Re: Can missing 2 doses of Prasend cause veil?

Kirsten Rasmussen

Hi Julanne,

If her dose didn't increase, then it is not the veil occurring several weeks after missing 2 doses.  I don't think missing only 2 doses could cause a veil when restarted anyways.

It has been suggested here several times that a lack of interest in food other than hay could be due to ulcers.

Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album

Re: Weight Tape

Starshine Ranch

Thank you, Kim... that is what I was wondering.  330 for inches.   I also use a weight tape every time I ride and weigh after the ride so I can be as consistent as possible... it's not the exact weight but it will show a loss or gain.
Linda in CA  2020  Midnight and Ostara

Re: Lavinia please would you look at Lillie's latest Xray & front feet problem please

Kirsten Rasmussen

I downloaded your case history to check your Devil's Claw dose and see if you were giving jiaogulan, and although you uploaded the file on Feb 6, it was last updated in August, so the newer information is missing.  You said its updated so did you upload the wrong version by chance?  How much Devil's claw are you giving?  There is likely room to try increasing the dose.

If she is working out an abscess, then the Bute will slow down its resolution, whereas adding jiaogulan will speed it up.  If you're going to poultice, you might want to put 100% effort on the abscess resolution.  Typically, once you hit the extreme pain stages they will erupt within a few days.  Since her last insulin was so low, and assuming her management is the same so its likely still low, the pain you are seeing is probably abscess or cold-weather (if you are having cold temperatures?) related.  Lowering her heels might also reduce some of the pain.

Don't forget with Bute it should be tapered off to avoid rebound pain.  So first spread out the time between doses, rather than reducing doses, then start reducing doses, as per this example schedule:

Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album

Best Grazing Muzzle ?


Feedback on the safest grazing muzzles *Pros & *Cons to certain designs out on the market?

Hampshire, IL
2021 | Erika and Amex

Re: Compounding Pharmacies - Avrio


I moved Tipperary from pergolide in oil to pergolide in capsules after his December ACTH numbers rose to the highest they had ever been.(72, normal under 30 and the board and Dr. Kellon were concerned the oil was losing potency with time.  The Rx had been filled by Aviro and 90 days of 10mg. caps was $326. I have not had him rechecked as of yet to see if his numbers have reduced. I also plan to pay the extra $10 for 2 day shipping from Fed Ex next time as the $9 I paid for UPS resulted in a ten day shipping timeframe. He is symptomatically  much better, as he has not had any further issues with COPD since i put him back on capsules.

I personally have a concern with using any compounding pharmacy that is not accredited. Maybe that is not justified, but it is one more level of scrutiny that I think helps provide some security as the quality of the Rx when you are having  a medication compounded. The only accredited compounding pharmacies I've used for pergolide is Wedgewood and Aviro/Pet Health.

I used Thriving Pets about ten years ago, then again three or four years ago. Never again .Ian is not a pharmacist, he is a business owner who runs a pet care and health supply business online.  Thriving Pets disappeared ten years ago when the pharmacy Ian was using in Colorado was cited for several issues( none were severe, but they ended up closing permanently and Ian decided to leave) . He then popped up in PA, and contacted me via email to let me know he had a new pharmacy, new business website, etc. I ended up getting pergolide capsules for a few Rx. then his website went dead, and I couldn't get refills. I ended up having my vet get the Rx. from Wedgewood which required overnight shipping, etc. I used Wedgewood for a few Rx. then went to Pet Health because of pricing AND because my vet complains that Wedgewood is a PITA to order from. 

One thing to keep in mind is that many vets do not want to Rx compounded pergolide for various reasons.  If you ask to use an accredited pharmacy, that can help assure them the meds are quality. Making it as easy as possible for them to order is another. 
Dawn Wagstaff and Tipperary   

Saline, MI  2003

Tipperary Case History

Juniper Case history: .

Re: Full Bucket


Hi, Ann. Just to expand a bit on this product. We don’t  know how fragile your equine is or how well it’s EMS is controlled. The daily dose is a very small  at 17.5 grams. The alfalfa and molasses components are similar to those in Strongid C2X, a feed thru dewormer some of us use to treat tapeworms.

If I were struggling with a laminitic horse, maybe I wouldn’t use this product. If my horse is doing well and EMS is well-managed, I would use it at the rate on the label. It’s a very expensive product and I wouldn’t waste it. 
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse and Diamond Case History Folder                
Cayuse Photos                Diamond Photos

Re: Lavinia please would you look at Lillie's latest Xray & front feet problem please


Thanks very much for your response & saving Lavinia having to reply to me.
Your description of the bevel makes perfect sense, & to be honest not unlike hair cutting on a bevel  (  I used to be hairdresser so makes sense to me ) !
So this is how I think I'm going forward :  I'm looking for no hoof contact on floor, bevelled at toe to ensure no leverage, but no need to shorten toe. Heels can come down according to how much is required to get the joint bones straight. This might be possible in one, or multiple trims depending on comfort. Nothing off frog. Nothing off forward of the frog apex to the toe.  No rasping on outside of hoof wall.

I looked for the Numotizine suggested by Lavinia to help draw if there is an abscess, but seems out of stock in UK, only one tub for £69. So I found an option of Green clay that can be mixed with a gel for poltice. Otherwise I could use the normal drawing Animalantix & be careful not to dampen it too much if not. Otherwise so far I've not seen another option that looks promising.

Finally I'm concerned about still giving Bute it's been two weeks now. Without it, using Devil's Claw on its own she's in too much pain. I tried giving half a sachet for a couple of days & it didn't help then.  I'm concerned after 2 weeks & getting up infrequently that she will find things even more difficult. Any suggestions that might help her. Please note I normally use Devils Claw & advocate its effectiveness both for my donkey & me. So I'm a total convert with using Devils Claw, she just needs something more right now.

Hopefully as soon as the farrier/vet get here this week I can get some improvement moving forward.

Thanks for being there all of you.

March 2021

Re: Compounding Pharmacies - wedged in Wedgewood


Thanks for this thread.  I use a vet service who prefers Wedgewood and presents a really convincing argument if you question it.  I'm paying $183.75 for 100 count of 2 mg chewable tablets and currently dosing 6 mg per day and more during seasonal rise.
I'm spending $6.00 per day!!!!
Keep me in your thoughts as I try to convince the current vet to let me get my script elsewhere.  I checked out the pharmacies discussed in this thread and any one of them will reduce my costs significantly.

Thanks for listening.

Joy and Emmy
WI, Feb 2019  

Re: Compounding Pharmacies - Avrio

Nancy & Vinnie & Summer

I have been using my vets website from Covetrus and they use Wedgewood for compounding. I know they have other formulations available, but my capsules that I have been using 1.2mg (x 2 for Summer) (x2 plus .60 for Vinnie) are ~ 116.00 for the .60 for 90 days and ~118.00 for the 1.2.capsule for 90 days.

I called Wedgewood to see what formulations they had and if were comparable to the available capsule mg options at Avrio and they did seem to have the same options..I don't know cost because they said they would need RX and qty to provide the cost.
Nancy and Vinnie and Summer
Oakley, Ca
Joined Nov 2018


Re: Compounding Pharmacies - Avrio


Re: Compounding Pharmacies - Avrio

Joy V

Laura, thank you for taking the time to respond to us.  I contacted Avrio and they're sending a new bottle & adaptor.  This time the adaptor was too small and would have fallen into the bottle of medicine if I had tried to put it in the opening.  

Hope you're doing well, take care!


Joy and Willie (EC/IR)
Nevada County, CA - 2019

Case history:
Willie's photo album:

Re: Maggie stiffness in rear end Dr. K please

Bobbie Day

Thanks for the article Nancy
No we have no pasture here, I have seen these in my yard though. We used to let her graze on our front lawn while treating her feet and legs but everything is brown here and that won’t be happening anymore. It is interesting though, the vet here thought she may have gotten in the fence and injured her butt muscles but we keep a very good eye and have a camera on her, besides there’s no evidence of damage to any of her panels. And she hardly ever moves from her spot under her cover so I am just not convinced that’s what happened. I really think something’s going on with her muscles though. It’s tough with very small vet practices.
I did order her some PQ since Dr.K mentioned her hocks. I may have to get the vet over to try to get X-rays, I just know he won’t do it without sedation. Uggg
Thank you for the article!

Bobbie and Maggie
Desi (over the rainbow bridge 7/21)
Utah, Nov 2018
NRC Plus 2020, NAT, C&IR March 2021
ECIR Group Primary Response

Re: Fasting before blood pull for triglycerides?


Thank you, Eleanor!  As always, we need more research on this subject!  

My thoughts were that we want to check the triglycerides when the horse is in a normal state, ie, non-fasted, but I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something.  :)
Merlin and Maggie (over the bridge), Gypsy, Ranger
Smithers, BC 09 .

Re: Compounding Pharmacies - Avrio

Laura Risley

Hi Everyone,

I'm sorry to hear of the struggles with the cost increase.  Unfortunately, I am no longer an employee of Avrio Pharmacy, so I won't be able to explore the increases/discrepancies in more detail.  In general, I know that the prices were not increased in the last couple years at Pet Health and so the cost of making the pergolide might have gotten too close to the price charged.  Also, the cost of the drug itself may have increased and/or labor cost might have increased.  These are possible reasons why Avrio may have increased prices.  As far as discrepancies in the increases, one thing that may be a factor is day supply - Avrio tends to have price breaks with higher quantities, whereas Pet Health did not, so if you were getting a 90 day supply you might see a smaller increase than someone getting 30 day supply.  That's the only thing that comes to mind on the discrepancies.  I wish I could be there to help in more detail.

Heather, you might just give them a call and have them confirm the cost of that 7mg - it does seem like quite a huge increase (the price does seem to be going in proportion to the drug quantity - a little over twice the drug as the 3mg at a little over twice the cost).  

Joy, I'm sorry about the adapter troubles.  If you contact Avrio, they can mail you the correct adapter size.  The ribs on the correct adapter might appear to be too big, this ensures a snug fit - the top of the adapter, however, should be flush with the opening of the bottle.  If you request it, they can put the adapter in for you.

Since I am no longer with Avrio, I do not directly know the reason for the increases/discrepancies - these are just my thoughts.  They may be able to give more insight.  I'm sorry that I cannot do more to alleviate your concerns.

I'm here if you guys need me, best wishes.

Laura Risley, PharmD
Owner of Bo and Sid
Phoenix, AZ 
Joined 2021

Re: Maggie stiffness in rear end Dr. K please

Nancy & Vinnie & Summer

Can missing 2 doses of Prasend cause veil?

Julanne Baker

 Oreo missed 2 doses of Prasend December 31 and January 1 due to a delay in shipping caused by holiday backup.
Within a week of continuing her 1 mg. daily dosage, she began refusing the pill in her Stabul 1. I tried dissolving it with water and ukele peppermint syrup mixing it into her Stabul 1 along with her Thyro L. (She has been getting the Thyro L mixed into the Stabul 1/ syrup mixture for a year and eating it happily)She refused that, so I have been syringing it into her mouth. Now she is not finishing the Stabul 1 / ThyroL syrup mixture either. I began 6 mg. APF a few days ago . Last night, she was not interested in her food at all and simply stared at the wall on the opposite side.  She does eat her hay. 
Could this be the veil again? She is still getting 30. + minutes of trotting 5 days per week.

Re: Compounding Pharmacies - Thriving Pets

ferne fedeli

MixLab is not on our list either, so it does need to be updated.  I just asked for a quote from MixLab.  Great that it is in CA.  I might get slightly faster delivery that way...   Thanks so much for the info, Nancy.


Ferne Fedeli  Magic & Jack   2007

Point Arena, Mendocino County, California
Case History



PPID prevalance

Rhonda Turley

The boarding barn where I keep Scooter(PPID and EMS/IR) has another PPID horse just diagnosed recently(This owner did listen to me when I suggested testing for PPID). There is also another horse who was diagnosed with IR a year ago (but this horse has the symptoms of PPID.  I  have suggested to the owner that she have him tested for PPID as well but no response). A third horse was put down due to SL Desmitis over a year ago (but appeared to me exhibiting PPID symptoms.  I suggested to the owner that her mare needed to be tested for PPID, but no response.)  Currently the barn only has a total of 20 horses including my Scooter.  Is this prevalence normal??

Rhonda Turley
Brampton, Ontario
April 2020
Scooter and Rhonda

Re: Ambient temp / accurate serum insulin?


Dang, ok.  Much appreciated!
Thank you

Re: Ambient temp / accurate serum insulin?

Sherry Morse

Temperatures under 50 will cause elevations in insulin levels.

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