use of Valium for Sedation???

Suzanne and Pilgrim
 

Hi 

Pilgrim will be having a small procedure done and will need sedation. Just checking…. Zylazine/Rompun is a NO and Dormosedan is a NO. Can Valium be used safely on IR/PPID horse?
--


Test not collected properly caused abn high reading?

Jane Hester
 

Been thinking how my horse with minimal PPID symptoms could have result of 995 on ACTH lab results. When the vet drew the blood, he forgot to take it with him. I happened to see in on top of tall cabinet about 2 hours later—so was in warm barn (80 degrees ish) all that time. Called vet as soon as I saw it and after 30 min or so, they asked if I could bring it to clinic. Got it there in 30 min and gave to receptionist. She took it back but don’t know what happened after that. Not sure if it was shaken. Could this be reason for unusually high reading? Thank you for your help!
--
Jane Hester in NC 2021

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