Date   

Re: Blood work and xrays

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Yes, it will be of value.  In early PPID horses that may have normal ACTH outside of the seasonal rise, we will see an exagerated or excessively high ACTH compared to what we know is normal during the seasonal rise.  In Canada it's really hard/expensive to do a TRH Stim test to check for early PPID, so the next best option is to check ACTH during the seasonal rise, preferably late Sept to see the peak ACTH.

If you want to see her ACTH outside of the seasonal rise, test between December and June.  But you don't need a baseline to compare current results against.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album


Hoof pictures posted for mark-ups please

Judy and Bugsy
 

New hoof photos have been posted for Bugsy.  The farrier is coming this weekend to trim and I have been rasping every 2 weeks so hopefully I've been able to keep on top of the growth.  If Lavinia can do mark-ups for me that would be great.

Thanks
--

 

Judy and Bugsy

Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada

Feb. 25, 2020

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Judy%20and%20Bugsy
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=243358

 




Re: Test not collected properly caused abn high reading?

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

His ACTH will be lower on Nov 5 after 3 weeks on 1 mg pergolide, and also because we are now past the peak of the seasonal rise so it's coming down naturally now.  If his insulin was sky high at the last test, too, I would definitely hold off.  But it was not that high with the last bloodwork so I think the risk of vaccines and dewormer triggering laminitis is low.  However, you can definitely hold off until you get his new lab results back, so do what you feel most comfortable doing.  Will your vet leave the vaccine and dewormer with you to give later?  Just make sure you pull blood before anything else is done, including administering any sedatives if needed, and have ice or a fridge to put it in (ice is handy because you can send it with the vet on ice).

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album


Re: ivermectin price increase?

Sharon Manning
 

Lorna and group,
All I have been able to find in my area is the Liquid Ivermectin 1% solution, a Durvet product for swine and cattle. Many years ago I used this product with a mare that could wad up and spit paste out. However, I can not remember how to calculate the dosage. Would some one be so kind as to help me? I would draw it up into a syringe and squirt it into her mouth. Never had anymore deworming problems after that. So, Im thinking with the shortage this is my way. If its 1% would it just be 1mL per 100 lbs BW? On the box it is 1 mL for 110 lbs BW for cattle and 1 mL for 75 lbs BW for swine. Doesn't give the equine or human dose. (lol)
Thanks

Cushing/IR 05

NRC+11/08

NAT 2/09

CIR12/09

DEW 08/10

COH 04/11

BRR 2015

AAL 2015

 

Sharon

E TN

2005


Re: Use of Valium for Sedation???

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Valium is OK but twitching is way underutilized IMO - and misunderstood. https://horseandrider.com/health/how-does-twitching-affect-horses
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: metformin dosage

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

There are some vets using it 3 times a day but there is no good research to show this does any good. Taking metformin on an empty stomach  may improve bioavailabilility but it increases risk of GI side effects in people. Horses rarely have an empty stomach.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Fergus progress weight loss photo

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Assuming he has a very thrifty metabolism, which doesn't seem to be in question, that calorie intake would support a weight of up to about 875 pounds.

Again, don't sweat the numbers or a weight loss plateau, just keep him moving as much as possible.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Test not collected properly caused abn high reading?

Jane Hester
 

Vet wasn’t concerned about handling issue but will retest all on Nov 5 visit. Just started Prascend so need to wait a bit. He is on forage only anti-inflammatory diet for long time—only thing I lack is testing his grass hay at this barn. I’m at boarding barn so source varies. I’ve had other grass hay tested in area and tested good. So much to think about—head is spinning!
--
Jane Hester in NC 2021


Re: Test not collected properly caused abn high reading?

Jane Hester
 

Makes me feel better to know I am not alone. Will have insulin and ACTH retested on next scheduled vet visit Nov 5. Is supposed to get fall shots and deworming on that visit—but thinking I shouldn’t do shots/deworming until is ACTH levels normalize and insulin/glucose re-tested. Especially since he is footsore on hard/gravel. If he is still footsore on Nov 5, will ask for X-rays to assess rotation. Any thought on worming/shots with ACTH so high? Going straight to 1 full Prascend tablet today per vet to get number down faster—wonder if 1 tablet will be enough? Thanks for your help. I’m pretty worried about my boy!
--
Jane Hester in NC 2021


Re: Supplement Changes/Sore?

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

If nitrates are high you can soak it - which wouldn't be a bad idea anyway!

Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Supplement Changes/Sore?

Kathleen Rauchle
 


Re: Domino and Clover ‘s journey so far!

tilliewillie@...
 

Thank you I think I got it!! I had a ? What can I feed domino since He is on a hay only diet for is vitamin and minerals? He is very picky! 

also what do u think their body scores are?
Thank you 
--

Mikey Richardson in MA 2021 


https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=268987


https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=268990 




Re: Supplement Changes/Sore?

Kathleen Rauchle
 

Good to know.  I did not know that high protein could actually have nitrates and lead to blood flow issues.  I just submitted the samples in for wet chemistry with full trace mineral test and included the nitrates for the small squares.  The first analysis are only NIR. 

I learned so much in a short time.  So as I get results I will post them.

If the Nitrates are too high in the hay what do we do to balance it out or can we balance it out?

Thank you
--
Kathleen R
Central WI 
2020

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kathleen%20and%20Echo

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=252630

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kathleen%20and%20Echo/KATHLEEN_RAUCHLE_top_field_1st_crop_rounds_Mixed_grass_hay_2021-08-27_395849_1264%20%282%29.pdf

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kathleen%20and%20Echo/KATHLEEN_RAUCHLE_2021_2nd_crop_sm.sq.grass_Mixed_grass_hay_2021-08-27_395848_1263%20%282%29.pdf


Switching Prascend dose time

Jeanne Q
 

I am looking for advice to switch my mare's Prascend dose from morning to evening.  Is there anything I need to know before doing this?  I know I read somewhere on here about this but wasnt able to pull it back up.
Thanks

Jeanne Q MN 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jeanne%20&%20Glory
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=241360


Re: Hemp Hulls and Hearts feed

Rita Chavez
 

Thank you, Kirsten. I’m reading through the files and will take a closer look at the whey options from Uckele and Mad Barn. And beginning to think I’m hyper-focused on his topline because for years it was always plumped up - and I thought it looked good and muscled. But it was a layer of fat. Now that he’s at his ideal weight, his entire frame is slimmer than my eyes are accustomed to seeing. Heck, even his butt cheeks. I don’t feel boney spine poking through so there is muscle there. 

I don’t have a hay analysis because my storage for hay is quite small. My hay is delivered every two weeks and although I always order the straight Timothy (3-string 110 lb bales) the source is from many different locations across the US/Canada. It’s beautiful hay, green and leafy. He loves it, so I’m happy. Since he’s reached his ideal body weight he’s now eating 20 lbs each day, soaked & drained 30 minutes in hot water. I do wish hay analysis was something easily provided, because I’d love to stop soaking. 

He has a dental appointment in December, and I was going to ask for blood pull at the same time. I’ve not noticed any reactions to seasonal rise. Even his winter coat seems slower to grow in this year. 
--
Rita C. and Stetson (2001 Tennessee Walking Horse/Gelding, diagnosed IR)
Aiken, South Carolina USA
June 2021

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=265166 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Rita%20C.%20and%20Stetson


Re: Hemp Hulls and Hearts feed

Frances C
 

All hemp products have trace amounts of THC except maybe hemp oil - not a problem!
--
- Frances C.
December 2017, Washington & California
Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Frances%20and%20Phoenix
Phoenix's Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=12382


Re: Test not collected properly caused abn high reading?

Candice Piraino
 

HI Jane,

I can actually tell you a quick personal story of my own! My very own riding gelding never had shown any signs of being PPID ( well before I found ECIR and went down lots of rabbit holes and then started to realize all the little red flags I had missed!) AND had been seen by numerous vets who never mentioned PPID. Well low and behold at a later date he was footsore, had rads completed and had shown some degree of rotation. I then found ECIR and asked an attending vet to test for PPID. The vet was absolutely shocked by his numbers and so was I!!! His numbers were so high off the charts, they never computed! The only pushing of testing was from me wanting to know more and dig deeper.

So I just wanted to share my little story of how it can be different for all horses, and some horses don't "look" PPID or show symptoms and then test VERY high!

If you are concerned about the validity of the test, you might ask your vet to redraw on their own dime since it was their own mistake maybe? They might be reasonable about it, and you might feel reassured about the test results. It couldn't hurt to ask, right?

Glad you here!
--

Candice Piraino

Primary Response Team

September 2018, Summerfield, FL

Shark's Case History

Shark's Photo Album 

PHCP Barefoot Trimmer @www.arkhavenfarm.com

 


Re: Fergus progress weight loss photo

Jennifer Green
 

Hi Dr. Kellon, here’s what I came up with: 

12 lb Hay*** = 11.4 Mcal
1 cup (weighed 5.5 oz) Teff Grass Pellets** = 0.325 Mcal
1.5 carrots* = 0.150 Mcal
2 TBSP fenugreek powder = 0.072 Mcal
Safe Treats* = 1 Mcal
Total ~ 13 Mcal per Day

* = Estimated
** = Info from EquiAnalytical report I found in feed folder
*** = Hay is soaked all meals (not sure that impacts calories much) 
--
J.Green 
MA, USA
2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Fergus%20Case%20History
CaseHistory@ECIR.groups.io | Album


Re: metformin dosage

Mary Kane
 

I started my mare Dawn on metformin three weeks ago. 15 of 1000m pills twice a day. I feed 3 x a day. When my vet came to take blood and xrays after two weeks, he said she should take the metformin 30 minutes before each of the 3 meals she gets, so half again more per day. Is this correct? 
Mary and Dawn

--
Mary Kane
Maple Valley WA
2019


Re: Test not collected properly caused abn high reading?

 

Hi, Jane. 

The safest way to introduce pergolide is slowly. In general, we suggest starting at ¼ mg for 3 days, then ½ mg for 3 days, and continue until you reach your target dose. A common side effect of pergolide is lethargy AND loss of appetite. So if your horse stops eating hay and wanders away, it’s time to slow down the introduction. There’s a File explaining the process.  Many of us have found that APF helps with these side effects that are called the “pergolide veil”. 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/3%20Cushings%20Disease%20-%20PPID/Cushings%20Disease%20Treatments/Pergolide/Pergolide%20101.pdf

One more thing. Handling blood samples for our metabolic horses is fussy and detailed. Mishandled blood samples cost money AND supply bad information. If glucose was “normal” after sitting at 80 degrees for 2 hours, I wouldn’t trust that lab result. If you can manage, repeat labs in a month for ACTH, glucose and insulin would be smart. 
--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse and Diamond Case History Folder                
Cayuse Photos                Diamond Photos

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