Date   

Re: Horse Treat?

Tamara Gonsor
 

I also certainly pass on this, before I even posted. 

Thank you Dr. Kellen for the detailed explanation. I, like many others here I'm sure, keep up on what's introduced in the horse industry. It blows my mind stuff like this.

I won't be giving any horse sugar, no matter what form it's in.

--
Tamara G. in Cave Creek, Arizona 2020
Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Tamara%20and%20Malik
Malik Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=252564


Re: WAS: Mixlab Order NOW: Finger cots

billie hinton
 

Thanks, Nancy and Eleanor. Very helpful and appreciated! For now we aren’t having to split the tablets as both Keil Bay and the pony are doing well on 1 tablet each per day. I like the blister packs because when we were splitting to give the pony his 1/2 tab, you could do it inside the blister pack and never even touch it. I keep the Prascend in the house and it’s very easy to take to the barn and open right before administering. As long as these two don’t need a lot more per day, it’s a good option for us.

Best,
Billie in NC


Re: Triple Crown Golden Flax - Gone bad?

Anthie Booras
 

I do something similar when it comes to storing my Triple Crown flax. I keep both the flax and my cool stance at home not at the barn because I don’t want them to get too warm since I know I don’t use either of them that fast. When I open a new bag I baggie it up in gallon size bags and then store those gallon size bags in the tall screwtop 80 pound vittles vault container. I take one of the gallon bags at a time each of the flax and cool stance to take to the barn to make grain bags with. On top of that I only opened that particular bag at the barn once a week when I make bags. Otherwise it’s sealed up.
--
- Anthie

Northern California
August 2015

Erin's case history: 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Anthie%20and%20Erin/

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=269097


Re: Calcium ionate

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 
Edited

Yes, calcium iodate is fine.  For vitamin E, use only the alpha-tocopherol. Acetate is a stabilized form but always best to give alone and with oil.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Triple Crown Golden Flax - Gone bad?

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Just for the record, Omega Horseshine is fine and won't upset any diet.

Heat from a coffee grinder won't damage the omegas. They also survive baking.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Fw: Stabul 1 Through Chewy

Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 


Re: Horse Treat?

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

If this really is isomaltulose, rather than an "analog" of isomaltulose (whatever that's supposed to mean), most of the statements are basically correct but....

To get any advantage from it for physical exercise or glycogen sparing the horse would have to eat between 120 and 500 g and all advantages disappear if you wait 4 hours after eating to begin exercise. The slower absorption would not be beneficial for glycogen repletion.

It does not actually stimulate fat burning. Because the glucose and insulin peaks are lower, there is less of the temporary fat burning suppression that happens after high sugar ingestion. There is no  long term beneficial effect on blood cholesterol and lipid abnormalities in IR humans.

In normal humans, the insulin peak is approximately 2.5 times baseline compared to 5 times baseline for table sugar. IR also improves in humans but these are all trials where table sugar is replaced by isomaltulose, usually to the tune of 50 g/day for a human.

The reference to "fermented" is false. There is no fermentation involved. The structure of sucrose is altered by a series of enzymatic reactions. There is no bacterial fermentation. Bacteria do not ferment sugars to other sugars. They break them down and use them for food, usually fermenting them to lactate.

My concerns, beyond whether or not it is isomaltulose or some "analog", is no equine data. Food spends a lot  more time in the human stomach and small intestine for digestion than it does in the horse. There could be spill over. We also know foods considered low glycemic index and safe for humans, like oats, are definitely not OK for horses.

Then there's the ridiculous price....

I pass.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Triple Crown Golden Flax - Gone bad?

celestinefarm
 

Just like with Pergolide, we need to expect the price of Flax to continue to rise along with shipping. Flax is a commodity, just like grain or hay. Last year there was a significant drought thoughout the flax growing states of the US and the provinces in Canada, which affected harvest amounts. Also, flax acreage fluctuates with market and growing conditions, less acreage was planted in flax overall in the US resulting in less product. Market conditions will dictate the availability and cost of flax. There are other products that are Omega 3 rich, but they all have drawbacks. Other seeds such as Chia are much more expensive, oils may or may not be acceptable to the horse( fish oil comes to mind) and Omega Horseshine is no longer pure flax, but has vitamins and minerals added, which might imbalance a carefully balanced diet. 

--I"m currently on subscription for Turtle Mountain Flax. I get 25#'s once a month for $68 including shipping. I have found the Turtle Mountain Flax to be not only fresh, but it's more of a ground flax than a flour which is what Triple Crown's flax form seems to be. It's advertised as cold milled, meaning the temperature of the seed is the same through storage of seed, milling and packaging. In other words, no heat to affect the Omega 3s.
This brings to mind a question. I've used a coffee grinder to grind coffee beans and the grounds are always warm. Does grinding flax seeds in a grinder signifcantly heat the flax seed, resulting in loss of Omega's?
For information on flax milling, here is Turtle Mountain's info page. FAQs — Turtle Mountain Flax



Dawn Wagstaff and Tipperary   

Saline, MI  2003

Tipperary Case History

Juniper Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Dawn%20and%20Juniper/Case%20history%20Juniper.pdf .


Re: NO WAY! CHEWY IS OUT OF STABUL 1!!! I

Jeanne Q
 

Banana is back in stock as of this morning.  I did get an email from Chewy.
--
Jeanne Q MN 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jeanne%20&%20Glory
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=241360


Re: Mixlab Order

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Billie,

I agree that's safe.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Calcium ionate

Marie
 

Good afternoon,
is calcium iodate good source of iodine for horses? Is 50% tocopherylacetate stabil in the mineral balancer or is better give it alone with oil?


Thank you
--
Marie Volsicka
Mid Europe
2021


Horse Treat?

Tamara Gonsor
 

There is so much that hits the market. Does this make any sense or is it real about sugar?
New treats for horses. The reason I am asking is because people are being told that it is ok and it gives me an eyebrow raise. Just like the coconut craze, where everything was made from coconut and said to be good for horses. 

https://www.cuatxtack.com/products/sweetbite-stable-edition
Sweet Bite - Better Sugar for Horses!

What is CAVATINOS?
CAVATINOS is an analog of Isomaltulose.
CAVATINOS is a trademark of Nutricheval AB, Sweden, and this is a raw material for the production of Sweet Bite better sugar for horses.

Through a stabilized enzymatic preparation, the sugar is converted into CAVATINOS -
the chemical name is 6-O- -D-glucopyranosyl-D-fructofuranose.  It is a disaccharide essentially composed of a molecule of glucose and another of fructose. The difference between sugar beet sucrose and I CAVATINOS (isomaltulose) is the chemical bond, making CAVATINOS a low glycemic index carbohydrate.

How do molecules react in the body?
Unlike other carbohydrates, such as glucose and table sugar, CAVATINOS prevents
insulin spikes in the body.  These insulin spikes cause your horse to have energy
quickly available, but this energy also runs out too fast.

Sweet Bite prevents these spikes, developing energy that lasts longer. CAVATINOS (isomaltulose) undergoes much slower digestion than any other carbohydrate, which means it will release insulin much more evenly into the blood, promoting a stable and lasting energy boost, making training performance significantly more powerful.

Benefits of Sweet Bite (CAVATINOS) for horses?
CAVATINOS (isomaltulose) provides energy to your horse but not only!
It also acts as a macronutrient (carbohydrate) supplement that is valuable for the horse diet. The advantage of using CAVATINOS in replacement of other carbohydrate
supplements its gradual action, which ensures energy for the body for several hours of
the day, while other supplements have energy spikes per minute, and then this energy
ends.

Another valuable advantage of Sweet Bite (CAVATINOS) is in cases where it is
necessary to reduce fat mass.  CAVATINOS helps burn fat by activating the metabolism of adipose tissue (stored fat), mobilizing cells that will be used to continue generating energy.

Here is a list of the main benefits of Sweet Bite (CAVATINOS) and why this carbohydrate is so helpful for sport horses, convalescents, breeding horses, and ponies.
Help in the loss of fat mass in favor of muscle mass;
• Low glycemic index;
• Better absorption of other nutrients;
• It produces stable energy for the body and for longer;
• Slows down muscle fatigue during training;
• Reduces hunger during and after physical activities;
• Although it is a type of "sugar," it does not cause tooth decay and plaque;
• Regulates blood glucose levels.

Why is Sweet Bite (CAVATINOS) good for horses?
Sweet Bite is a carbohydrate source released very evenly in the blood, making sure
your horse has energy during training, with no ups and downs in the training session.
In addition, it preserves muscle glycogen stores, thus avoiding muscle fatigue
(tiredness) during training.
It can also be considered quite effective when you want to increase muscle mass and
get better results in training both in disciplines that require intense strength and those
who practice long-lasting exercises (endurance).

Why did it say 99.9% sugar in the box?
Sweet Bite contains only sugar as the only ingredient.
This is because sugar, once fermented by the action of bacteria (CAVATINOS), does
not need other substances to maintain its effectiveness. 99.9% natural.
Without preservatives or dyes!

CAVATINOS VS Table (regular) sugar
CAVATINOS is a type of carbohydrate supplement that differs from ordinary sugar for
the benefits it provides to sport horses, the type of absorption, and the quality of the
energy it produces.  It promotes a stable energy increase for much longer and without generating insulin spikes in the body.  So this can be considered today as the revolution of sports integration!

Are fermented sugar Sweet Bite (CAVATINOS) and table (regular) sugar the same?
Although they may look very similar to the eye, fermented and ordinary (table) sugar is very different.  Nutritionally fermented sugar Sweet Bite (CAVATINOS) has characteristics that make it a noble food and specifically suitable for training sports horses.  To make a comparison, we can think of fermented sugar as a food enriched by the action and presence of bacteria and fermentative enzymes.  As we find in other foods such as Kefir, it is widely used and known for its countless benefits obtained from regular fresh milk.

--
Tamara G. in Cave Creek, Arizona 2020
Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Tamara%20and%20Malik
Malik Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=252564


WAS: Mixlab Order NOW: Finger cots

Nancy C
 

Hi billie

Here is the  NIH sheet on Presecnd

https://dailymed.nlm.nih.gov/dailymed/fda/fdaDrugXsl.cfm?setid=455e5d97-f639-472b-b93b-88b9174a0310&type=display

They talk about care when splitting the tabs, which would generate loose product. Compound caps may have loose residue. My take is they are giving us the finger cots out of caution.

--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2021-2022



Re: Prascend side effects and recommendations please

Geneviève
 

I do not have an ophtalmologist, but my vet is a very skilled surgeon and vet, and he is the one who removed her right eye a few years ago. He confirmed glaucoma based on clinical signs (unfortunately he does not have access to a tonometer) and he ruled out uveitis. I am attaching a couple of photos of the eye from November, it looks even more cloudy now. I cannot get Phyto-Quench here but will definitely get the antioxydants from Herbs for horses.

My vet just suggested this morning we retest her now before deciding to resume any treatment for Cushings, so he agrees with you. Thank you for your input!

Photos: https://photos.app.goo.gl/a5MazdSVGVujB1D77
https://photos.app.goo.gl/59hQS37ihEVagPKb8

--

Geneviève Benoit (Ontario, Canada, joined originally in 2007, rejoined in 2022)

The Natural Horse, sound in mind and body, naturally!

Le Cheval au Naturel, sain de corps et d'esprit, naturellement!
 

 


Re: Prascend side effects and recommendations please

Geneviève
 

Thank you, I actually order various suppleements on a regular basis from this local company, so will definitely get this one!

--

Geneviève Benoit (Ontario, Canada, joined originally in 2007, rejoined in 2022)

The Natural Horse, sound in mind and body, naturally!

Le Cheval au Naturel, sain de corps et d'esprit, naturellement!
 

 


Re: Mixlab Order

billie hinton
 

I’m wondering if when using Prascend I need to be using some kind of finger cot? I haven’t been - it’s fairly easy to pop the pill out of the blister pack with no handling but the pony will only take his in a tablespoon or so of Keil Bay’s mid-day wet feed, and that requires more handling than when I fed it in a little horse muffin.

I have been assuming the Prascend tablets are coated and therefore safe to handle minimally?

Thanks!
Billie in NC


Re: Time to Retest?

Vicki Rucker
 

Thanks, Dr. Kellon. I'm checking with my vet to see if they are able to do this test. If not, I will find a vet nearby who can perform the test.
--
Vicki and Wendy
Middle TN, 2021


Re: Mixlab Order

threehorsefarm
 

Jennifer, sorry if I have missed earlier posts about cost, but what was the price for the 26 mg?     My gelding is on 20 from Avrio and I may need to switch. 

Besides cost,      twice when Avrio was Pets Health they indicated to my vet that 18 to  20 was the high end, that they didn't have very many customers filling  at that level, and he came away with new concerns about prescribing.   Since others have indicated they are on 22 and 23 and 26 (not you) over the years, from Pets Health, I didn't appreciate having to meet with my vet and go through the entire negotiation process TWICE  to keep compounding because of that. 

Robyn & Slim 
Kansas 2012 


On Wed, Feb 23, 2022 at 2:47 PM millionairess1989 via groups.io <millionairess1989=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
I received my first order from Mixlab and put a photo in Mill's album.

This was quite the experience! Opening up compounded medication has never so exciting before and I do it weekly at a vet hospital. Then most I get is a sticker or maybe a mini package of peanut M&Ms :)

The order arrived via UPS the next day. This was somewhat surprising as Monday was a holiday and Mill is on an uncommon strength of Pergolide at 26mg.

There were boxes for each horse in a bright, cheery yellow with labels on each one with a joke typed out. The box contents were wrapped in tissue paper sealed with a sticker like a gift.

They clearly like color! The capsules are yellow. The bottles are purple and marked with warning labels every color of the rainbow. (Red- Veterinary Use Only, Yellow-Hazardous, Green-Store At Room Temp, Blue-Wash Hands After Handling, White-Compounded At Direction Of Prescriber, plus another huge Yellow-Hazardous on the packages). Somewhere else was a caution against pregnant women handling.

Also included were latex finger cots for administering, the Pergolide drug information from Plumb's drug book and cards saying "made with love for Millionairess" and another listing the drug and directions. 
--
Jennifer in Middle TN  2010
 Mill 33 yrs Arabian-PPID, IR & Pacemaker Dependent
Jack 22 yrs TN Walker- IR & RAO

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jennifer%20and%20Millionairess

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=831

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jennifer%20and%20Jack-TN%20Walker


Re: Protocol for Re-testing ACTH

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Because Gilligan was tested during the seasonal rise, his results may be falsely elevated. There are no side effects of taking him off unless he really needed it in which case you may see increased drinking, lethargy, pot belly after two weeks or so. It's very important to do the test at home. Shipping will falsely elevate ACTH. Do the TRH test again. Repeat insulin.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Triple Crown Golden Flax - Gone bad?

Rita Chavez
 

Hi Amy,

I've been buying the 2 lb bag of Organic ground flax seeds from my local Walmart store. I give him 1/2 cup twice a day and the bag lasts about 10 days. And the best part - it's only $4/bag! 

--
Rita C. and Stetson (2001 Tennessee Walking Horse/Gelding, diagnosed IR)
Aiken, South Carolina USA
June 2021

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=265166 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Rita%20C.%20and%20Stetson

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