Date   

Re: Need comments on new X-rays showing more rotation, was Trim & Booting Advice Needed for Khan

Trisha DePietro
 

Your soft rides  should work fine, especially if your horse already likes them- You might want to get a spare set of pads because they wear the boots 24/7 with few breaks...except for removing boots and checking feet and bulbs for rubbing. So, they will go through pads pretty quick. 

The trim is really the key to success as you know. And the boots and pads offer extra support. 

--
Trisha DePietro
Aug 2018
NH
Dolly and Hope's Case Histories
Dolly's Photos 
Hope's Photos 
Primary Responder


Re: Cool Stance Copra and Micronized Linseed /Linseed Meal/Linseed Oil

celestinefarm
 

Michele, I also forgot to mention that members here buy large bags of stabilized flax from Turtle Mountain Flax, who grow and process flax in North Dakota

.Turtle Mountain Flax
--
Dawn Wagstaff and Tipperary   

Saline, MI  2003

Tipperary Case History

Juniper Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Dawn%20and%20Juniper/Case%20history%20Juniper.pdf .


Re: Cool Stance Copra and Micronized Linseed /Linseed Meal/Linseed Oil

Nancy C
 

Coolstance has twice the recommended level of fat for EMS horses and an inverted Omega 3:6 ratio, IOW, high in Omega 6.
--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2020-2021

Recordings of the 2021 NO Laminitis! Conference released to attendees 09.03.21.
Veterinary Professional CE certification hours submitted to AAVSB Race 09.08.21
2021 NO Laminitis! Conference Video Recordings available to new subscribers 11.09.21
  www.nolaminitis.org



Re: Topic Change: ACTH influence on Insulin -- Question from Mary

 

Hi Mary,
I had posted this on the old thread in response to your question.  Then the new thread was started so I’m moving it here.

Hi Mary,
If insulin is elevated as a result of elevated ACTH, I would not consider it ‘baseline’.  Some PPID horses have elevated insulin when their ACTH is elevated but some do not.  Hope that answers your question but it’s possible I misunderstood.
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Need comments on new X-rays showing more rotation, was Trim & Booting Advice Needed for Khan

Jessica Gunderson
 

Hello,

I need help with trimming and booting for Khan to get her more comfortable.  Also happy to pay for an additional mark-up. Unfortunately my vet cancelled x-rays today which I was hoping to have when I started this topic but I will get new x-rays as soon as I can.  I also need to upload new front laterals (was planning to do that when we took x-rays).  I currently have soft rides with lamanitic gels (frog support cutoff) which she seems to like the best.  I also have easy boot cloud and stratus but I usually use this 20mm rubber insert in them, she does not seem to like these as well. I also have equine fusion boots but I have not used them, I have an insert that kind of takes the form of the hoof that I think I could use in them.  Am open to any boot or pad that is just what I currently have at home to work with.

As far as trim while she has definitely improved since September, she has never become fully comfortable and resists movement. Friday, November 19, she became quite a bit more sore and has not improved since then.

Thank you.
--
Jessica and Khan
N.D., 2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jessica%20and%20Khan
CaseHistory@ECIR.groups.io | AlbumCaseHistory@ECIR.groups.io | Album


Re: New Case Embarr

Andrea Thomason
 

Thanks Maxine, it took me a few days to pull it all together.  I hope it makes sense… 

I’m not sure if they still have the sample.  I will ask the Q…

I think he’s better from a metabolic perspective with soaked hay.  The fall out is he really suffers gut wise,
on dry hay he’s much more comfortable gut wise and his poo is less compact…. I really hoped the hay would be within the guidelines for dry serving… 

thx 
Andrea 

--
Andrea Thomason 
Cheshire, UK
Joined 2021
Embarr 

Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Embarr

 

Photos:   https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=270421

 


Re: New Case Embarr

Maxine McArthur
 

Thank you for getting all that information sorted, Andrea. It’s interesting to see the Forage Plus hay analysis—I wish we had reports that detailed here!

if they still have your sample, I wonder if running a nitrates test might be wise—but then, the protein is low so maybe nitrates aren’t worth considering. Hopefully one of our more experienced forage experts can chime in. 

In the meantime, if he’s better when the hay is soaked, I’d keep soaking.
--
Maxine and Indy (PPID) and Dangles (PPID)

Canberra, Australia 2010
ECIR Primary Response

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Maxine%20and%20Indy%20and%20Dangles 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=933

 


Re: Cool Stance Copra and Micronized Linseed /Linseed Meal/Linseed Oil

celestinefarm
 

Michele, I would stay with regular flax. There are other suppliers of flax , such as Custom Equine Nutrition.
Omega-E – Custom Equine Nutrition
Horse Tech- discount for ECIR members
NutraFlax (horsetech.com)
Manna Pro- could check with company to obtain a larger size if needed.
Flax for Horses | Ground Flaxseed for Horses | Flaxseed Benefits for Horses (mannapro.com)
Cool Stance is coconut meal, and I don't think it has the Omega 3 profile you are trying to achieve with feeding flax. I'm not really familiar with it so I might be wrong, but it's nutritional claim is that it provides medium chain tryglyceriides.  Micronized Linseed from British Horse Feeds is sold through Emerald Valley, the distributor of Speedi Beet.  Since we have typically used cold milled flax which preserves the fragile Omega's , I'm having a hard time believing that chopping, grinding and cooking linseed, then drying it to a flake to ship preserves the Omega 3's in the same manner. I also can't find the amount of 3's in the product, they simply list 3,6, and 9.  It also only has a shelf life of six months, compared to two years for flax. 
--
Dawn Wagstaff and Tipperary   

Saline, MI  2003

Tipperary Case History

Juniper Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Dawn%20and%20Juniper/Case%20history%20Juniper.pdf .


Cool Stance Copra and Micronized Linseed /Linseed Meal/Linseed Oil

Michele Goldberg <ladipus@...>
 

Are any of these appropriate replacements for stabilized ground Flax?..Apparently Triple Crown has a crop shortage on their Triple Crown Naturals Golden Ground Flax which is what I’m feeding to everyone at my farm 

--
Michele Goldberg
Bernville, Pa 
joined 5/19/2016


Dr. Kellon - What to do? No DOMPERIDONE Testing

Suzanne and Pilgrim
 

I was going to do a domperidone test on Pilgrim in early January. I spoke to my vet yesterday and the necessary drug is not available in Canada. I’m not willing to submit Pilgrim to a dex-suppression test due to the possible risks. 

So I am at a loss about what to do about his dosing of Prascend. He is currently at 1 mg (full tablet) daily. He was considered borderline I believe…

Do I continue to give him Pergolide though he may not need it?  Reduce to a lesser dosage?
I’ve downloaded screenshots of his ACTH/Glucose/Insulin values for September and October in my photo album.

Thanking you in advance for your assistance,

Suzanne 

--


Re: New Case Embarr

 

Thanks, Andrea!  I saw them come in not too long ago and your links are correct.  Thank you so much for getting them posted.
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Topic Change: ACTH influence on Insulin -- Question from Mary

Nancy C
 
Edited

Hi Mary and all --

I was afraid this would go missing, so I am pulling it out of Jessica's thread.  I hope to illustrate why we ask everyone to change the topic as the thread veers to another question.  No reflection on you Mary. We have gotten lax in requesting topic changes. Just don't want this important consideration to get lost.

~ N

Mary wrote:

I have a questions about varying levels of ACTH, can that also influence baseline insulin levels? If baseline ACTH is wnl, would that correspond with possible lower levels of Insulin? And when ACTH levels are higher, could that correspond with higher baseline insulin levels? 
--
Mary and Halo (Heavenly Halo), Wellon (IR) and Tsjibbe (IR, PPID) and Lady Di (PPID, IR)

West Fargo, ND, USA

Joined April 2016

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Tsjibbe

Halo's Case History

Halo's Photos


--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2020-2021


2021 NO Laminitis! Conference Video Recordings available to new subscribers until 12-31-21
  www.nolaminitis.org



Re: Alternate drug to Metformin

Kandace Krause
 

Thanks Kirsten and Sherry,
I did have a re draw of blood on early October.  It was sent to Cornell and vet reported back that it was refused border crossing.  By the time vet  could come back to me, the horse was being moved to a boarding farm for the winter (I have wrist surgery scheduled).  We had a plan that vet would come to the farm to do retest after horse had been settled in for three weeks.  When I called for that appointment she had only one day free and it was not possible for me to get there.  I had mentioned Dr. Kellons note about increasing pergolide in August but she did not respond to that, as we had a retest planned.
Then the vet went south for winter working a rodeo circuit.
I tried another vet who was coming to farm but his schedule didn't allow for proper handling of blood sample.
Now, December, I am wondering if I have missed the whole rise and lost the knowledge it would have gained.
Do I still get blood work done?  K is at a 4.5 BSC now, coming into the cold season.
Because this will be another new vet, do I just go ahead and increase wait three weeks and get tested?
--
Kandace K
Rocky Mountains, Alberta, Oct 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kandace%20J%20and%20K
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=259062


Re: Is it safe for Khan try prascend/pergolide (Dr. Kellon please weigh-in thank you)

 

Hi Jessica,
No need to feel deflated.  We, you included, are narrowing down the causes of Khan’s discomfort.  I would start her on pergolide to eliminate any lingering thoughts that it might still be an issue.  Then start a new posting thread, focusing on her feet.  Having a new thread with a different heading keeps everyone focused on what the issue is.  It also freshens peoples’ minds and interest in the topic. 
--

Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Re: New Case Embarr

Andrea Thomason
 


-- updated with the case history and photo  links 
Andrea Thomason 
Cheshire, UK
Joined 2021
Embarr 

Case History: 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Embarr

Photos: 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=270421

 


Re: Is it safe for Khan try prascend/pergolide (Dr. Kellon please weigh-in thank you)

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Assuming the hay in your folder is what you are feeding you should be able to stop soaking. Jiaogulan may  help her quite a bit but you can't use it until the trim has been corrected and on schedule for trims at least every 3 weeks for now. You could try acetyl-L-carnitine https://uckele.com/acetyl-l-carnitine.html for neuropathic pain, 1 gram per 100 lbs of weight, twice a day for two weeks then once a day.

As an aside, once her  trims become more physiological/functional you can expect some discomfort after trims from collections mobilizing or weak tissues being brought back into use again. Both are good things and temporary.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: New Case Embarr

Andrea Thomason
 

Hi Sherry have I done something wrong….I’ve uploaded his case history and bloods etc under Embarr- is it not showing? 
--
Andrea Thomason 
Cheshire, UK
Joined 2021


Re: Is it safe for Khan try prascend/pergolide (Dr. Kellon please weigh-in thank you)

Jessica Gunderson
 


Re: New Case Embarr

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Andrea,

Can't say much without a case history but I would be soaking his hay again at this point.  Do you have him in boots as he has not sole to speak of based on the x-rays?




Re: Is it safe for Khan try prascend/pergolide (Dr. Kellon please weigh-in thank you)

Sherry Morse
 

Jessica,

You should start a new topic and call it something like "Trim & Booting Advice Needed".  You can do a trial of pergolide to see if it helps but if the issue is starting with the trim (which seems quite likely given her insulin level being well controlled right now) that needs to be fixed for her to feel better.  We always say this is a marathon not a sprint and there are no quick fixes.




10301 - 10320 of 278139