Date   

Re: ODTB cubes available

Valeree Smith
 

Hi Randi,

The cubes are sold already.  

She had been getting them from Fox for a long time but she bought a pallet at a time.  If you wanted to do that, talk to Gentry.  It's a big expense up front but might save you some money.

None of the hay dealers here test hay.  You have to test yourself.  I did it for a long time.  Most of the members send it to Equi Analytical in NY.

I've dealt with PPID and IR for a long time.  So did my friend.  Any questions, feel free to ask.

Is your horse on your  property?

Valeree



On Oct 26, 2021 6:33 AM, shzapsytlin@... wrote:
Hi Valaree,

I live in Acton and I would be interested in purchasing the cubes from your friend.  If she purchased the TCBC at Fox Feed , I’m sure they would take them back, but I could save her that hassle and just pick them up from her.  I’m fairly new to this group and have been trying to figure all of this out and would also love to get in touch with any fellow Southern Californians who have been following the ECIR protocol.  My most challenging issue has been finding a source for tested hay or even a source where I can get hay tested.
--
Randi Cacciatori
Acton, CA
Joined April 2021


--
Valeree Smith
Southern CA
2003


Mild laminitis or abscess?

Jessica Brown
 

What are some ways that you could determine if your horse was having mild laminitis or had an abscess that you couldn’t see?

My horse is noticeably lame at a walk, but she is not three-legged lame. I gave her some bute yesterday evening and she is moving around better this morning. 

I have wrapped her hoof with animalintex poultice, but I would really like to be able to rule out low grade laminitis. 


Do you have any advice how I could tell between the two, preferably without requiring a vet?


Thanks!


Re: New Blood Test Results - Was: TRH Stim Test Results

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Should also mention there is no evidence of laminitis in his radiographs. No sinking, no enlargement of the horn lamellar zone.

Last films are 2 years old but in those he had overlying shortened feet and toes too long. Coffin bone was ground parallel with very little ground clearance. That's more than enough reason to be footy.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: New Blood Test Results - Was: TRH Stim Test Results

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

I agree he's not metabolic.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


New Blood Test Results - Was: TRH Stim Test Results

Techtress
 

So I had my 13yo OTTB gelding tested for 
ACTH, Insulin, Glucose, and Lyme to try and figure out what is causing his laminitic problems on October 8th. There are some other values in the results as my vet insisted the metabolic package was cheaper than the individual tests. I got my results emailed to me today and have posted them in his case history files. I have still not found the time to update his actual case history yet with no computer or internet at home. His diet remains as outlined in my stim test post.

ACTH: 34.8pg/mL
Glucose: 82 mg/dL
Insulin: 9.16 uIU/mL
Lyme: Negative

Calculator:
G/I Ratio: 8.95
RISQI Calculation: 0.33
MIRG Calculation: 5.8

My vet stated that he was not metabolic but to continue what I am doing with my feeding and dry lot to prevent laminitic problems. I am not sure how to interpret the calculator results. He has been a little footy but not enough to call him lame in any one hoof. I was hoping these test results would have some answers for me.

--
Techtress
Louisville, KY
Since 02/14/18
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Diana%20and%20Zorrillo
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=56804


Re: Chicy Coronary Band

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

I was talking about condensation in boots, assuming your boots cover the CB. The most common cause of an opening is abscess drainage. Assuming there's no autoimmune disease, laminitis or selenium toxicity are other causes. It's not from the pregnancy stealing nutrients from the feet, although pregnant mares have special nutritional requirements for both their own and the foal's health and strength. There's no excuse for deficiency problems.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Chicy Coronary Band

Qhgirl
 

Her stall is dry. Gets cleaned 6 times daily. Dry lot is dry too except for 1 early morning rain a couple of days ago. She is now in a stall and no access to dry lot but can go into hallway of barn to visit with other horses in the dry lot at back of barn. 

They look fine today. I had a mare many years ago who was in foal and her coronary band separated from hoof in areas. I was told by my vet at the time ( different part of country than I am now) that he had seen that in other bred mares but it never created any problems. He said the baby utilizes nutrition that normally go to the mares feet so he felt that is what was going on. This was about 30 years ago.  I am sure we know more now than then. 
--
Janet and Chicy
Chester SC
09/17/2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Janet%20and%20Chicy
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=268334


Re: Cabergoline

Johnson, Cathy
 

We have been using Cabergoline on our horse Red for several years.  It is expensive, but no matter what we tried we couldn't get him to consume pergolide.  As far as I know, the injectable form can only be bought from BET Pharmacy in Kentucky.  We pay $500 for 10 mls of fluid, plus $25 for shipping.  We give him 1 ml every 2 weeks which keeps his PPID well under control.  Every horse is different so you might need more or less for your horse.  I am not sure if you can get the pill form of Cabergoline from a compounding pharmacy, but I believe that the pill form needs to be given daily.  There has been information on the list serve regarding the pill form when BET had problems last year getting the drug to make their injectable.
--
Cathy Johnson

Red

Roy, WA

October 12, 2016

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Cathy%20and%20Red


Re: Deep central sulcus thrush

Laura and Ero
 

Deb - I bought it on Amazon

--
Laura and Ero

October 2020 | Erin, WI USA 

Ero Case History

Ero Photo Album


Re: Cabergoline

Erica Reimers <Ereimers90@...>
 

Hi Laura,

I use compounded pergolide, but had previously looked into cabergoline. I found that it would be more expensive to use the cabergoline to manage my cushings gelding. 
It's on the Bet Labs pharmacy website. Please see the link below. If the link doesn't work, then search "cabergoline bet labs" on your internets search engine. It's $250 for a 5ml bottle. 


On Tue, Oct 26, 2021, 5:48 AM <laura.sager@...> wrote:
To anyone on here successfully using Cabergoline from a compounding pharmacy,...Can you tell me what pharmacy you use and what the cost is.  Thanks.
Laura L, NY 2021


--
Erica H CA 2021


ATTN: Randi Cacciatori please read

Candice Piraino
 

Hi Randi!

You had posted for the first time in someone's thread, and we like to send out a welcome letter to all new comers to help them get started. You will find a lot of information here to get started. Please ask any questions you might have or let us know if you have any issues. 

Welcome to the group! 

The ECIR Group provides the best, most up to date information on Cushing's (PPID) and Equine Metabolic Syndrome (EMS)/Insulin Resistance (IR). Please explore our website where you'll find tons of great information that will help you to quickly understand the main things you need to know to start helping your horse. Also open any of the links below (in blue font) for more information/instructions that will save you time.

Have you started your Case History? If you haven't done so yet, please join our case history sub-group. We appreciate you following the uploading instructions so your folder is properly set up with the documents inside. Go to this CH message with info on how to use various devices and forms. If you have any trouble, just post a message to let us know where you are stuck.

Orienting information, such as how the different ECIR sections relate to each other, message etiquettewhat goes where and many how-to pages are in the Wiki. There is also an FAQs on our website that will help answer the most common and important questions new members have. 

Below is a general summary of our DDT/E philosophy which is short for Diagnosis, Diet, Trim and Exercise.

 

DIAGNOSIS: There are two conditions dealt with here: Cushings (PPID) and Equine Metabolic Syndrome (EMS)/Insulin Resistance (IR). These are two separate issues that share some overlapping symptoms. An equine may be either PPID or EMS/IR, neither or both. While increasing age is the greatest risk factor for developing PPID, IR can appear at any age and may have a genetic component. Blood work is used for diagnosis as well as monitoring the level of control of each.

PPID is diagnosed using the Endogenous ACTH test, while EMS/IR is diagnosed by testing non-fasting insulin and glucose.

The fat-derived hormone leptin is also usually abnormally elevated in insulin resistance but because there are many other things which can lower or increase leptin ECIR is not recommending routine testing for this hormone. Leptin is the hormone that says "stop eating".

In Europe, adiponectin is tested instead of leptin. Adiponectin helps regulate glucose and fat burning, and maintain insulin sensitivity. Low levels are associated with EMS. It has come to be preferred over leptin because it is not influenced by things like weight or exercise, and also because it was the only factor other than insulin levels that predicted laminitis risk

*Before calling your vet to draw blood for tests, we suggest saving time and wasted money by reading these details and then sharing them with your vet so that everyone is on the same page regarding correct testing and protocols.

*Please remember to request copies of the results of all the tests done rather than just relying on verbal information. Your vet should be able to email these to you. If you have previous test results, please include those as well. All should go in your CH, but if you are having any trouble with the CH, just post in the messages for now. 

Treatment: EMS is a metabolic type - not a disease - that is managed with a low sugar+starch diet and exercise (as able). The super-efficient easy keeper type breeds such as minis, ponies, Morgans, Arabs, Rockies are some of the classic examples. PPID is a progressive disease that is treated with the medication pergolide. Some, but not all, individuals may experience a temporary loss of appetite, lethargy and/or depression when first starting the medication. To avoid this "pergolide veil" (scroll down for side effects), we recommend weaning onto the drug slowly and the use of the product APF. The best long term results are seen when the ACTH is maintained in the middle of the normal range at all times, including during the annual seasonal rise. To accomplish this, the amount of medication may need to increase over time. Neither condition is ever "cured", only properly controlled for the remainder of the equine's life. If your partner is both PPID and IR then both medication and diet management will be needed. 

DIET: Almost all commercial feeds are not suitable - no matter what it says on the bag. Please see the International Safe Feeds List for the safest suggestions.

No hay is "safe" until proven so by chemical analysis. The diet that works for IR is:

  • low carb (less than 10% sugar+starch)
  • low fat (4% or less) 
  • mineral balanced  

We use grass hay, tested to be under 10% ESC + starch, with minerals added to balance the excesses and deficiencies in the hay, plus salt, and to replace the fragile ingredients that are lost when grass is cured into hay, we add ground flax seed and Vitamin E. This diet is crucial for an EMS/IR horse, but also supports the delicate immune system of a PPID horse. 

*Until you can get your hay tested and balanced we recommend that you soak your hay and use the emergency diet (scroll down for it).  The emergency diet is not intended for long term use, but addresses some of the most common major deficiencies. Testing your hay and getting the minerals balanced to its excesses and deficiencies is the best way to feed any equine (look under the Hay Balancing file if you want professional help balancing). If you absolutely cannot test your hay and balance the minerals to it, or would like to use a "stop gap" product until you get your hay balanced, here's a list of "acceptable" ration balancers

There is a lot of helpful information in the start here folder so it is important you read all the documents found there. The emergency diet involves soaking your untested hay for an hour in cold water or 30 minutes in hot water. This removes up to 30% of the sugar content, but no starch. Starch is worse than sugar since it converts 100% to glucose while sugar only converts 50%, so starch causes a bigger insulin spike. Make sure you dump the soaking water where the equine(s) can't get to it. 

What you don't feed on the EMS/IR diet is every bit as, if not more important than, what you do feed! No grass. No grain. No sugary treats, including apples and carrots. No brown/red salt blocks which contain iron (and sometimes molasses) which interferes with mineral balancing, so white salt blocks only. 

No products containing molasses. No bagged feeds with a combined sugar and starch of over 10% or starch over about 4%, or fat over about 4%. Unfortunately, even bagged feeds that say they are designed for IR and/or PPID equines are usually too high in sugar, starch and/or fat. It’s really important to know the actual analysis and not be fooled by a name that says it is suitable for EMS/IR individuals.

We do not recommend feeding alfalfa hay to EMS/IR equines as it makes many of them laminitic. Although it tends to be low in sugar, many times the starch is higher and does not soak out. Additionally, protein and calcium are quite high, which can contribute to sore footedness and make mineral balancing very difficult.

TRIM: A proper trim is toes backed and heels lowered so that the hoof capsule closely hugs and supports the internal structures of the foot. Though important for all equines, it's essential for IR and/or PPID equines to have a proper trim in place since they are at increased risk for laminitis. After any potential triggers are removed from the diet, and in PPID individuals, the ACTH is under control, the realigning trim is often the missing link in getting a laminitic equine comfortable. In general, laminitic hooves require more frequent trim adjustments to maintain the proper alignment so we recommend the use of padded boots rather than fixed appliances (i.e. shoes, clogs), at least during the initial phases of treatment.

Sometimes subclinical laminitis can be misdiagnosed as arthritis, navicular, or a host of other problems as the animal attempts to compensate for sore feet. 

You are encouraged to make an album and post hoof pictures and any radiographs you might have so we can to look to see if you have an optimal trim in place. Read this section of the wiki for how to get a hoof evaluation, what photos are needed, and how to get the best hoof shots and radiographs.

EXERCISEThe best IR buster there is, but only if the equine is comfortable and non-laminitic. An individual that has had laminitis needs 6-9 months of correct realigning trims before any serious exercise can begin. Once the equine is moving around comfortably at liberty, hand walking can begin in long straight lines with no tight turns. Do not force a laminitic individual to move, or allow its other companions to do so. It will begin to move once the pain begins to subside. Resting its fragile feet is needed for healing to take place so if the animal wants to lay down, do not encourage it to get up. Place feed and water where it can be reached easily without having to move any more than necessary. Be extremely careful about movement while using NSAIDs (bute, banamine, previcox, etc.) as it masks pain and encourages more movement than these fragile feet are actually able to withstand. Additionally, NSAIDs (and icing) do not work on metabolic laminitis and long term NSAID use interferes with healing. Therefore, we recommend tapering off NSAIDs after the first week or so of use. If after a week's time your equine's comfort level has not increased, then the cause of the laminitis has not been removed and keeping up the NSAIDs isn't the answer - you need to address the underlying cause.

 

There is lots more information in our files and archived messages and also on our website. It is a lot of information, so take some time to go over it and feel free to ask any questions. If you are feeling overwhelmed, don't worry, you will catch on, and we are always here to help you! Once you have your case history uploaded, we can help you help your equine partner even better.

For members outside North America, there are country specific folders in the files and many international lists in the wiki to help you find local resources.

If you have any technical difficulties, please let us know so we can help you. 

--

Candice Piraino

Primary Response Team

September 2018, Summerfield, FL

Shark's Case History

Shark's Photo Album 

PHCP Barefoot Trimmer @www.arkhavenfarm.com

 


Any other alternatives to 4Cyte for joint health?

Suzanne and Pilgrim
 

Pilgrim is only 12 years old. He was ridden in a bad frame for consecutive years in foothills.   X-rays show that arthritic changes have happened already.  As a result he is needing injections in both stifles and hocks. We’ve done Irap for those injections.  I had been giving him Mov-Ease prior to injections  but he wasn’t getting enough relief  

Somebody  suggested 4Cyte to maintain the health of his joints  and to hopefully make the time span longer between injections  

I’m waiting for Insulin levels from Guelph sometime this week. His recent PPID is being controlled with 1 Prascend pill daily  

Any suggestions on prevention/maintenance to keep Pilgrim comfortable for the long term?


--


Re: ODTB cubes available

shzapsytlin@...
 

Hi Valaree,

I live in Acton and I would be interested in purchasing the cubes from your friend.  If she purchased the TCBC at Fox Feed , I’m sure they would take them back, but I could save her that hassle and just pick them up from her.  I’m fairly new to this group and have been trying to figure all of this out and would also love to get in touch with any fellow Southern Californians who have been following the ECIR protocol.  My most challenging issue has been finding a source for tested hay or even a source where I can get hay tested.
--
Randi Cacciatori
Acton, CA
Joined April 2021


Re: Chicy Coronary Band

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

It sounds like oversoftening from constant moisture.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Cabergoline

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

The only source for cabergoline was BET labs in KY but I don't see it on their web site anymore. You could try calling https://betlabs.com/ .
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Cabergoline

Laura Sager
 

To anyone on here successfully using Cabergoline from a compounding pharmacy,...Can you tell me what pharmacy you use and what the cost is.  Thanks.
Laura L, NY 2021


Re: New and pretty lost

Joy V
 

Please don't beat yourself up Diane.  My horse likely was PPID/IR for YEARS before he was diagnosed.  He saw 4 different vets over those years and not one of them suggested testing.  You're here now, and this is the place that will help you help your horse.  Hang in there!!  


--
Joy and Willie (EC/IR)
Nevada County, CA - 2019

Case history:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Joy%20and%20Willie
Willie's photo album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=242526


Re: ODTB cubes available

Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 

Hi Valeree,

Just in case there aren't any takers, I believe there is an Arabian Horse Rescue in Mojave that maybe could use it.  It is Love This Horse Equine Rescue.
--
Nancy and Vinnie and Summer
Oakley, Ca
Joined Nov 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245855

Summer
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie/Summer 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=249104


Re: Wanting to start updating file…

Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 

There are programs you can purchase to edit pdf form that are not as expensive as Adobe, but you will have to convert to from pdf format to an editable version or have a pdf editor.

My phone allowed me to download a pdf and "save as"  a .doc file but some formatting was a little skewed.

You can also search your hard drive for the original .doc version that you created prior to saving as a .pdf file.

Hope that helps.
--
Nancy and Vinnie and Summer
Oakley, Ca
Joined Nov 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245855

Summer
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie/Summer 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=249104


Re: New diagnosis pending

Maxine McArthur
 

HI Kelly
My condolences on losing Red, and I'm glad you were able to keep him healthy and pain-free until the end. 

Thank you for uploading Artie's case history--you did a great job! Just one more tiny step to get the link to show as 'live' (in blue), so we can access it with one click. You can do this by going to your 'Subscription' tab, and in the 'signature' box where you entered the link to the case history, position your cursor at the end of the link and either add a space, or hit 'enter'.  Then scroll down to the bottom of the screen and hit 'Save'. That's it. 

We will obviously know more about Artie's condition once you get the blood test results, but in the meantime it won't hurt to treat him as though he has metabolic issues. In a 22 year-old horse not holding weight, PPID is a distinct possibility, and when you add the timing of his laminitis--during October, the height of the seasonal rise--the possibility is even higher. 

Regarding his weight and feed--for the time being, non-molassed beet pulp (rinsed, soaked, rinsed) and soy hulls (soaked) are both safe for IR hhorses and excellent for adding weight (I don't feed them to my good doers in any quantity for that reason). You can then use either (or mix them, which is what I tend to do) as carrier for any supplements he may need. If he is not getting any pasture, you can add up to a couple of cups of ground flaxseed, which is also a good source of protein and calories. Many of us buy whole seeds and grind our own in a coffee/spice grinder. Please also give him salt and Vitamin E (to replace the Vit E lost in hay). For the Vit E, human gel caps (in oil) are relatively cheap and easy to toss in a feed. There are some good tips on feeding in the 'Core Diet' and 'Putting it all Together' folders in the Files. There is also a list of safe commercial feeds here: Safe Bagged Feeds.pdf (groups.io) 

You said that Artie is eating low-starch hay--has this particular hay been tested then? Testing your large bales would not only benefit Artie, but your other horses as well, as then you can put together a custom mineral supplement that will target any deficiencies and probably save you much money (when compared with buying off-the-shelf products that aren't targeted). You might be able to chat with the farmer and get him/her to bring you bales from the same field, so that once you test, you'll have a good idea what is in them. This may change with the next season, but at least you'll know about this year's crop. You're ahead in knowing your hay grower, rather than having to buy hay from various random sources, like many of us. 

If you would like opinions on his hoof rads, you can upload them (preferably with hoof photos also) to a photo album. Instructions here: main@ECIR.groups.io | Wiki
Sensitivity to hoof testers is not a reliable indicator of laminitis. 

Until we get his test results--and please let us know when you do by either adding a message to this thread or starting a new one--for now I'm including below our usual welcome message for new members. As a long-time lurker, you are probably familiar with much of the information in this welcome message, but I urge you to read through it carefully and follow up the links as new information is added frequently; often I find new discoveries upon re-reading. Let us know if you have further questions. 

Hello 

Welcome to the group! 

The ECIR Group provides the best, most up to date information on Cushing's (PPID) and Equine Metabolic Syndrome (EMS)/Insulin Resistance (IR). Please explore our website where you'll find tons of great information that will help you to quickly understand the main things you need to know to start helping your horse. Also open any of the links below (in blue font) for more information/instructions that will save you time.

Have you started your Case History? If you haven't done so yet, please join our case history sub-group. We appreciate you following the uploading instructions so your folder is properly set up with the documents inside. Go to this CH message with info on how to use various devices and forms. If you have any trouble, just post a message to let us know where you are stuck.

Orienting information, such as how the different ECIR sections relate to each other, message etiquettewhat goes where and many how-to pages are in the Wiki. There is also an FAQs on our website that will help answer the most common and important questions new members have. 

Below is a general summary of our DDT/E philosophy which is short for Diagnosis, Diet, Trim and Exercise.

 

DIAGNOSIS: There are two conditions dealt with here: Cushings (PPID) and Equine Metabolic Syndrome (EMS)/Insulin Resistance (IR). These are two separate issues that share some overlapping symptoms. An equine may be either PPID or EMS/IR, neither or both. While increasing age is the greatest risk factor for developing PPID, IR can appear at any age and may have a genetic component. Blood work is used for diagnosis as well as monitoring the level of control of each.

PPID is diagnosed using the Endogenous ACTH test, while EMS/IR is diagnosed by testing non-fasting insulin and glucose.

The fat-derived hormone leptin is also usually abnormally elevated in insulin resistance but because there are many other things which can lower or increase leptin ECIR is not recommending routine testing for this hormone. Leptin is the hormone that says "stop eating".

In Europe, adiponectin is tested instead of leptin. Adiponectin helps regulate glucose and fat burning, and maintain insulin sensitivity. Low levels are associated with EMS. It has come to be preferred over leptin because it is not influenced by things like weight or exercise, and also because it was the only factor other than insulin levels that predicted laminitis risk

*Before calling your vet to draw blood for tests, we suggest saving time and wasted money by reading these details and then sharing them with your vet so that everyone is on the same page regarding correct testing and protocols.

*Please remember to request copies of the results of all the tests done rather than just relying on verbal information. Your vet should be able to email these to you. If you have previous test results, please include those as well. All should go in your CH, but if you are having any trouble with the CH, just post in the messages for now. 

Treatment: EMS is a metabolic type - not a disease - that is managed with a low sugar+starch diet and exercise (as able). The super-efficient easy keeper type breeds such as minis, ponies, Morgans, Arabs, Rockies are some of the classic examples. PPID is a progressive disease that is treated with the medication pergolide. Some, but not all, individuals may experience a temporary loss of appetite, lethargy and/or depression when first starting the medication. To avoid this "pergolide veil" (scroll down for side effects), we recommend weaning onto the drug slowly and the use of the product APF. The best long term results are seen when the ACTH is maintained in the middle of the normal range at all times, including during the annual seasonal rise. To accomplish this, the amount of medication may need to increase over time. Neither condition is ever "cured", only properly controlled for the remainder of the equine's life. If your partner is both PPID and IR then both medication and diet management will be needed. 

DIET: Almost all commercial feeds are not suitable - no matter what it says on the bag. Please see the International Safe Feeds List for the safest suggestions.

No hay is "safe" until proven so by chemical analysis. The diet that works for IR is:

  • low carb (less than 10% sugar+starch)
  • low fat (4% or less) 
  • mineral balanced  

We use grass hay, tested to be under 10% ESC + starch, with minerals added to balance the excesses and deficiencies in the hay, plus salt, and to replace the fragile ingredients that are lost when grass is cured into hay, we add ground flax seed and Vitamin E. This diet is crucial for an EMS/IR horse, but also supports the delicate immune system of a PPID horse. 

*Until you can get your hay tested and balanced we recommend that you soak your hay and use the emergency diet (scroll down for it).  The emergency diet is not intended for long term use, but addresses some of the most common major deficiencies. Testing your hay and getting the minerals balanced to its excesses and deficiencies is the best way to feed any equine (look under the Hay Balancing file if you want professional help balancing). If you absolutely cannot test your hay and balance the minerals to it, or would like to use a "stop gap" product until you get your hay balanced, here's a list of "acceptable" ration balancers

There is a lot of helpful information in the start here folder so it is important you read all the documents found there. The emergency diet involves soaking your untested hay for an hour in cold water or 30 minutes in hot water. This removes up to 30% of the sugar content, but no starch. Starch is worse than sugar since it converts 100% to glucose while sugar only converts 50%, so starch causes a bigger insulin spike. Make sure you dump the soaking water where the equine(s) can't get to it. 

What you don't feed on the EMS/IR diet is every bit as, if not more important than, what you do feed! No grass. No grain. No sugary treats, including apples and carrots. No brown/red salt blocks which contain iron (and sometimes molasses) which interferes with mineral balancing, so white salt blocks only. 

No products containing molasses. No bagged feeds with a combined sugar and starch of over 10% or starch over about 4%, or fat over about 4%. Unfortunately, even bagged feeds that say they are designed for IR and/or PPID equines are usually too high in sugar, starch and/or fat. It’s really important to know the actual analysis and not be fooled by a name that says it is suitable for EMS/IR individuals.

We do not recommend feeding alfalfa hay to EMS/IR equines as it makes many of them laminitic. Although it tends to be low in sugar, many times the starch is higher and does not soak out. Additionally, protein and calcium are quite high, which can contribute to sore footedness and make mineral balancing very difficult.

TRIM: A proper trim is toes backed and heels lowered so that the hoof capsule closely hugs and supports the internal structures of the foot. Though important for all equines, it's essential for IR and/or PPID equines to have a proper trim in place since they are at increased risk for laminitis. After any potential triggers are removed from the diet, and in PPID individuals, the ACTH is under control, the realigning trim is often the missing link in getting a laminitic equine comfortable. In general, laminitic hooves require more frequent trim adjustments to maintain the proper alignment so we recommend the use of padded boots rather than fixed appliances (i.e. shoes, clogs), at least during the initial phases of treatment.

Sometimes subclinical laminitis can be misdiagnosed as arthritis, navicular, or a host of other problems as the animal attempts to compensate for sore feet. 

You are encouraged to make an album and post hoof pictures and any radiographs you might have so we can to look to see if you have an optimal trim in place. Read this section of the wiki for how to get a hoof evaluation, what photos are needed, and how to get the best hoof shots and radiographs.

EXERCISEThe best IR buster there is, but only if the equine is comfortable and non-laminitic. An individual that has had laminitis needs 6-9 months of correct realigning trims before any serious exercise can begin. Once the equine is moving around comfortably at liberty, hand walking can begin in long straight lines with no tight turns. Do not force a laminitic individual to move, or allow its other companions to do so. It will begin to move once the pain begins to subside. Resting its fragile feet is needed for healing to take place so if the animal wants to lay down, do not encourage it to get up. Place feed and water where it can be reached easily without having to move any more than necessary. Be extremely careful about movement while using NSAIDs (bute, banamine, previcox, etc.) as it masks pain and encourages more movement than these fragile feet are actually able to withstand. Additionally, NSAIDs (and icing) do not work on metabolic laminitis and long term NSAID use interferes with healing. Therefore, we recommend tapering off NSAIDs after the first week or so of use. If after a week's time your equine's comfort level has not increased, then the cause of the laminitis has not been removed and keeping up the NSAIDs isn't the answer - you need to address the underlying cause.

 

There is lots more information in our files and archived messages and also on our website. It is a lot of information, so take some time to go over it and feel free to ask any questions. If you are feeling overwhelmed, don't worry, you will catch on, and we are always here to help you! Once you have your case history uploaded, we can help you help your equine partner even better.

For members outside North America, there are country specific folders in the files and many international lists in the wiki to help you find local resources.

If you have any technical difficulties, please let us know so we can help you. 








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Maxine and Indy (PPID) and Dangles (PPID)

Canberra, Australia 2010
ECIR Primary Response

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Maxine%20and%20Indy%20and%20Dangles 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=933

 

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