Would like to check if I continue the Devils Claw (2 tblsp twice daily) and Metformin (9000mg twice daily) when I start the Jiaogulan please.  I think I have read somewhere that Devils Claw is not to be given with Jiaogulan but cannot find the reference again.  If I do continue the Devils Claw can anyone advise how long I can give that for without harm, and maximum dose for 300kg pony.   Thanks in advance.
--
Terrie H in Australia 2021
Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Terrie%20and%20Dixie
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=268416

Hi Jennifer. I have a picky mare.  When she starts to ignore her food, its very rare now, but in the past I followed our picky eaters checklist----  https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/9b%20Pulling%20it%20Together/Picky%20Eaters%20Checklist.pdf  -- 


 




Trisha DePietro
Aug 2018
NH
Dolly and Hope's Case Histories
Dolly's Photos 
Hope's Photos 
Primary Responder

Correct.

Access for six months.
--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2020-2021

Recordings of the 2021 NO Laminitis! Conference released to attendees 09.03.21.
Veterinary Professional CE certification hours submitted to AAVSB Race 09.08.21

I also give CBD oil to my PPID/IR mare, Grits, who has melanoma. It has definitely slowed the growth with oral and topical use. I’m interested in the answer to this question, too.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

--
Kim 10-2014

Clover, SC

Dually: IR; Grits and Bella: PPID, IR; and Eeyore (deceased, but not PPID related)

Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kim%20and%20Grits%20-%20Eeyore%20-%20Dually

Photo album Grits https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=1314

Photo album Eeyore https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6586&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0
Photo album Dually https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=9046&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0
Photo album Bella https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=64978

So just like that after I said Fergus loved his food, tonight he decided he want going to touch it. He was still very interested in his hay.  Of course this after I just mixed up 15 days of his custom mix / supplements. How many days can he skip his supplements before he becomes nutritionally deficient? Should I try to hide it more with something ? I
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J.Green 
MA, USA
2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Fergus%20Case%20History
CaseHistory@ECIR.groups.io | Album

Laura - If you could please follow up on Scotty's auto refills to make sure that the system has been changed correctly I would appreciate it. I spoke with Nicole today. I received Scotty's upgraded dosage/60 days/filled 10/12/2021. Perfect. The next auto ship should have been in December 12, 2021.

Except I received a second 60 day supply, filled 11/5/2021.

So as of right now, I am sitting with a 90 day supply. So my next auto ship should not occur until February 1, 2022.  I also wanted to verify that this 2nd bottle is good until the 90 days are used up.

Thank you in advance for all of your assistance.
--
Deb and Scotty I/R, PPID
Pecatonica Illinois, May 13, 2019
Case History:
 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Deb%20and%20Scotty
Photos:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=90619

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A million thanks for your support.
--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2020-2021

Recordings of the 2021 NO Laminitis! Conference released to attendees 09.03.21.
Veterinary Professional CE certification hours submitted to AAVSB Race 09.08.21
Subscription to recordings available through 12.31.21 https://www.nolaminitis.org/

Many factors contribute to thrush and age alone impairs immunity. If you want to know if he has PPID, get him tested.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001

--Is thrush sometimes a symptom of PPID?  I have a 32 year old horse that I am beginning to suspect has Cushings.  I have held off testing him because he has no other obvious symptoms, but I am beginning to wonder if his tendencies toward thrush may not just be my poor attention to cleaning his feet. 

I know that there are a lot of miscellaneous issues in PPID horses related to lowered immunity.  Could  a predisposition to thrush be one of them?  
Gail Russell 8/30/2008

 

 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Gail%20and%20Brother%20-%20Odin%20-%20Decaffe%20%20-Gunthar .

Hi Laura, 

My suggestion would be to completely eliminate triggers in the diet, such as winter grass, if you haven't already.   Then watch for signs of discomfort.  If he is still tender, try soaking the hay.  You should see a reduction in pain in 24-72 hours but it can be subtle at first.  Similarly, onset of pain from a diet indiscretion is usually within 24 hours, but may also be subtle at first.

Your Steve Brown hay actually tested at 10.0% ESC + starch As Fed (after moisture in the hay is accounted for) so it's a bit lower than the Dry Matter number reported.   Your Anderson hay is actually 9.5%.  The difference in these is negligible.  Also note that your ESC and starch analyses were done by NIR, methods, which is less accurate than the wet chemistry methods we recommend.  Often NIR under estimates sugars in hay, so you could easily be dealing with hay a couple % over 10% ESC +starch.

Safe ways to add forage-based calories include rinsed, soaked, rinsed beet pulp (Cindy suggested Speedbeet in her welcome letter, but unmollassed beet pulp pellets are fine, too), soy hull pellets, ground flaxseed, and Triple Crown Naturals Timothy Balance cubes, which are guaranteed to be <10% ESC + starch.  Beet pulp has high calcium so if you feed over 1lb (dry weight) a day you may need to adjust the minerals you feed with it, but the TC Timothy Balance cubes are already mineral balanced and can be fed in as high of an amount as you need to keep weight on your horse.  3 lbs of TC cubes = 4 lbs hay in terms of calories. 

Great job on your Case History timeline!

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album

I recently read that we shouldn’t give CBDs to horses who are PPID. Would that also apply to topical treatment of melanoma with CBDs?  

Terri Jennings with Teeny, Finn and Elliott
Arcata, CA
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Terri%20and%20Teeny
Joined 2019

And the high glucose is gone,  too, so it was only the sedative elevating it!  That's great news, I'm so glad everything on her panel is normalized for Rosie, now.  Good job!

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album

Jaini, one of our previous Canadian veterinary volunteers, has a post about using Benadryl to minimize vaccine reactions, which is what I'm assuming the antihistamine is for.
https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/227381

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album

Well thank you everyone... I guess we're not the only ones.  I just wondered if it was because they are on so much pergolide... 10mg for Midnight and 8.75mg for Stara.  I bumped it up quite a bit after their last test and for the seasonal rise.  This is all so tricky.
--
Linda in CA  2020  Midnight and Ostara
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Linda%20Midnight%20OStara

Hi Suzanne,

Good looking horse, and he's a good weight too.

How was he diagnosed as PPID?  The only elevated ACTH was on 9/9 which is seasonal rise time. I would take him off Prascend in December and do a domperidone stimulation a month later.

There is no convincing evidence of laminitis on his radiographs, including coffin bone quality. He does have sinking but that's a trim issue. He also has changes in the left navicular bone, not suprising with the hoof configuration. All should be very fixable with the right trim and time. His last insulin was normal so diet seems to be controlling that well.

He doesn't appear to need any help with regulating sugars and I would expect his cortisol is normal too. Jiaogulan has been shown to help with lung allergies but there are inconsistent results with skin. Jiaogulan will help the suspensory issue but don't start it until the trim is corrected.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001

You don't need to give her anything for pain just because she has changes on radiographs. You said she's walking great.  Worry about pain if she actually shows any.

Psyllium is fine as long as it's unsweetened.

A little Stabul 1 won't meet her pregnancy protein needs. You need a nutritional consultation.

There can be mammary changes with PPID and they should go away in time. Let your vet know if there is any heat.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001

Hi Suzanne,

Thanks for adding the latest rads.

You're correct that his toes are out ahead of where they should be. Soles are thin and heels are underrun all around. Fronts have a slightly broken back HPA while the hinds have ground parallel coffin bones.

Let me know when you have the photos up and the date of the farrier's appt, please.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR

Mine are sort of the opposite..Vinnie only formally diagnosed PPID this year was IR first, has grown the marathon coat the last two years.  Previously, he has a tight coat through December and then grew a slight winter coat but never enough to clip.  This year I clipped super early in Sept, and could clip again in reality.  He has guard hairs too.  


Summer grew a coat last year..she was unmanaged PPID and her first year diagnosed, she also IR. She shed really late this year after a couple health scares in May... but this winter she is back to her normal very slight winter  but super dappled pretty coat.
--
Nancy and Vinnie and Summer
Oakley, Ca
Joined Nov 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245855

Summer
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie/Summer 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=249104

I recently posted xrays of Pilgrim’s last trim. They illustrate that his toes are long. I hope to take photos tomorrow to send to Lavinia for markups before the farrier returns next week. 

Lately Pilgrim has become dangerously spooky. This came about overnight. I now suspect that he has been becoming increasingly foot sore since the spring. I will be putting him in boots starting tomorrow. 

Pilgrim has recently been diagnosed with PPID and he is only 12!  He is an extremely easy keeper and is constantly ravenously hungry. I work hard at trying to keep weight off him. The flies proved to make him highly reactive this summer - more so than in previous years. So bugs, extreme heat and then a 3rd suspensory injury (luckily only a strain) prevented us to from moving and exercising as much as we wanted this summer   Pilgrim’s eyes have also started tearing a lot  about à year ago. 

I’m wondering if some Joagulan in Pilgrim’s supplements could help regulate sugars,  reduce his cortisol and 
skin sensitivities  Currently I am giving him a daily dose of insulin Wise hoping to counter any increase in his sugars should that occur  

I just saw that there is no true evidence that Insulin Wise has that desirable action. Could I substitute some Joagulan for Insulin Wise? 

--