Date   

Re: Vinnie and Invokana update 9/2021

Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 

One more video update. Tonight Vinnie was quite determined that it was all about him and to not let me lunge Summer :) lol

https://youtu.be/7XDM-OvW_GY

--
Nancy and Vinnie and Summer
Oakley, Ca
Joined Nov 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245855

Summer
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie/Summer 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=249104


Re: Compounded pergolide dosage form

Deb Walker
 

Highly recommend Pet Health Pharmacy. They are the best to work with. I get 60/days at a time.
--
Deb and Scotty I/R, PPID
Pecatonica Illinois, May 13, 2019
Case History:
 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Deb%20and%20Scotty
Photos:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=90619


Re: Hay analysis question - teff or grass blend best?

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Makendra,

You want to look at the As Fed column, not the Dry Matter for the numbers. In spite of what EA is telling you, we have had numerous members test hay samples via both NIR and wet chem and the results can vary by as much as 30%. That's not a "few degrees of variation" and can be extremely relevant for the ESC+starch levels for an IR individual. Furthermore, NFTA - the accrediting organization for forage testing - does not recognize NIR as a valid method to use for testing ESC+starch.

Potassium is always high in hay, just ignore it. The Equine Blend is really low iron - actually bordering on too low; high manganese; inverted calcium to phosphorus; ESC+starch 6.1% but could be as much as 30% higher. Teff iron is higher but quite workable; higher manganese; ESC+starch 3%, but could be up to 30% higher. Both have protein on the lower side of acceptable.

It would make the most sense if you contact one of the balancers to discuss the situation as you are feeding a number of individuals:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/6%20Diet%20Balancing/HAY%20BALANCING-1.pdf

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


Re: Chicy (in foal) out of stall first time in 5 weeks

Qhgirl
 

Hives are back!  Last dose of Benadryl was yesterday AM (administered before I saw Dr Kellon's message to stop Benadryl).

--
Janet and Chicy
Chester SC
09/17/2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Janet%20and%20Chicy
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=268334


Re: LmF low carb complete issues

Katherine Reid
 

Nancy, I agree on the quality.  It has gotten dusty.  Also, one bag I bought was obviously not real fresh, I had to work around some areas that had powdered out (no mold or anything like that).

On the other hand, it’s the only “safe” feed I’ve found that both my Cushings horses will reliably eat.  And I’ve tried them all!

Lavinia, thanks for fixing me up.  It’s good to have friends
--
Katie Reid
Ramona, CA
Member since 2004


Re: Reoccurring Hoof Abscess Help

millionairess1989
 

Dr Kellon, Laviania and Michele,

Thanks very much for the replies. I'll work on hoof photos tomorrow. My farrier is due out in 2 weeks and I'll see about moving that appointment up. He's commented that we can't get Mill to grow any heel and she's been like that forever.

I don't know that she will eat a pound of flax divided into 2 feedings. Would split peas be appropriate and how much would I need to feed?

Does she need regular Phyto-Quench or the pellet formula with Devil's Claw?

I'll get some Numotizine ordered. Is it harmful to use if there isn't an abscess brewing and Mill is just tender-footed?? 

I'm extremely grateful to Dr. Kellon, this group and the members for helping me take the best care of Mill that I can! It's hard to believe that almost 12 years have passed since her PPID diagnosis.

--
Jennifer in Middle TN  2010
 Mill 32 yrs Arabian-PPID, IR & Pacemaker Dependent
Jack 22 yrs TN Walker- IR & RAO

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jennifer%20and%20Millionairess

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=831

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jennifer%20and%20Jack-TN%20Walker


Re: Reoccurring Hoof Abscess Help

Michele Goldberg <ladipus@...>
 

When my horse kept having re occurring hoof abscesses all last summer we took him to the vet clinic where a CT scan revealed a Keratoma.


--
Michele Goldberg
Bernville, Pa
joined 5/19/2016


Re: New and pretty lost

Sue Ring
 

Hi Diane,

Please know you are not alone.  SO many different horses and the people that love them right here, all willing to share, and you are bound to get answers to even your most seemingly difficult questions!!  My PPID 20-yr-old TBred had some difficulty with Pergolide increases, at first, including lethargy and inappetence.  The adaptogen product APF manufactured by Auburn Labs helped immensely, and I still am giving it to him regularly....it works well for him when paired with the Pergolide.  Lots of information on the product if you just do a search. 

It won't take long for you to get your mare back on the road to feeling good......all good wishes, for you and her!!!
--
Sue R in NC 2021

CASE HISTORY:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sue%20and%20Shifty

PHOTO FILES: 


 


Hay analysis question - teff or grass blend best?

Makendra Silverman - NS
 


New question, I have finally found pre-tested low-sugar hay. I have uploaded both to our file under potential hays.

"Late season Teff" with ESC 2.4 and starch 0.9, iron 71 mg/lb and protein 8.5%, potassium seems high at 10.25 g/lb. 

"Equine Blend" which has ESC 6.3 and starch 0.2, iron 20 mg/lb and protein 7.9%, potassium even higher at 13.99 g/lb.

*These tests were both done NIR for sugars and wet chem for minerals. Also of note: talked to Equi-Analytical and they said they use wet chem and NIR to check against one another and there is only a few degrees of variation at most. 

In reading about teff on past threads it seems there are pros and cons. I could get both hays and mix or just one. Protein is below what has been recommended to me (10-11%) for Arrow in moderate work. However I think with two mustangs (just adopted a new guy who is very slightly overweight) and two wild burros (at ideal body weights), lower protein and lower sugar might mean they could eat more? Also three goats who push in where they can despite having their own free choice hay away from the horses. I struggle to feed everyone without separating them and then the movement is much reduced. My ideal would be to feed a hay they can have more of and eat together most meals so they can move around and relax a bit more about food rather than inhaling from slow-feeders.

I am able to take Arrow for longer rides now and she is feeling good although still creastier than I want. However I think new hay and then being able to balance minerals properly to it will be a good game changer. Thank you ever so much for all the support. Hope to take the NRC class next year. Also will update trim photos after her trim next week. She still struggles with some thrush and deeper central sulcus in the front than I would like.

A belated THANK YOU Sherry and Lavinia for your replies and help. I've sold the bad rained on brome hay (purchased before testing, will try not to have to do that again). Dropping Arrow down to 17lb of hay plus about a 1/4 pound in timothy pellets to eat supplements in has helped. Thank you, I was surprised how much it did help. I just picked up more Speedi-Beet as well as that seems to be better for her than the timothy pellets. Flax seems to bother her and so I have more chia seeds coming. I will look up in past posts on how much to feed. 

THANK YOU!
--
Makendra and Arrow
Denver Colorado, 2021
Arrow's Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Makendra%20and%20Arrow
Arrow's  Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=262625


Re: Reoccurring Hoof Abscess Help

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Numotizine is also my choice, and has been for 40 years, but it doesn't turn pink, it is pink when you apply it. It turns dark in areas where there has been drainage.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Reoccurring Hoof Abscess Help

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Jennifer,

 Her metabolic status and other blood work are remarkably good too!

Let's start with possible contributing factors. Even without PPID, immunity wanes with age and I think this is part of the problem. Her 8 lbs of pellets could be upsetting the mineral balance in her diet, which weakens the laminar connections and immune responses. I suspect the biggest factor of all is that toe, which may not be back far enough yet.  The long toe pulls on the laminae causing breaks that are an open invitation for infection. The toes are also the reason she has so much sinking and flat feet.

Jiaogulan can help speed up resolution but I wouldn't use it daily until the feet are corrected. I would get her pellets analyzed and/or ask the company for a typical analysis so you  have some idea of the mineral issues involved.  She can probably also use more protein in her diet.  The safest way is to increase her flax to 1 lb/day.  Phyto-Quench would be safe for her.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Looking for Devil’s Claw in Canada

Laura H
 

Herbs for Horses :) 
--
Laura Heit - Ontario 2021


Re: Reoccurring Hoof Abscess Help

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 
Edited

Hi Jennifer,

For abscesses, the best thing to do is get them to drain as quickly as possible. Anything you use to control pain will slow the maturation of the abscess, making it last longer or even go "dormant" without draining. Once you stop the med, it becomes active again. Becomes a never-ending circle. Numotizine is a good poultice and it has the added bonus that it changes color where there is drainage.

From the rads, her toe was really long and sole a bit thin. In the full body shot, all of her toes were long, with underrun heels and broken back HPAs. That will contribute to thinning in her soles, which can lead to recurrent abscesses as there isn't enough protection for her solar corium from the ground when her soles are too thin.Really need to see a full set of hoof photos to be able to comment on the overall trim and what can be done to help optimize it. Here's what I need:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/wiki/1472

Camera on the ground for the lateral, dorsal shots and please include part of the cannon bone in the laterals.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


Reoccurring Hoof Abscess Help

millionairess1989
 

This year Mill has suffered from at least 4 probable hoof abscesses, 3 in the last 3 months. I know of 2 for sure and 3 of the episodes were in her right front hoof, 1 the left front.

She starts limping and then her leg may be swollen for several days, sometimes up to her knee. One was confirmed by a vet and another I saw the hole from the draining abscess.

Mill is barefoot and turned out in a paddock 24 hours a day unless weather is inclement. She has been trimmed every 6 weeks. The x-ray in her case history was during one abscessing event and my farrier has been taking her shorter since. She has been on Uckele Hoof Complex since July 2020 to help the reoccurring quarter crack on her right front hoof.

I don't know if the quarter crack issue is what's causing these episodes or what else might be going on. Currently I have a applied an epsom salt  poultice that was the only thing I could find when one started, along with a duct tape and vet wrap bandage (which may or may not stay on :( 
 https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/durvet-epsom-salt-flow-gel-20-oz?cm_vc=-10005

What can I do to prevent and treat them?
Are poultices helpful and if so, which one is best?
What can I do for pain relief? Would there be any benefit to other supplements (such as Devil's Claw, Phyto-quench, Laminox or anything else) that are safe for her 3rd degree heart block?

Aside from the hoof issues, I think she looks remarkable for being 32 3/4 years old and on her third life (if she were a cat)!

Any assistance is greatly appreciated!
--
Jennifer in Middle TN  2010
 Mill 32 yrs Arabian-PPID, IR & Pacemaker Dependent-3rd degree heart block
Jack 22 yrs TN Walker- IR & RAO

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jennifer%20and%20Millionairess

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=831

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jennifer%20and%20Jack-TN%20Walker


Re: Timing for dosing other than Pergolide

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Linda,

Which antihistamine and for what reason? Generally, it's not a problem to combine perg with the antihistamine.

If a med is prescribed to be administered 2x/per day, you want to try to give the doses as close to 12 hours apart as possible.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


Re: Timing for dosing other than Pergolide

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

You can give them together.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Devil’s claw bitters content

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Uckele's Devil's Claw Plus contains other ingredients as well as the devil's claw. They also have plain devil's claw but you need to specifically order that product.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


Timing for dosing other than Pergolide

Starshine Ranch
 

Midnight has been prescribed an antihistamine 2x/day for the first 2 weeks then just once.
I'd like to give her first the dose in the morning and I have always given her Pergolide at 5/pm.
I'd like to give her the second dose of antihistamine at that time but would it be better to wait an hour or two between?
--
Linda in CA  2020  Midnight and Ostara
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Linda%20Midnight%20OStara


Re: Dutch Insulin and Glucose

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Rebecca,

Dosage for Metformin is 30mg/kg, given twice daily.

High glucose means he's crossing the line into actual diabetes, so yes, that would be concerning as it points to his insulin not being able to keep the glucose down into a good range. Definitely want to keep an eye on that.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


Re: Devil’s claw bitters content

Starshine Ranch
 

Oh my!  Thank you for that, Lavinia... I will stick to straight Devil's Claw.
Everyone should know that the first ingredient in Uckele's Devil's Claw is Yucca and it also contains a fair amount of turmeric.
I will throw the remainder out!
--
Linda in CA  2020  Midnight and Ostara
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Linda%20Midnight%20OStara

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