Date   

Re: Lavinia - new mark-ups request

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Kathy,

I've added mark-ups to Magni's album:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=266135&p=Created%2C%2C%2C20%2C2%2C0%2C0

Biggest issues are that the toes need to be backed up to get the breakover set closer to the tip of the frog and the heels are underrun.  The two things commonly go hand-in-hand. There are mild lateral flares on all four feet and the frogs are somewhat elongated, which is masking the fact that the toes have run ahead of where they need to be. This configuration then self-perpetuates as with every step, the heels get driven forward.\. Need to take the toes back thru what appears to be thee white line - or thru that built up ridge of material that is covering the white line. This is not toe callous. Only trim off ragged bits of frog, if needed, leaving s much calloused frog in place as possible. You don't want to expose any of the waxy, immature frog underneath. Check the medio-lateral balance of each foot by measuring both collateral groove depths then comparing them -  you want both to be the same depth, and not less than 1" at their deepest point near the back of the foot. The goal is to have the depth at 3/4" near the apex of the frog. Less than this means DO NOT remove anything as there is already too little material. See here for more:

https://www.hoofrehab.com/HeelHeight.html

https://www.hoofrehab.com/HorsesSole.html

https://www.hoofrehab.com/Balance.html

https://www.hoofrehab.com/Breakover.html

https://www.hoofrehab.com/FrogTrim.html

LF dorsal: Green line follows the angle of the healthier attachments coming in under the coronary band toward the ground. The blue area is the remaining flared material- rasp it inward to match the angle from above, then finish with a bevel at ground level so that the weaker attached wall material isn't involved in weight bearing.

LF lateral: Green line follows the angle of the new growth above - which isn't really visible due to the heavy hair obscuring the coronary band but is indicated by the dishing of the dorsal wall. This isn't a trim line, just a visual for where the dorsal wall will eventually be aligned when the entire hoof capsule stands up straighter and more fully under the bony column. Orange line shows where the heels should be located, again, once they stand up straighter. Blue area is where the toe needs to be backed up between 10 and 2.

LF sole: Solid blue line is where to bring the toe back/walls in to, with the hashed areas all the material that needs to be removed. Finish with a bevel all around. The wall on the medial side is intentionally left untouched as that isn't flared so doesn't need to be pulled inward. Take the walls in the heel buttresses completely out of weight bearing, allowing the bar to be the highest point there. See figures 2 and 3 here:

https://www.hoofrehab.com/HeelHeight.html

Lightly ramp the bars (yellow hashes) up to the buttresses but don't remove any height from them once you get to the wall-bar juncture. Ramp the heel buttresses behind the wall-bar juncture back toward the heel bulbs (orange hashes). Nothing off the sole.

RF dorsal: Same idea as the LF, with the blue area the remaining slight flare.

RF lateral: Follow the discussion for the LF. Notice that this one isn't as dished as the LF is.

RF sole: Same as the LF.

LH dorsal: Again, a bit of lateral flare to bring in.

LH lateral: Same idea as the fronts, tho the toe isn't as far forward.

LH sole: Blue solid line is where to pull the toe back to and the lateral wall flare inward to. Leave the heels alone except to add a ramp to the backs of them to help ease landings and encourage them to stand up a bit more. Preserve all the vertical height there is.

RH dorsal: Same ideas the LH.

RH lateral: Again, pull in the blue area. Green and orange lines are visual markers, not trim lines.

RH sole: Same as the other three.

If you have less than 1" depth to the collateral grooves at their deepest points and/or less than 3/4" near the apex of the frog, Magni should be wearing padded boots to protect his soles. Work to produce consistent heel-first landings on whatever footing he is on as toe-first is never what you want to see.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


Re: Lavinia and who ever new pics posted for critique

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 
Edited

Hi Julie,

Hang in there, you're making progress. I took a look at the photos and relabeled the hinds as they were reversed. You have the dates done correctly, just need to identify the hooves after the date, rather than before. Take a look at how I've labeled the hind feet laterals to see how all the photos should be labeled to keep them sorting properly in your album over time:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/photo/271132/3365123?p=Created%2C%2C%2C20%2C2%2C0%2C0

The trim is moving in the right direction but looks like it still needs some tweaks. All four feet appear to be laterally high - or they might be medially low. You get the same result when looking at them but the fix depends on which problem is actually present. If the medial side is too low, DO NOT lower the lateral side to match - instead, allow the medial side to catch up. Heels appear to be too low relative to the vertical height in the front half of the feet - more so on the hinds than the fronts. Frogs should only have ragged bits removed in the future while leaving the calloused frog in place to protect the immature, waxy frog from being exposed. Looks like the toes could be pulled back a bit more at ground level but NOT if the soles are that thin right now.

Where is that 2mm collateral groove depth reading from  - near the apex of the frog or at the deepest point near the back of the foot? You are looking to have 15-18mm of depth so either way, the soles are critically thin and Cookie should be in padded boots at all times.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


Re: Cushings

 

Thank you, Melissa.  I don’t recall if you told us what type of hay testing your report reflects.  That’s where a case history saves you the aggravation of our asking the same question repetitively.  If you knew what the mineral composition of your hay was, you could supplement it much more accurately, which is always beneficial, especially to metabolically challenged horses.  We recommend the 603 Trainer analysis from Equi- Analytical.  You can have other places do it as long as the description is the same.  Alfalfa makes some horses footsore, having nothing to do with sugars or starches, but if he’s had it before, he’s not likely affected.  It can affect the mineral balancing of your forage.

The test your vet chose to determine his PPID status is often used as a first time test.  Two samples are drawn, before and after hormone stimulation.  In early cases, the pre stim test is often normal while the hormone stimulated results are quite high so, without TRH, the blood results are negative.  The fact that Nevada’s ACTH is elevated in the first draw makes the results from the second draw less meaningful.

As you suggest, I think it’s wise to keep an eye on his IR status.  His insulin might go down a bit with lower ACTH which would be reassuring.   
--

Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Re: Cushings

Sherry Morse
 

Melissa was this bloodwork done fasting or not?  At 72 you know there's no doubt that Nevada is PPID and you probably want to recheck him no later than March or April so you have time to adjust his dose if needed prior to the seasonal rise.




Re: Cushings

Melissa Starks
 

I was able to get his lab results for his cushing confirmation and hay reports. Added to case history photos.
--
Melissa in NV 2022

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=271546


Re: NEW Mule and owner need support please

larkstabatha
 

You are welcome Marlene!  However, Dr. Kellon and Nancy C. get credit for creating the folder and also added several new files.  I am glad to hear that you and Shadow had a good day!
--
Sally in Big Park, Arizona/April 2013

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sally%20with%20Tabby%20and%20Maisie 

  

 

 


Re: Lavinia and who ever new pics posted for critique

Julie Allen
 

Dr K, 

2mm on both fronts measured with a tool not a guess.. 


--
Julie 
Boring , Oregon 
2009
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Julie%20Allen%20and%20Callie%20and%20Cookie
Callie photo album:https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245704
Cookie photo album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=271132


Re: Lavinia and who ever new pics posted for critique

Julie Allen
 

i guess I am not understanding what I need to do different I named them I put the date on them in the correct format ... 

im sorry my pathetic brain is not understanding what you are asking me to do.. 


--
Julie 
Boring , Oregon 
2009
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Julie%20Allen%20and%20Callie%20and%20Cookie
Callie photo album:https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245704
Cookie photo album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=271132


Re: Timothy Cubes

Aurelio Henriques
 

Regarding availability of Timothy Balance cubes,
    Best is still to email us at info@...
I monitor that email
or phone: 519-524-1063

--
Aurelio Henriques
Ontario Dehy Inc.


Re: NEW Mule and owner need support please

Marlene Quiring
 

Thank you Sally for getting that donkey and mule information up! I have read through most of it, although much flies over my head right now! I am attempting to make what changes I can with my mule Shadow, including penning her up for part of the day with a few whisps of hay only to chew on, and for the most time the other mules are in sight so she doesn't get too stressed. Blood was drawn yesterday to check if she might also have Cushings. I don't really think so, but this will tell. On the bright side, it was warm enough today, so we went for a 20 minute ride in the snow. She seemed a bit sore walking on the hard packed trail, but once in the deep snow, she was happy to trot and moved very freely. So she got some exercise. One day at a time, I guess?

Regards,
Marlene Quiring
 
Cell - 403 783-1723
Home - 403 783-5210
Box 29, Site 5, RR 2, Ponoka, AB. T4J 1R2


--
Marlene Quiring from Central Alberta, joined 2022
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Marlene%20and%20Shadow
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=271458


Re: Just diagnosed PPID

 
Edited

That most likely has been too long but if you find out what their holding period is, please let us know, Dawn.  Below is a link to the E-A testing page.  The test we recommend is the 603 Trainer.  Some people use the 644 Carb Pack if they have several hays under consideration but sugar/starch is their prime consideration.  They then follow up with the 603 Trainer on the one that fits with their sugar/starch requirements.


--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Re: Just diagnosed PPID

Dawn Hernandez
 

Thank you so much for this information! I wasn’t aware of the differences in testing. Unfortunately, the sample was received by Equi-Analytical on 9/13. I can contact them but I’m thinking it may be too old.

For the next sample - what should I do different with submitting my samples? I have a hay supply from 3 different fields and will be testing each one accordingly.

Thanks again.
--
Dawn Marie & Dalli
Eliot, ME

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Dawn%20and%20Dalli

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=271623



Re: Lavinia and who ever new pics posted for critique

 

Julie, if you go to this link, all your photos will appear with the image name superimposed on each.  Those are the names we’re asking you to change.  Right now, it’s easy to find them because they’re the most recent but when you begin adding more, it helps us to find them if we all follow the same naming convention.
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Re: Lavinia and who ever new pics posted for critique

Julie Allen
 

Pretty sure I did that 
year , month , day 
I cannot do any better than that .. 

--
Julie 
Boring , Oregon 
2009
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Julie%20Allen%20and%20Callie%20and%20Cookie
Callie photo album:https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245704
Cookie photo album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=271132


Re: Lavinia and who ever new pics posted for critique

Deb Walker
 

Hi Julie - I got frustrated over pictures, labeling, etc. at first too. What the group wants is for the date to be first...that way the files auto list them most recent to oldest. Hang in there.
--
Deb and Scotty I/R, PPID
Pecatonica Illinois, May 13, 2019
Case History:
 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Deb%20and%20Scotty
Photos:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=90619


Re: Calming Supplement

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Patti,

The answer here is to give her more turnout time.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Whole Chia Seeds and Fecal Water Syndrome Now AniMed MuscleUP Powder

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Gamma oryzanol is very poorly absorbed.  I once did a field trial of all equine GO products to check for muscle bulking. The only one that had any effect was Equiade's Body Builder.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Calming Supplement

Dancer's Mom
 

Dancer seems to be feeling good enough to start being more forward at our walks. Now, Dancer has had more frequent episodes where she crow hops and bucks in the small rolling pen (I do put front cloud boots on, when she’s out). The next day, from those episodes, she doesn’t want to walk cuz she’s probably sore, in the front. Is there any CBD supplement that could help Dancer be calmer?  Just let me know. Thank you so much. 
 y
--
Patti
Northern California 2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Patti%20and%20Dancer


Re: Just diagnosed PPID

 
Edited

As Lavinia points out, the particular hay analysis package you have doesn't reliably determine ESC+starch for equines with EMS. If the analysis is recent, you can contact Equi-Analytical to ask if the sample is still on hand in the lab. If so, the lab can add analyses for ESC and Starch by wet chemistry.  You need your sample number. 
Email: https://equi-analytical.com/contact/ 
Phone: 1-877-819-4110

If ESC+Starch turns out to be safe, the mineral analysis you have is fine for balancing the diet. 
--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse and Diamond Case History Folder                
Cayuse Photos                Diamond Photos


Re: Whole Chia Seeds and Fecal Water Syndrome Now AniMed MuscleUP Powder

 

Hi, Sally. The tiny amount of most active ingredients in an ounce make me skeptical of claims that AniMed Muscle-Up was responsible for a big improvement in anything. MadBarn has a handy online calculator that's instructive. Adjust the quantity from 1000 gram feeding rate to 29 grams (a generous ounce). https://madbarn.ca/feeds/muscle-up-animed/ 

One ingredient, Gamma oryzanol, was quite the nutraceutical darling, but I couldn't find anything definitive on Google Scholar. Dr Kellon will know if it has real potential. 
--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse and Diamond Case History Folder                
Cayuse Photos                Diamond Photos

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