Date   

Re: Year End Report on ECIR Group Inc. Research -- How you can help.

Pamela Swartz
 

On behalf of our equine partners, I just want to convey how incredibly thankful I am for all you. I’m super excited to be part of an organization that will be funding research to address real-world issues to ultimately help so many horses and owners. 

I will continue to donate when I’m able and I will continue to encourage others to do the same. 

Thank you! 💕🐎💯

Pamela Swartz, L.E.
Ninja Skincare 
PO Box 1217
Nevada City, CA 95959
phone: 925.933.8425
email: Pamela@...
website: http://www.NinjaSkincare.com

On Dec 10, 2021, at 11:44 AM, Nancy C <threecatfarm@...> wrote:

Dear ECIR Group Members,

The ECIR Group Inc. logo reads, “Bridging Research and Real Life.” This motto was specifically chosen because no other organization can say that.

We understand that research can provide important insights, but what really matters is how the knowledge gained translates to improved treatment or management practices that will directly benefit the horse with PPID and/or EMS/IR.

One of the best examples of the ECIR Group research and real life enterprise are the NO Laminitis! conferences. These have grown from the first, held in 2011, where we discussed the basic principles of Diagnosis, Diet, Trim and Exercise (DDT/E), to our most recent fifth International Conference where topics included genetics, nutrition, the effect of exercise, emerging pharmaceuticals and everything hoof related — from identifiable early changes on a cellular level to anatomy to trimming practices.

We are very happy to report that the increased growth from the conferences, and generous support from our individual members and Benefactors ,has brought the ECIR Group Inc. closer to achieving one of the primary goals – to fund research. Within the next year, we will announce our plan to solicit research proposals from the equine community. We will also ask for your input to guide our research direction, because after all, who knows better what questions need answering than the hard-working people in the trenches. Look for a survey coming shortly.

When you support ECIR Group Inc. through subscription to the 2021 Conference recordings, or by your generous individual donations, or attendance at future NO Laminitis! Conferences, you are not only gaining knowledge, but supporting future research that will ultimately benefit everyone.

Right now, investing your dollars before year-end in a subscription to the 2021 NO Laminitis! Conference videos allows you to participate in bridging research and real life, applying what you learn to your individual needs, now and in the future.

As a scientist, I have spent a good deal of time studying biological systems and how these integrated systems develop and interact. One concept that always brings the ECIR Group to my mind is that of “emergence” that is,

“…emergence occurs when an entity is observed to have properties its parts do not have on their own; properties or behaviors which emerge only when the parts interact in a wider whole.”

I can’t think of a better description of the ECIR Group, whose interacting parts (your individual memberships) have helped thousands of people and their horses over the twenty-plus years since the group began.

Thanks for your continued support,

Kathleen Gustafson, PhD
ECIR Group Director and Research Advisor


--
Nancy C in NH -- posted for Dr. Gustafson
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2020-2021

2021 NO Laminitis! Conference Video Recordings available to new subscribers until 12.31.21
  www.nolaminitis.org



--
Pamela Swartz/Vinda, the most awesome Icelandic
Nevada City, CA


Tendon EQ - can I make my own?

Hilary McGregor
 

I'm in Canada and cannot order Uckele products or find a Canadian dealer. I asked Uckele directly and was told that they don't ship to Canada. If anyone has a different experience, please let me know!

I've been meaning to try Jiaogulan for suspensory ligament concerns but wondering if it would be better to include the other active ingredients in Tendon EQ as well.

Would it be safe to source, measure and mix the active ingredients myself? I'd be using either horse or human-grade ingredients.
If my ration is already balanced, is it important to include the extra zinc and copper in Tendon EQ?

--
Hilary and Amika
Prince George, BC, Canada
Joined July 2019
Amika's Case History Folder
Amika's Photos Folder


Re: Prascend Dosage & Increased ACTH Levels

Sue Ring
 

Hey Jamie,

Increasing Prascend dosage may require an accompanying dose of APF.  I found that increasing any dosage of Prascend was better facilitated with a dose of APF which seemed to help GREATLY the lethargy and inappetence that, many times, accompanies the dose increase.
--
Sue R in NC 2021

CASE HISTORY:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sue%20and%20Shifty

PHOTO FILES: 


 


Re: To blanket or not blanket an EMS horse

 

And you may have updated and I missed it, Sally.  I try to compare testing dates to pergolide changes but it’s frequently easy to get lost on that.
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Re: To blanket or not blanket an EMS horse

larkstabatha
 


Hi Martha... I posted Maisie's most recent ACTH testing results here back in July, and Dr. Kellon recommended I increase Pergolide to 1.5 MG, which I have done, but neglected to update her case history to reflect this... Sorry.  I will get that done this weekend.  I agree that the Donkey Sanctuary guidelines are most helpful.

Thank you,
Sally in Big Park, Arizona/April 2013

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sally%20with%20Tabby%20and%20Maisie 

  

 

 


Re: Prascend Dosage & Increased ACTH Levels

Jamie Miller
 

Thank you. The 103 ACTH was done 12/9/21, last Thursday. They drew blood prior to sedating him for the scope that identified the ethmoid hematoma. 

Next steps, I'll increase to 2 pills per day. On Monday I will have vet draw ACTH, Insulin non-fasting, and glucose testing.  He current has access to soaked hay which is provided at night feeding and he typically has some left over to munch in morning.  At morning feeding he is given Triple Crown Timothy Balance cubes (9% NSC, I believe).
--
Jamie Miller
Louisville, Kentucky, USA
July 2019
Horse: Hiram Walker
Walker Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jamie%20and%20Walker
Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=93084
Link to Profile for Hiram Walker


Re: Prascend Dosage & Increased ACTH Levels

 

In addition to the suggestions from Sherry and Kirsten, you should also request a glucose test —even though you just received a high glucose test. Insulin values are most useful with a glucose test taken at the same time. Both vary over the course of the day. It’s the relationship of insulin to glucose that informs us of EMS status. 
--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse and Diamond Case History Folder                
Cayuse Photos                Diamond Photos


Re: Dancer's updated Case History and a couple questions

Dancer's Mom
 

Thank you so much. Dancer does have a small rolling pen but she’s does crow hop and runs a little when she wants to get out. She is fine in there for nothing over an hour. I worry she’d run and crow hop too much and hurt her hooves and make them more sensitive again. Could that happen?
--
Patti
Northern California 2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Patti%20and%20Dancer


Re: Dancer's updated Case History and a couple questions

Dancer's Mom
 

Thank you soooo much for all your info. I appreciate any info from this amazing group.  Dancer and I are so grateful. 
--
Patti
Northern California 2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Patti%20and%20Dancer


Re: Prascend Dosage & Increased ACTH Levels

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Hi Jamie,

If Walker's ACTH was at 103 in December and he was on 1.5 Prascend I would say he needs a dose increase.  Remember, we recommend you try to keep ACTH in the middle of the normal range, YEAR-ROUND, so no more than the low 20s.  I would increase the dose by at least 0.5 and probably 1.0.

Do not fast for ACTH testing, it will lower the result artificially.  And, as Sherry said, fasting insulin is not very useful.  Non-fasted insulin will tell you what Walker's laminitis risk.  Fasting insulin will not.  Make sure Walker gets his morning hay at least 4 hours before the blood pull, or set out enough overnight hay that you know he will still have some hay left in the morning.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album


Re: Dancer's updated Case History and a couple questions

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Ps.  It sounds like Dancer is still on stall rest?  Is there a small turnout area or dry lot she can have access to, at least for a few hours a day?  It would be great if she can move around a bit on her own, and she might not be quite so excited during your walks that she hurts her feet jumping around.  Just make sure the ground is soft or she has padded boots on in the turnout. 

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album


Re: Dancer's updated Case History and a couple questions

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Hi Patti,

There's no need to walk her on hard ground if she's still recovering from laminitis.  I would stick with what she is most comfortable on, or put her in boots with pads if you find she is tender.  Better to protect her hooves while they are healing and growing out the laminitis damage, than to try and toughen them up...that can come later.

As for vaccinations, ideally you would check her ACTH and insulin again, after 3 weeks on the prescribed dose, to make sure they are under control and her metabolic condition is stable.  But as we are coming out of the seasonal rise and she's on pergolide now, the risk of laminitis being triggered by vaccines is much lower.

If you are planning to put Dancer 100% on the Meadow hay in your Case History folder, then you have everything you need to balance her diet.   You can contact one of our approved balancers here, or you can sign up for Dr Kellon's next NRC Plus course and learn to do it yourself.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album


Re: Nose Bleed Senior Horse

Lorismorgans
 

He had the surgery.the scope missed it. xrays finally found it. It was located high in sinuses.
Went through  below eye.
You cannot even tell where he had it. He was 17yrs..
Feel bad. He had small drips and slight bloody discharge for nearly a year. Other vet said it was from itching breaking little veins not to worry. But I know he had headaches, puffy eyes, and ran slight fevers that confounded vets.


--
Lori, Abel, Bodie & Dusty

2016

Redding, CA

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Lori%20and%20Able%20-%20Bodie%20-%20Dusty

 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6053&p=Name,,,50,2,0,0 .


Re: Sherry and/or Martha. Continued confusion about testing in Canada (TSH/Domperidone)

 

There’s no rush, Suzanne, except that everything takes more time than you expect.  Next year’s rise begins 6/21/22 and it’s good to have a plan in place before then.  We have a Canadian member whose vet was able to get TRH legally from the States but no names were shared.  Your vet might have some leads on that.  I haven’t looked back for ‘older’ references to domperidone but certainly Dr. Kellon’s message to you was recent.  

I have a 40ish yo pony whose ACTH has always been about 30, with or without pergolide.  I have to dose him based on his symptoms, which for him include increased urine.  I was testing my riding horse Logo so often and basically micromanaging his pergolide as I couldn’t imagine what symptom I could track with him.  It turned out that his skin was something I could watch.  It’s a skill that usually develops with necessity and experience.
--

Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Re: Prascend Dosage & Increased ACTH Levels

Sherry Morse
 

As you probably are aware we don't recommend a fasting insulin test as it won't tell you any more than a non-fasting one would. If this ACTH was done before any other procedures it shows that his current dose of Prascend is not enough and needs to be increased.  Personally, I would redo the test at the same time as a non-fasting insulin to see if that number was correct or was raised by the nose bleed and anything else that was done prior to the blood draw.





Re: Nose Bleed Senior Horse

millionairess1989
 

Hi Jamie,

My Arabian Millionairess developed an ethmoid hematoma back in 2017 when she was 28 years old. It started as a chronic nasal discharge with nothing remarkable showing on x-rays. One afternoon I went out and found a nearly 12 inch long mass on the mat where she eats with tissue and blood splattered across the back of the barn and in her water bucket. You can see photos in her album. Luckily the mass was attached via a small stalk and she didn't hemmorrhage to death. It healed without complications and she's now almost 33. 
--
Jennifer in Middle TN  2010
 Mill 32 yrs Arabian-PPID, IR & Pacemaker Dependent
Jack 22 yrs TN Walker- IR & RAO

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jennifer%20and%20Millionairess

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=831

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jennifer%20and%20Jack-TN%20Walker


Re: Sherry and/or Martha. Continued confusion about testing in Canada (TSH/Domperidone)

Suzanne and Pilgrim
 

Hi Martha,

See my vet’s response below following my enquiry…

« TRH is the gold standard test for evaluating the axis but it is not available and that’s where the older references to domperidone etc come up in the ECIR group discussions. I will leave this with Dr….,, to continue working on sourcing the meds for testing and some ideas on costs.

 

Certainly rechecking his endogenous ACTH levels in the spring would be advised as his elevation was borderline this fall and could have been seasonal. »


I’m hoping we can get this done sooner than later with my vet. 

When would you say would be the latest to take Pilgrim off Pergolide for 3 weeks. I’m hoping researching doesn’t take too long…


Suzanne


--


Re: Nose Bleed Senior Horse

Jamie Miller
 

Lori, 

Thank you.  Did your horse have a surgery or the injections of Formalin?  My horse is a senior horse (age 33-34).
--
Jamie Miller
Louisville, Kentucky, USA
July 2019
Horse: Hiram Walker
Walker Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jamie%20and%20Walker
Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=93084
Link to Profile for Hiram Walker


Prascend Dosage & Increased ACTH Levels

Jamie Miller
 

Documents added to Case History Files

Walker's recent CBC and Chem Panel show low RBC, HGB, and HCT.  His current Prascend dosage is 1 1/2 pills per day. Should his dosage be increased?  The vet is doing a fasting insulin test next week.  Any other suggestions?

Antech June 2021: 
RBC 4.8                 Range: 6.5-11.6 106/μL LOW
HGB 9.7                 Range: 11.0-17.0 g/dL LOW
HCT 27                   Range:  32-47 %
Glucose 84             Range: 68-120 mg/dL

Antech December 2021 CBC and Chem: 
RBC 5.5 (LOW)    Range 6.5-11.6              10^6/uL
HGB 10.2 (LOW)  Range: 11.0-17.0             g/dL
HCT 31 (LOW)      Range: 32-47                   %
Glucose 125 (HIGH)   Range: 68-120          mg/dL

Cornell Cushings Test December 2019:
ACTH 80.9 pg/mL   Range: 9-35

Cornell Cushings Test December 2021 (fasting Insulin test next week): 
ACTH 103 pg/mL      Range: 2 - 35

Thank you. 
--
Jamie Miller
Louisville, Kentucky, USA
July 2019
Horse: Hiram Walker
Walker Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jamie%20and%20Walker
Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=93084
Link to Profile for Hiram Walker


Re: Nose Bleed Senior Horse

Lorismorgans
 

My horse had this procedure Last Summer he was in and out and  home the same day.
Vet said it was A somewhat common procedure. Made a world of difference for my horse's comfort. 
Hope this helps

--
Lori, Abel, Bodie & Dusty

2016

Redding, CA

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Lori%20and%20Able%20-%20Bodie%20-%20Dusty

 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6053&p=Name,,,50,2,0,0 .

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