Date   

Re: Cortisol level and PPID

Nancy C
 

Hi Marie

You may  hear from Dr. Kellon from on the August subgroup, regardless of the size. It has just closed yesterday.  

That said, you may also want to wait a bit. The November course is getting ready to open shortly and you can go through the whole course again.
--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2020-2021

Recordings of the 2021 NO Laminitis! Conference released to attendees 09.03.21.
Veterinary Professional CE certification hours submitted to AAVSB Race 09.08.21


Re: Cortisol level and PPID

Marie
 

I joint the group but without answer. There is only 7 members. 



--
Marie Volsicka
Mid Europe
2021


Re: Transporting an IR horse long distance

Kathy Hurd Hollister
 

Thank-you Dr. Kellon! 
--
Kathy-Joined 5-/2016
Mia Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kathy%20and%20Mia 
Florissant, Colorado


Re: New Case History - looking for advice

Frances C
 

I will be boarding an PPID horse this winter, He is not IR. The owner had been using a 60 cc syringe to administer Prascend. Is the 10 cc syringe easier to use? What other sizes would be appropriate? His diet will be appropriate for an IR horse while he is my care but he is thin so just boost him up with beet pulp?
--
- Frances C.
December 2017, Washington & California
Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Frances%20and%20Phoenix
Phoenix's Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=12382


Re: Iodized salt; white or red?

 

Hi Kim,
Maybe you missed my post from last night?  Your vitamin mix is in a soymeal base which is not a good thing for QT.  However, we don’t know how much of that he is getting to know how much of an issue it might be.  If you look at the bottom of this page, under ingredients, you can see it listed. 

I buy 50# of Morton iodized salt online but, for the small amount QT will need, a grocery size box will probably suffice.  Places like Costco sell the same salt in restaurant sized boxes.  You can sprinkle it on soaked hay or you can dissolve it in hot water and spray it on his hay.  Once you get balance cubes or another approved feed, you can gradually add the salt to that until he’s accepting of it, putting the rest on his hay.  A small amount of the approved feed will serve as a carrier for his flax, salt, vitamin E and any added minerals his hay requires.

Excess iron can be quite problematic.  You can purchase RV water filters to filter it at the source; however, you’ll need to store the filter in a warm place so it doesn’t freeze and block the water flow.  I used these for several years but my barn water comes across the road from my house so I eventually installed a filter in my cellar where it doesn’t freeze.  There are much more advanced systems than this but at least it’s a start.

--

Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


locked Re: My Best Horse Spirulina

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Spirulina does not come in different concentrations. Read the Uckele label again; 1 scoop = 10 grams, not 20.

This discussion belongs on Horsekeeping.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


locked Re: My Best Horse Spirulina

Michele Goldberg <ladipus@...>
 

I just wanted to know if basically Spirulina is Spirulina- does it smell /taste the same ? Mine have been taking Uckele brand but it’s just very expensive for feeding it to 5 horses[$99 for 5lbs) ...I looked at My Best Horse it’s $59 for 6lbs but it looks like maybe their dosage you would need to use more ??says 1/8th cup equals 20grams ....Uckeles comes with a very small scoop which says it equals 20grams ....does Spirulina come in different concentrations??

--
Michele Goldberg
Bernville, Pa 
joined 5/19/2016 


Iodized salt; white or red?

sheldak@...
 

QT is supposed to be on Iodized salt. No "colored" salt. But for instance Stockmens Iodized Salt is red. And, iron in our water is "off the charts" (no choice at his water source).  So should I use Morton Iodized salt from the grocery store? He has been on Redmond Real salt for years (pinch). And, if I can't give him HS-35 mineral (http://www.hs35.net/more-on-hs-35) I have nothing to sneak the salt into. I am trying to find if HS-35 has starch and sugar.  So far find not enough to list in ingredients. Or what mineral to give him?
--
Kim
May 2021_Sheldon, ND
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/QT%20Case%20History%20Sept%202021-1.pdf 


Re: Hay balancing

 
Edited

Hi Florence,
The cost of hay balancing is variable - I have not actually paid to have one done but I believe each balancer sets their own fees.  You can take Dr. Kellon’s NRC+ course and learn how to do it yourself.  The course is not free but it does come on sale occasionally with a 2 classes for 1 offer.  I learned a lot from the course and do my own balancing but I’m not as confident at it as I would be doing it more frequently so I check my results against those of a ‘professional’.  Dr. Kellon will balance it without cost if you purchase the supplements you need from Uckele.  As I purchase what I need there, that works well for me.  I purchase Uckele U-Balance Foundation and generally need to make a single addition to that.  Presently that’s manganese.  Or you can touch base with an ECIR approved balancer, who will charge you a nominal fee.  The balancer does not need to live in your locale.

The bloodwork I generally have done is glucose, insulin and ACTH.  You’ve also had leptin and T4 analyzed.  We used to recommend leptin testing as it gives a measure of your horse’s drive to eat but that test isn’t universally available and doesn’t offer much valuable information.  Lots of vets want to see T4 tested as well.  It will generally test low, having nothing to do with the thyroid but rather euthyroid sick syndrome, which will disappear once the other issues have resolved.

--

Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


locked Re: My Best Horse Spirulina

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Yes, it's 40 g - 20 g twice a day.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Safe feeds list

 

Hi Daune,
Here’s a link to the safe feeds list.  Let me tell you how I found it because that might help.  First, I searched for ‘safe feeds’ on the Wiki on this page.  That brought up several options.  I chose the most obvious one which gave me a chart with a lot of underlined options, none of which was a live link.  I’m sure there was a reason but it wasn’t what I was looking for so I searched again in the Files on this page.  That did bring up what I was looking for.

 Since you didn’t know what you were looking for, I can understand the confusion.  But you don’t need to purchase a computer to work your way through that as there is no reason the return should be different when you’re accessing a site with your browser.  As you may remember, I use an iPad almost exclusively.  I do that because my computer is situated in a tiny office-let under my stairs and I’d generally prefer to sit on my couch and enjoy my view while I work.  And also because I want to see how much trouble it actually is.  If you know how to use whichever device you have, you should be as capable as the next person at finding your way around.  This site isn’t easy for anyone new here to navigate.  It’s not intentionally so and, once you learn your way around, you’ll be able to help others who got lost.
--

Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Safe feeds list

Daune Gatenby
 


--
Daune and Monty
Southeastern Massachusetts 
2021

Hi,  i have tried to view the safe feeds list and only get pop ups encouraging me to add an app or to look for a retailer.   Is it possible to get the list only.     Again, i only have an apple ipad and do not find this site user friendly.   Where can i find a list of safe feeds?   Or do i need to buy a computer to get information.


Hay balancing

F Sanford
 

What is the cost of Hay balancing?  I have emailed a request last week for information but I’m not sure I am making the correct contacts?  Please tell me the procedure and costs.  I am also needing advice about what bloodwork I should be running along side the routine Cornell Metobolic Panel?  Thank You!
--
Florence in upstate NY joined September 2021
Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Florence%20and%20Mr%20Black


locked Re: My Best Horse Spirulina

Cindy Giovanetti
 

I thought the goal for Spirulina (for allergies) was 40 g. It’s hard because mine don’t like it either.

Cindy

--
Cindy, Oden, and Eeyore, North Texas
On ECIR protocol since 2/19
https://www.facebook.com/LifeWithOden/
History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Cindy%20and%20Oden
Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=91125


Re: New diagnosis pending

JoinTheHunt
 

This has been a very interesting week and I mean "interesting" in the bad sense of the word. I'm also struggling a bit with my signature file. I uploaded another case history to my folder for another pony and tried to add the link, but the system appears to have erased my signature and now won't save my changes? Not sure what is happening there. 

Artie saw his farrier and he was able to stand for her to do a little trimming, but not very much and definitely did not like being out of his SoftRides. I didn't get any pics because we were in a hurry to get him back in his boots to reduce his stress from standing on the concrete aisle. He had been in one shoe and one boot because RF abscess was still on the table, but is now barefoot and in SoftRides on both. He appears happier with this change, his stance is more relaxed and square and he is getting around in his stall a little better and he's interested in getting out of his stall when we come to the door. I didn't get any pics because we were in a hurry to get him back in his boots to reduce his stress from standing on the concrete aisle. I am tapering his bute dosage down and he is currently at 1/2g twice a day. His digital pulses have decreased to normal levels and he's still on the low-starch hay. He's eating it better, but still not as well as I would like. The vet was also here on Friday and we discussed more testing since the current results are so baffling. I still don't have the actual results yet, but his ACTH was 18 and his insulin 52. I don't have a number for glucose off the top of my head and leptin was under 10 but I can't remember the exact number. She pulled blood for a CBC, but we will hold off on other tests at this time for him as he does continue to improve, albeit slowly. I am confident that the initial sample was handled correctly. We also discussed his xrays and between the two sets there have been no changes in his measurements so she's also confident that he is not actively rotating. 

The "interesting" part of the week was why my vet was out again. She was here to see my small pony, Rosie, and she was also diagnosed with laminitis. I'm so emotionally overwhelmed right now, that it's hard to even write this. She's a 22yo Section C Welsh and she is fat and I have been fighting with trainers, the barn owner and my staff to get this pony on a diet for years now. I even had her set up on a great program using the Hay Chix mini nets that was actually working to get some weight off of her in addition to her regular exercise in the lesson program but I was told we weren't going to continue it because it was too taxing on the staff to stuff and weigh the mini nets all the time. The best I could get was dry lot turnout. And now here we are. She's hurting and I am so angry and sick because this one I could see coming and I tried so hard to avoid this for her.

Emotion aside, the facts are that she started looking off last week, but initially it appeared to be her neck was bothering her. She has a history of needing occasional chiropractic treatments, so I scheduled the chiro and she was indeed out in her mid-cervicals, but also tight in her pelvis, which is unusual for her. After the adjustment we both agreed that she walked off stiff and should get bute and 2 days of rest before returning to work. I went to lunge her on Thursday morning 10/28 and she wasn't willing to leave her stall, also very unusual as she is not a lazy pony at all. I got her to take a few unwilling steps, did not like how braced and stiff she was in the front and started her on the emergency diet immediately. I was able to get a vet appt for Friday 10/29 and she confirmed my suspicions of laminitis. The good news is that Rosie is responding excellently to the emergency diet. She's turned around much quicker than Artie has AND she doesn't seem to mind eating low-sugar hay. I'm feeding her off our regular large bales and soaking it because I don't have a large supply of the tested hay and it's more manageable to soak and drain small pony portions. Her pulses were not terribly elevated, but she did have some sensitivity to hoof testers. Her xrays are normal. I'm going to guess her blood will show more EMS/IR than PPID. At least now I have vet's orders to back up what I've been saying all along about her diet, although enforcing this and a treat ban, long term, is going to be an uphill battle. 

I've climbed around the stacks in the hay barn and sampled every batch that we have. I'm hoping that out of 6 samples I have something suitable to feed these guys. Given that I have 2 laminitics all of a sudden and that we had a drought period before 1st crop came in, I'm also speculating that my large bales are going to be sky-high in sugar and starch and that's where the problem is. 

--
Kelly in SE Wisconsin 2017

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kelly%20and%20Artie

 


Re: Fergus Can he have bute

Jennifer Green
 

Im interested in any and all hay bag suggestions. I did buy some ground feeder type tubs for now. It’s not a slow feed option, but it’s at least safe.

I had read that it wasn’t healthy to put the hay bags up too high because they should be eating with their heads down. This one wasn’t on the ground, but it was low. It was also nylon because I tried cotton originally but it was getting gross with all of the soaking. But maybe a different material would have broken away. 


He lives out 24/7 but he’s stalled tonight in a poultice and standing wraps. By this afternoon, the swelling hadn’t changed, he still wasn’t lame, but his leg was still swollen and there was some heat. More warm than hot. I figured a night in was needed to keep him quiet. I’ll check him in the morning and reassess. We have the vet coming out Tuesday anyway for an insulin recheck so I can have them look at this too. Obviously if in the morning things are worse, I’ll call tomorrow.

Maybe it was just a freak accident, I just felt so bad :( 
--
J.Green 
MA, USA
2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Fergus%20Case%20History
CaseHistory@ECIR.groups.io | Album


Re: Which supplement for Laminitis is the best?

 

Hi Kim,
It’s good to see you posting!
QT might well not need the mineral supplement as you don’t know what, fI anything, is missing from his hay.  Once you have that information, you can make a better decision.  Your product does have soybean meal as a carrier which is not appropriate for IR horses; however, if the amount you feed her is very small, it probably won’t be an issue.
I buy Morton Iodized salt in 50# bags online.  That lasts me quite awhile, even with 5 horses.
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Re: Advice and clarification needed please

Anette
 

He is dewormed regularly and his teeth were floated beginning of this year. He is back to getting two meals a day , by weight he is getting more than he was before but instead of oats with salt,and vitamins it's oats,beet shreds,Tim cubes,salt, and vitamins balanced to the hay and freechoice hay. You remember correctly, he is underweight . It looks as if increasing the pergolide is the next step. The CBC bloodwork did not show that anything else is amiss. Funny thing is,his coat stayed dark all summer whereas his pasturemate's fadded as usual.
--
Anette and Superman (Jaywalker in heaven)
Boomer, NC
Sep.9 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Anette%20and%20Jaywalker
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=265991


Re: Lingering Symptoms of IR

Karen Turner
 


Re: Which supplement for Laminitis is the best?

sheldak@...
 

Maxine (thank you!). The 3rd entry is a prairie grass hay that will be starting soon and test ASAP. HS-35 is his mineral http://www.hs35.net/more-on-hs-35 (stop feeding?). Will try get QT tested for Thyroid and EMS this week.  Thyro-L to get his weight down and now his neck roll is deflated. Afraid if I quit he will start gaining again? Yes, no more bits of green. Will put back on flax. Google can't find Stockmens Iodized Salt loose, only big blocks.  Not made anymore? No more Equinity. Will use up last of Remission. QT is doing well around his pen, will not try drive for awhile, winter coming anyway. Will read and re-read what you have sent any chance I get.
--
Kim
May 2021_Sheldon, ND
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/QT%20Case%20History%20Sept%202021-1.pdf 

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