Date   

Re: Sherry/ got info from Guelph re: Adjusted Listing for ACTH during seasonal rise

Suzanne and Pilgrim
 

Hi Sherry,

I called Guelph today.  The info I got from the Oct 20 testing was the following:  "The equine endogenous ACTH reference interval (2-10) reflects values obtained in mid to late summer, prior to the expected seasonal Fall) increase seen in this species.  Please refer to the AHL Lab Note #56-Equine PPID and EMS testing-for further details.  (I'm pretty sure that is just a generic statement in all reports.)

The following info is what I gleaned from Lab Note #56. I'm not sure if that is what you were requesting...

A "seasonal increase" in ACTH has been documented during the fall months, with median concentrations ~2 times the upper reference limit (although some healthy horses showed significantly higher values.  This seasonal increase has an impact in the interpretation of lab results.  Reference intervals at the AHL  (2-10 pmol/L) were developed outside the seasonal rise; thus, as an example, an ACTH result of 18 pmol/L could be unremarkable in the fall but would be interpreted as increased for the remainder of the year.  The seasonal rise in ACTH may also be exaggerated  in early PPID, increasing the sensitivity of the test, however seasonally adjusted reference intervals would be required for accurate interpretation.
--


Re: Ziva's ongoing laminitis

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Karrie,

The dose of metformin is 30mg/kg 2x a day - that works out to 12, 587mg twice a day for a horse that weighs 925lbs (419.573kg).  If your compounded dose is 26,000mg per tablespoon you need to give a half tablespoon 2x a day.




Re: Updated case history - ACTH in normal range after increased Prascend #file-notice

Mary Ann
 

I also forgot to mention this blood test was taken without using sedation. 
--
Mary Ann & Rosie - Nova Scotia, Canada - Joined August 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=252134
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Mary%20Ann%20and%20Rosie


Re: Winter Coat is not coming in as usual

Nancy C
 

Hi Linda

My QH Skip -- PPID not IR -- always grew a great winter coat until two years ago when he was diagnosed as PPID.  Even though he is now controlled I have to blanket him at @ 32 degrees  F or he is shivering.  His coat is just not what it was when he was younger and without PPID.  He does hold his winter coat a little longer in the spring.  I test him minimum twice a year to make sure he is controlled in the teens.
__
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2020-2021

Recordings of the 2021 NO Laminitis! Conference released to attendees 09.03.21.
Veterinary Professional CE certification hours submitted to AAVSB Race 09.08.21


Re: Now: Commercial Feed Analysis Library - 11/08/2021 #cal-notice

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Janet,

A single sample cannot compare to the accuracy of the bulk sampling of hays that is done before these cubes are made. I take the results of the hay and beet pulp samplings, and add a factor for machine iron in balancing the cubes.

--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Ziva's ongoing laminitis

Karrie
 

Ziva's compounded Metformin arrived on Friday. She actually likes it! I have a question about the dosage. She weighs approximately 925 pounds. When I was giving her the pills, she was taking 12 pills two times per day (1000 mg each) for a total of 26,000 mg. My vet just told me that the compounded is 26,000 mg per tablespoon. Should I give her 1 tablespoon once a day (which is what my vet recommended), or 1/2 tablespoon two times per day? 

The compounded Metformin is way more expensive than the Metformin pills. My vet tried to find out what apple flavoring they use, but she didn't have any luck. I could make my own for way cheaper in my food processor. I searched the files briefly for an apple flavoring, but haven't found any yet. Any recommendations on where to buy some? I would like it in powder form. I've tried the Uckele liquid flavorings, and she won't eat them.
--
Karrie
May 2018, Audrain County, MO

Frankie (over the bridge) and Ziva's Case Histories: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Karrie%20and%20Frankie%20-%20Ziva 
Frankie's Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=55533
Ziva's Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=55539


Re: Now: Commercial Feed Analysis Library - 11/08/2021 #cal-notice

Qhgirl
 

Interesting.  Noticing the TC Timothy Balance cubes from one analysis to another the iron.  In the 2020 most recent one the iron is sky high, yet I understand these are safe to feed as a complete diet.  Can somone please help me understand why they are considered safe with such high iron?
--
Janet and Chicy
Chester SC
09/17/2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Janet%20and%20Chicy
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=268334


Winter Coat is not coming in as usual

Starshine Ranch
 

Before my horses got PPID, they grew wonderful winter coats, Stara, especially.  Then for a few years starting around 2015, they continued to grow winter coats as normal but they grew an extra coat in late spring which they shed late summer.  This went on for a few years, with the exception of one year,2018, until they were diagnosed in late 2019 and I started them on Prascend and now liquid Pergolide.  At first, after the Prascend/pergolide, their coats grew and shed as normal but this year their coats are not growing in enough.  They are a bit longer than a summer coat but not nearly as long as their regular winter coat has been in the past.  Has anyone else seen this?
--
Linda in CA  2020  Midnight and Ostara
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Linda%20Midnight%20OStara


Re: Help with newly diagnosed horse with PPID -- higher meds or different management?

Laura Caplins
 

If Dandy ends up getting too much sugar in his hay/rations/grass etc what is the response time between when he eats 'too much sugar' and when it shows up as discomfort in his body or feet? I am having a hard time identifying triggers for him and thus weighing different management choices. 

Also, I was clearly reading my hay analysis incorrectly. Thank you for the connection. If I am aiming for 10% or less of combined ESC and Starch and my hay comes in at 10.5% - 11% (MT is currently experiencing a MASSIVE hay shortage, and I am frankly shocked I was able to get hay this low) how dramatically bad is this hay? Clearly less than 10% is better, but how 'bad' is slightly higher hay? Im trying to understand the relative nature of increasing ESC/Starch numbers. Is it a exponentially negatively bad relationship after 10%? Linear relationship? Is 10% a tipping point?

Thank you. 
Laura

--
Laura C in Montana 2021

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Laura%20and%20Dandy


locked Re: rice bran

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

All rice bran is much too high in sugar and starch, likely high arsenic, loaded with proinflammatory omega-6 fatty acids and perpetuates the common low copper and zinc, high manganese mineral profile. Why feed it?
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


locked rice bran

Daisy Shepherd
 

is there a safe brand of rice bran about 4 oz per day for the ir horse. thanks, daisy, tiko, whisper
--
-- 
Daisy, Tiko and Whisper
CO, April 2019
Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Daisy%20and%20Tiko 
Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=90099&p=Name,,,20,2,0,0


Re: Story won't eat supplements

Michele Einarson
 

I get fenugreek on Amazon.  search for "Kasoori Methi" to get the herb used in Indian cooking.  Much cheaper than as a health supplement.  https://smile.amazon.com/s?k=kasoori+methi&rh=n%3A724714011&ref=nb_sb_noss
--
Michele & Mosey IR, Feb 2019
Reno, NV, USA
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Michele%20and%20Mosey
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=88791


Re: Deworming Strongid 2

Kandace Krause
 

Thanks Lorna,
It seems I must look closer at item trying to purchase.

--
Kandace K
Rocky Mountains, Alberta, Oct 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kandace%20J%20and%20K
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=259062


Re: Deworming Strongid 2

Kandace Krause
 

Thanks Kirsten,

What antihistamine have you used?

K won't take out of hand feed or treats at all, period.  Too much distrust from Metformin and Pergolide I guess.
I bought a Riva's remedy spray and I have sprayed it into a small syringe but it was administered after the fact on the reaction to the three way, so I am not certain if it may have had some antihistamine effect of I had started the treatment before the vaccine.
--
Kandace K
Rocky Mountains, Alberta, Oct 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kandace%20J%20and%20K
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=259062


Re: Deworming Strongid 2

Kandace Krause
 

Thanks Cass,
It could be, I usually have to buy online and I didn't register that detail as I went WHOA when I saw caramel flavour.  From others it looks like I can get unflavored so I will just make certain when I order or pick up from feed store.
--
Kandace K
Rocky Mountains, Alberta, Oct 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kandace%20J%20and%20K
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=259062


Re: Update and new blood work for Riosa reveal severely increased insulin

hdavis
 

Dr Kellon- how shall I proceed with Riosa to best prepare for the coming winter and the deep dive of cold temps which always makes her insulin jump but never has it been close to the levels of our last blood draw.

Her current tested hay is 8.5% S&S and she is not on free choice hay but about 25-8 lbs currently. I adjust hay based on temps over the winter as well.  She is being exercised but not as strenuously as previous winters due to some issues she is having and we are building up her exercise tolerance. Most days min she gets 20 minutes walking and every other day minimum 30 mins which includes 20 min walking and 10-15 minutes trot/canter. Walking is more like hiking includes varied terrain and hills.

Do I reduce feed?  I don’t think she is gaining weight on the current feed amounts but worry about higher insulin.

Should I pull bloods again shortly to see if insulin has gone down or is still climbing?  

--
Heather
August 5, 2017, Brandon, Manitoba, Canada

Riosa 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Heather%20and%20Riosa

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=8819 


Storm

Case History


 




Re: Where to find all my messages

 
Edited

Good work, Suzanne!
I generally follow messages on the ECIR website, mainly because I have so much email I’m afraid I’d miss something.  If you’re on the website here, you can see your total activity by clicking on  the “Suzanne and Pilgrim” link next to your photo near the top of the page* and then on ‘All messages by this member’.  Seeing the note there, I can tell you that at that point in time his insulin resistance was ‘compensated’ or well managed with your care.

*edited to add - it is not actually at the top of the page once I added this message, but at the top of one of your messages.
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Re: Cupcake's high insulin

Carla Anderson Peters
 

Dr. Kellon,

Her last triglycerides on October 8th were 45.

How would that change to Steglatro (ertugliflozin) work?  Would you stop the Invokana immediately and then start the other medication immediately?

Thank you!!


--
Carla

 

December 2013, WI

Cupcake and Gunnar's Case Histories 

Cupcake's Photos

Gunnar's Photos 

Ω



Re: Question Pergolide Dose For Relevante

Lynn
 

Thanks Dr. Kellon. I will keep the boots on, continue to monitor him and wait until after our vet appointment. 
--
Lynn
Beavercreek, Ohio
March 2018
Relevante Case History
Relevante Photo Album

Ω


Re: Where to find all my messages

Suzanne and Pilgrim
 

Lol, just after sending thi message.  I stumbled upon the answer myself.  Pat on the back fo me for a little win on my own
--  

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