L-glutamine is the most abundant amino acid in the blood and is nonessential, meaning the body can synthesize what it needs. Huge amounts are synthesized by muscle.

In humans, and likely in horses too, L-glutamine is "conditionally" nonessential, meaning there are times when the body's production can't keep up with demands. This results in a deficiency state where supplementation is not giving extra, it's restoring normal. If you have a reasonable justification for giving it, I wouldn't hesitate even in an IR horse.
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Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001

Hi Rebecca,

If Dutch 's entire diet is the ODTBC and less than 1lb of the Low Carb Complete, there is no additional balancing needed as the ODTBC are already mineral balanced by Dr. Kellon.

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Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR

The 6:1:4:4 is fine unless you have an iron overloaded horse with refractory insulin. The balancing of the cubes is done based on sampling the large lots of hay used for each year's production. There's going to be some variation in individual tests but they will average out at the   target.
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Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001

Glad he's feeling better.

Vinnie has a history of coming up sore if he overdoes it and it's not even necessarily laminitis related. He has extensive arthritic changes in the left pastern and ground parallel coffin bones on last check which strains the deep digital flexor and navicular area. Elevated triglycerides do not cause lameness.
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Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001

Kandace, are you asking about Strongid T? It’s the only caramel-flavored Strongid I could find. https://www.zoetisus.com/products/horses/strongid-t.aspx
--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse and Diamond Case History Folder                
Cayuse Photos                Diamond Photos

I have a question about balancing minerals to the correct ratios in my horse’s diet.  I know the ratios for iron, copper, zinc and manganese should be 4:1:3:3. Dutch’s diet consists of Timothy Balance Cubes from Triple Crown and less than a pound of LMF Low Carb Complete in his treat ball to combat boredom between meals. There isn’t any iron listed in the analysis for the TBC’s. How do I balance the ratios with no iron content? His diet consists now of TBCs, flax, vitamin E, a probiotic, tri amino, biotin and salt. The ratios based on published analysis of these ends up at (.6:1:4:4). Is this ok or should I add something? He’s currently on Metformin and we are tapering him off his Thyro L. 

July 2009, Sacramento, California
Case History, https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Rebecca%20and%20Dutch%20-%20Snuggles/Dutch  .
Dutch Photos, https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=857  .

L-Glutamine is in Uckele's GUT supplement that is often recommended here so can I conclude it is safe?
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Nancy and Vinnie and Summer
Oakley, Ca
Joined Nov 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245855

Summer
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie/Summer 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=249104

I should also add that the 2018 post is specific to a horse with unusual mineral levels and advise for that horse may not apply to all IR horses.

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Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album

Hi Anthie, 

As new information becomes available, Dr Kellon's advise will change to reflect that.  The link to the journal article in her June 2021 post shows that it was published in March 2021.  The second post you copied and pasted advising L-glutamine was done by Dr Kellon in 2018 and is outdated in light of new data.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album

Greetings. 

My 20 year old Tennessee Walking Horse gelding Dandy was diagnosed with PPID in the spring. He has been on 1mg of Presend since that time however I question if this is the right dosage. I also have concerns regarding his current management. 

He is continuing to have intermittent trouble with his feet (some days are OK, some he is very sore) and is not sound. He is now ribby with a significant loss in topline. I asked my Vet this question- about appropriate dosages a month after starting the medicine- however he said most horse do fine with one pill. He also stated there was no way to test to see if the medicine is working. I have been following the IR/PPID messages on this site for a few weeks and it seems that this may not be the case.

I have also unfortunately made some mistakes in my feeding and management of the horse due to ignorance. I both let him out on what I thought was 'safe' dry grass pasture once the field turned brown for up to 3 hours a day, and also started increasing his hay ration as he is now thin and its getting cold here in Montana as winter approaches. Perhaps these actions greatly impacted his feet. I detail my actions step by step in our case history. I am, like perhaps everyone else on this site, desperate for my horse to be comfortable. I live in a very cold climate, and traditionally I have fed free choice first cutting grass hay during the winter to keep him warm, however if he must be on a restricted diet I um unclear how to keep him warm. He is prone to getting cold, more so than any of my other horses. He does not grow much of a winter coat. 

I would appreciate any advise on medicine dosage/testing and feeding. Thank you so much. 
Dosage: how do I know if the dosage is correct for my particular horse?
Testing: is there a reliable test to see if his PPID is under control? when is it best to do this test?
Feeding: what are you feeding recommendations for a thin, and prone to be cold horse during the inter in Montana, when too much hay seems to set his feet off....?

Thank you so much, 

Laura

Link to Laura and Dandy Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Laura%20and%20Dandy
Link to Laura and Dandy Photos & X Rays: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=269693


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Laura C in Montana 2021

Thank you!  That was an easy way!
--
Linda in CA  2020  Midnight and Ostara
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Linda%20Midnight%20OStara

Hi Everyone --

As Kirsten stated this is OT for the main group and needs to be moved to ECHorsekeeping.

Thank you!

--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2020-2021

Recordings of the 2021 NO Laminitis! Conference released to attendees 09.03.21.
Veterinary Professional CE certification hours submitted to AAVSB Race 09.08.21

Hi Nancy, Thank you for the reply regardless of the date. I have moved my old man to Kentucky where he is doing much better in the cooler climate. The struggle here in Florida was too much for both of us. The thing that is so frustrating about this horrible affliction is that there is no reliable treatment much less cure and not enough interest to fund further research. This is according to UF vet at recent seminar.

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Marilyn and Freddie
Daytona Beach, FL
Dec 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Marilyn%20and%20Freddie

Hi Suzanne,

You’re most welcome for the ‘help’ I gave you.  I learned a lot in the process!

I try not to peek at the data while it’s being entered but, now that I have, I need to congratulate you on your perseverance.  I know it would be great to take your diagnosis and be done with it but, like Sherry, I’m not convinced your ACTH results are high enough to be diagnostic for PPID.  I would encourage you to have a TRH stim test done at some point after the rise is complete at the end of the year.  I have not experienced the spookiness but I have read several reports.  It might be associated with more than enough pergolide as that situation is fairly uncommon.  The only way to check that would be to decrease the dose a bit and pay attention to his behavior.

I was going to ask if you’d had any Lyme testing done but the last person I asked that lived in Colorado and was not familiar with Lyme so I checked.  Neither Kentucky nor Manitoba has had many case of Lyme.

I know you’re not in a position to change or test hay but is there any alfalfa in it?  That can cause hoof sensitivity in some IR horses (not sure about others), for unknown reasons.  With as many boarding barns as you’ve experienced, it seems unlikely to be hay related unless alfalfa is common in hay there.  There are timothy cubes which are tested to be low s/s and are mineral balanced if you want to see if they make a difference.  You can get them either from Triple Crown or Ontario DeHy, a Canadian company.  You feed them at 3/4 the amount of the designated hay weight.  I use a lot of them.
--

Hi there’s a great recent podcast on hoof boots on https://thehumblehoof.com/
It’s a guest speaker who specializes in fitting and she talked about this issue. I highly suggest you check it out. 
Sharon Bice
December 2020    Sandia Park, New Mexico

Taillight's Case History:  
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Taillight%20Case%20History

Taillight's Photo Album:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=257590

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Terrie H in Australia 2021
Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Terrie%20and%20Dixie
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=268416

Vinnie was a bit improved tonight, he was alert and much brighter. I am hoping this positive response continues.. I have put some socks on some we are dropping I to the mid 40's just in case he is having some cold response in his feet. Although it hasn't been too cold here in the last two weeks.

He didn't want to eat much if his beet pulp again tonight, but did finish the morning ration which is equivalent to about 1.3lb dry.

I am holding my breath ...until tomorrow..here is some video from tonight.  He is on low doses of banamine so I am.not forcing any walking.
https://youtu.be/X2qBoCuXPzw
Thanks Nancy 



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Nancy and Vinnie and Summer
Oakley, Ca
Joined Nov 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245855

Summer
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie/Summer 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=249104

Hi Terrie,

Your trimmer has done a wonderful job and is definitely someone you want to keep around!  There are a few minor corrections that could maybe be made to heel height based on the last xrays (maybe your trimmer dealt with them after the xrays were done?), but it's best if Lavinia discussed them with you.  The bone loss is irreversible but sometimes the smallest changes in angles can result in a horse walking off more comfortably afterwards.  Nancy C, our current President and Treasurer, has posted about seeing trim adjustments make a real difference many times, especially with her own horse, Beau.  Here are a selection of those posts:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/261827
https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/267502
https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/241854
https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/249059

Dixie is lucky to have found you.  Small horses can get away with more bone loss than large ones and have a better chance at becoming more comfortable with the right hoof care and diet.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album

Hi Suzanne,

Since that's off topic for the ECIR Main group, I'll answer your question in the Horsekeeping sub group.  See you over there!
https://ecir.groups.io/g/Horsekeeping

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album

Kirsten Rasmussen suggested these boots. I looked up the site. It states they recommend this boots for horses that are “twisting”. What does that mean?  Has anybody else tried these boots?  My concern is that I would lose one during a ride. How well do they stay on?
--