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Re: Year End Report on ECIR Group Inc. Research -- How you can help.
Pamela Swartz
On behalf of our equine partners, I just want to convey how incredibly thankful I am for all you. I’m super excited to be part of an organization that will be funding research to address real-world issues to ultimately help so many horses and owners.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I will continue to donate when I’m able and I will continue to encourage others to do the same. Thank you! 💕🐎💯 Pamela Swartz, L.E. Ninja Skincare PO Box 1217 Nevada City, CA 95959 phone: 925.933.8425 email: Pamela@... website: http://www.NinjaSkincare.com
On Dec 10, 2021, at 11:44 AM, Nancy C <threecatfarm@...> wrote:
--
Pamela Swartz/Vinda, the most awesome Icelandic Nevada City, CA
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Tendon EQ - can I make my own?
I'm in Canada and cannot order Uckele products or find a Canadian dealer. I asked Uckele directly and was told that they don't ship to Canada. If anyone has a different experience, please let me know!
I've been meaning to try Jiaogulan for suspensory ligament concerns but wondering if it would be better to include the other active ingredients in Tendon EQ as well. Would it be safe to source, measure and mix the active ingredients myself? I'd be using either horse or human-grade ingredients. If my ration is already balanced, is it important to include the extra zinc and copper in Tendon EQ? -- Hilary and Amika Prince George, BC, Canada Joined July 2019 Amika's Case History Folder Amika's Photos Folder
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Re: Prascend Dosage & Increased ACTH Levels
Hey Jamie,
Increasing Prascend dosage may require an accompanying dose of APF. I found that increasing any dosage of Prascend was better facilitated with a dose of APF which seemed to help GREATLY the lethargy and inappetence that, many times, accompanies the dose increase. -- Sue R in NC 2021 CASE HISTORY: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sue%20and%20Shifty
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Re: To blanket or not blanket an EMS horse
And you may have updated and I missed it, Sally. I try to compare testing dates to pergolide changes but it’s frequently easy to get lost on that.
-- Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response July 2012
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)
Martha and Logo
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Re: To blanket or not blanket an EMS horse
larkstabatha
Hi Martha... I posted Maisie's most recent ACTH testing results here back in July, and Dr. Kellon recommended I increase Pergolide to 1.5 MG, which I have done, but neglected to update her case history to reflect this... Sorry. I will get that done this weekend. I agree that the Donkey Sanctuary guidelines are most helpful. Thank you, Sally in Big Park, Arizona/April 2013 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sally%20with%20Tabby%20and%20Maisie
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Re: Prascend Dosage & Increased ACTH Levels
Thank you. The 103 ACTH was done 12/9/21, last Thursday. They drew blood prior to sedating him for the scope that identified the ethmoid hematoma.
Next steps, I'll increase to 2 pills per day. On Monday I will have vet draw ACTH, Insulin non-fasting, and glucose testing. He current has access to soaked hay which is provided at night feeding and he typically has some left over to munch in morning. At morning feeding he is given Triple Crown Timothy Balance cubes (9% NSC, I believe). -- Jamie Miller Louisville, Kentucky, USA July 2019 Horse: Hiram Walker Walker Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jamie%20and%20Walker Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=93084 Link to Profile for Hiram Walker
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Re: Prascend Dosage & Increased ACTH Levels
In addition to the suggestions from Sherry and Kirsten, you should also request a glucose test —even though you just received a high glucose test. Insulin values are most useful with a glucose test taken at the same time. Both vary over the course of the day. It’s the relationship of insulin to glucose that informs us of EMS status.
-- Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012 ECIR Group Moderator Cayuse and Diamond Case History Folder Cayuse Photos Diamond Photos
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Re: Dancer's updated Case History and a couple questions
Dancer's Mom
Thank you so much. Dancer does have a small rolling pen but she’s does crow hop and runs a little when she wants to get out. She is fine in there for nothing over an hour. I worry she’d run and crow hop too much and hurt her hooves and make them more sensitive again. Could that happen?
-- Patti Northern California 2021 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Patti%20and%20Dancer
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Re: Dancer's updated Case History and a couple questions
Dancer's Mom
Thank you soooo much for all your info. I appreciate any info from this amazing group. Dancer and I are so grateful.
-- Patti Northern California 2021 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Patti%20and%20Dancer
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Re: Prascend Dosage & Increased ACTH Levels
Hi Jamie,
If Walker's ACTH was at 103 in December and he was on 1.5 Prascend I would say he needs a dose increase. Remember, we recommend you try to keep ACTH in the middle of the normal range, YEAR-ROUND, so no more than the low 20s. I would increase the dose by at least 0.5 and probably 1.0. Do not fast for ACTH testing, it will lower the result artificially. And, as Sherry said, fasting insulin is not very useful. Non-fasted insulin will tell you what Walker's laminitis risk. Fasting insulin will not. Make sure Walker gets his morning hay at least 4 hours before the blood pull, or set out enough overnight hay that you know he will still have some hay left in the morning. -- Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019 Kitimat, BC, Canada ECIR Group Moderator Shaku's Photo Album
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Re: Dancer's updated Case History and a couple questions
Ps. It sounds like Dancer is still on stall rest? Is there a small turnout area or dry lot she can have access to, at least for a few hours a day? It would be great if she can move around a bit on her own, and she might not be quite so excited during your walks that she hurts her feet jumping around. Just make sure the ground is soft or she has padded boots on in the turnout.
-- Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019 Kitimat, BC, Canada ECIR Group Moderator Shaku's Photo Album
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Re: Dancer's updated Case History and a couple questions
Hi Patti,
There's no need to walk her on hard ground if she's still recovering from laminitis. I would stick with what she is most comfortable on, or put her in boots with pads if you find she is tender. Better to protect her hooves while they are healing and growing out the laminitis damage, than to try and toughen them up...that can come later. As for vaccinations, ideally you would check her ACTH and insulin again, after 3 weeks on the prescribed dose, to make sure they are under control and her metabolic condition is stable. But as we are coming out of the seasonal rise and she's on pergolide now, the risk of laminitis being triggered by vaccines is much lower. If you are planning to put Dancer 100% on the Meadow hay in your Case History folder, then you have everything you need to balance her diet. You can contact one of our approved balancers here, or you can sign up for Dr Kellon's next NRC Plus course and learn to do it yourself. -- Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019 Kitimat, BC, Canada ECIR Group Moderator Shaku's Photo Album
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Re: Nose Bleed Senior Horse
He had the surgery.the scope missed it. xrays finally found it. It was located high in sinuses.
Went through below eye. You cannot even tell where he had it. He was 17yrs.. Feel bad. He had small drips and slight bloody discharge for nearly a year. Other vet said it was from itching breaking little veins not to worry. But I know he had headaches, puffy eyes, and ran slight fevers that confounded vets. -- Lori, Abel, Bodie & Dusty 2016 Redding, CA https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Lori%20and%20Able%20-%20Bodie%20-%20Dusty https://ecir.groups.io/g/
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Re: Sherry and/or Martha. Continued confusion about testing in Canada (TSH/Domperidone)
There’s no rush, Suzanne, except that everything takes more time than you expect. Next year’s rise begins 6/21/22 and it’s good to have a plan in place before then. We have a Canadian member whose vet was able to get TRH legally from the States but no names were shared. Your vet might have some leads on that. I haven’t looked back for ‘older’ references to domperidone but certainly Dr. Kellon’s message to you was recent. I have a 40ish yo pony whose ACTH has always been about 30, with or without pergolide. I have to dose him based on his symptoms, which for him include increased urine. I was testing my riding horse Logo so often and basically micromanaging his pergolide as I couldn’t imagine what symptom I could track with him. It turned out that his skin was something I could watch. It’s a skill that usually develops with necessity and experience. Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response July 2012
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)
Martha and Logo
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Re: Prascend Dosage & Increased ACTH Levels
Sherry Morse
As you probably are aware we don't recommend a fasting insulin test as it won't tell you any more than a non-fasting one would. If this ACTH was done before any other procedures it shows that his current dose of Prascend is not enough and needs to be increased. Personally, I would redo the test at the same time as a non-fasting insulin to see if that number was correct or was raised by the nose bleed and anything else that was done prior to the blood draw.
Thanks, Sherry and Scutch (and Scarlet over the bridge) EC Primary Response PA 2014 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sherry%20and%20Scutch_Scarlet https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78891
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Re: Nose Bleed Senior Horse
millionairess1989
Hi Jamie,
My Arabian Millionairess developed an ethmoid hematoma back in 2017 when she was 28 years old. It started as a chronic nasal discharge with nothing remarkable showing on x-rays. One afternoon I went out and found a nearly 12 inch long mass on the mat where she eats with tissue and blood splattered across the back of the barn and in her water bucket. You can see photos in her album. Luckily the mass was attached via a small stalk and she didn't hemmorrhage to death. It healed without complications and she's now almost 33. -- Jennifer in Middle TN 2010 Mill 32 yrs Arabian-PPID, IR & Pacemaker Dependent Jack 22 yrs TN Walker- IR & RAO https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jennifer%20and%20Millionairess https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=831 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jennifer%20and%20Jack-TN%20Walker
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Re: Sherry and/or Martha. Continued confusion about testing in Canada (TSH/Domperidone)
Hi Martha,
See my vet’s response below following my enquiry… « TRH is the gold standard test for evaluating the axis but it is not available and that’s where the older references to domperidone etc come up in the ECIR group discussions. I will leave this with Dr….,, to continue working on sourcing the meds for testing and some ideas on costs.
Certainly rechecking his endogenous ACTH levels in the spring would be advised as his elevation was borderline this fall and could have been seasonal. » I’m hoping we can get this done sooner than later with my vet. When would you say would be the latest to take Pilgrim off Pergolide for 3 weeks. I’m hoping researching doesn’t take too long… Suzanne -- Suzanne and Pilgrim Joined March 2019 Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Suzanne%20and%20Pilgrim https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=90935
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Re: Nose Bleed Senior Horse
Lori,
Thank you. Did your horse have a surgery or the injections of Formalin? My horse is a senior horse (age 33-34). -- Jamie Miller Louisville, Kentucky, USA July 2019 Horse: Hiram Walker Walker Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jamie%20and%20Walker Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=93084 Link to Profile for Hiram Walker
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Prascend Dosage & Increased ACTH Levels
Documents added to Case History Files
Walker's recent CBC and Chem Panel show low RBC, HGB, and HCT. His current Prascend dosage is 1 1/2 pills per day. Should his dosage be increased? The vet is doing a fasting insulin test next week. Any other suggestions? Antech June 2021: RBC 4.8 Range: 6.5-11.6 106/μL LOW
HGB 9.7 Range: 11.0-17.0 g/dL LOW
HCT 27 Range: 32-47 %
-- Glucose 84 Range: 68-120 mg/dL Antech December 2021 CBC and Chem: RBC 5.5 (LOW) Range 6.5-11.6 10^6/uL
HGB 10.2 (LOW) Range: 11.0-17.0 g/dL
HCT 31 (LOW) Range: 32-47 %
Glucose 125 (HIGH) Range: 68-120 mg/dL Cornell Cushings Test December 2019: ACTH 80.9 pg/mL Range: 9-35 Cornell Cushings Test December 2021 (fasting Insulin test next week): ACTH 103 pg/mL Range: 2 - 35 Thank you. Jamie Miller Louisville, Kentucky, USA July 2019 Horse: Hiram Walker Walker Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jamie%20and%20Walker Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=93084 Link to Profile for Hiram Walker
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Re: Nose Bleed Senior Horse
My horse had this procedure Last Summer he was in and out and home the same day.
Vet said it was A somewhat common procedure. Made a world of difference for my horse's comfort. Hope this helps -- Lori, Abel, Bodie & Dusty 2016 Redding, CA https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Lori%20and%20Able%20-%20Bodie%20-%20Dusty https://ecir.groups.io/g/
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